Myths And Realities

[mdante99]

... in response to Yup!, posted by Jeff S on Dec 19, 2001

Your experience should be worth reading for all.

Mark

[KenC]

... in response to Nothing like a good Myth Discussion, posted by MarkInTx on Dec 19, 2001

Mark,
Another good post!  Reaching a 10 year (or in my case a 20 year) milestone in a marriage is way over rated!  Other than my children,whom I will charish for a lifetime, I would gladly trade the 20+ years of marriage to my first AW for the last 3 years with Lena.  Maybe it takes a mature man to understand that the quality of life is a most precious commodity.  My life with Lena is making up for many many lean years I wasted in my youth.  LOL.  Take care.
KenC

[mdante99]

... in response to Nothing like a good Myth Discussion, posted by MarkInTx on Dec 19, 2001

You are absolutely right Mark in Texas.

What is the worst case that can happen?

That she decides that marriage was not a good idea. We have already spent almost one year together; the happiest year of my life. Even if it all ended tomorrow I would have been better for it.

For me there has been very little finanical costs from the get go.

I am NOT a vindictive guy; if she wanted to go back, I would help her regain her previous life. There is no point in bearing grudges. We both recognize that cross cultural marriages are not easy and have agreed to part amicably if it does not work out.

Where is the rub? At least I don't see it.

Mark

[micha1]

... in response to Myths And Realities, posted by mdante99 on Dec 18, 2001

Myth no. 9, did gave me a good laugh.   Women, money and shopping. ohlala.

Everyone knows about the bell shape curve, right.
Well in North America, in our century, this is how it goes.
15% of the marriage will go on very well, forever.
15% of the marriage will go wrong, right from the word go.
For the 70% left of the marriage.  This is how it will go.  From the first day to two years, she will be listening to
you.  From two to five years, you will be listening to her.
From five to seven years, the neighbors will be listening.
From the seventh year on the lawyer will be listening to the both of you.
Then the judges will be listening.
It is only a fact of life, a reality, it is the hardest thing in the world to have two of the finest machine made, work
together in harmony.
I can only repeat, what I have said many time before, here and everywhere,  when you are wrong admit it,
when she is wrong keep your mouth shut

[Dan]

... in response to Myths And Realities, posted by mdante99 on Dec 18, 2001

Wife 20 years your junior.

Is that your message Mark?!?

Hardly responsible advice ace.

- Dan

[Charles]

... in response to So - For a Mere $2000 and 6 Months Inves..., posted by Dan on Dec 18, 2001

I am impressed as to how he did this.  The visas and AOS alone cost $500.  I guess he chinched on the ring as well!  I think you should plan on spending more.  It is very premature to judge a marriage a success after knowing someone for only a year, but it's nice that they're happy at this point.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Myths And Realities, posted by mdante99 on Dec 18, 2001

$2000!  Sounds like you got a great deal on the Russian antique road show.  I'm at $10K and counting.  

Handling money should be no problem.  Tell her to add 1 or 2 extra zeros to everything.  

RW's comment on her friend's success rate was comforting and so are the experiences of guys on this board.  I assume none of them are in a trailer park.  

Most scammers are not good at it and nothing to worry about if you have some common sense.

[cherokee]

... in response to Myths And Realities, posted by mdante99 on Dec 18, 2001

especially the last part and anybody with a RW/UW wife knows exactly what you are talking about. I'll be in touch with you for a 2 tickets from the east coast to Kiev for late April. Let me know of any deals:)
regards!

[snowwego]

... in response to Myths And Realities, posted by mdante99 on Dec 18, 2001

well said mark I should have all my freinds read this bcause they think I am crazy and that my girl is just trying to get here. I know different Rcik

[LP]

... in response to Re: Myths And Realities, posted by snowwego on Dec 18, 2001

...other's experiences are different. Unlike Mark, I *firmly* believe the vast majority of these women's priority is a visa. I have little choice but to believe this because so many have confessed that to me after the ball was no longer in play. Yes, they want a good man but they have all told me the priority is to *get* here first and if it doesn't work out they may have other options. Options that are non existent as long as they stay there and they are willing and able to assume the hassle in the new country should it not. After all, it's way better than what most of them left behind.

They ain't stupid, these chix. For me, to say the visa is not the first priority for most (not all, but most) is bordering on humorous. I long ago simply accepted this, knowing it's the largest part of the equation for most. Better than to bury your head in the sand about it, at least she and you will be clear on that point. I really don't see a problem with it as long as you're aware. Besides, it's simply one less game to play with her and certainly doesn't mean you can't also be in love.

Expensive? No, one can do it on the cheap. Go over on a social, pick a girl and bring her back. Would you boast about doing that? Considering whats involved, six months seems not so distant from it, at least to me. Whats that you say? Why waste more time when you just "know" she's "the one"? Hmmm...I shouldn't have to explain the problem with that logic, nor could I to someone who is blinded by that situation.

So you just *know* your girl is not trying for a visa? How could you possibly know for sure? Ya, I know, it only happens to other guys, right? Never would *my* sweetie stick it to me, it's not possible. Me thinks maybe you be a tad blinded by her light.

Younger women? No thanx, I've had nothing but younger women for 15 years and they are hands down no good for the longterm. As always, people talk  about the present, no one wants to think about the future ramifications of marrying a young one. It's living on borrowed time, sacrificing the longterm future for the sake of the short term present. Your day will likely come, sure as the clock ticks. I'll admit, they sure are fun for awhile though.

I also don't believe the majority are scammers, if you mean they are workin you for some cash. Have to define scammers, they *all* are scammers in some ways, as are the rest of us. lol..Personally, me thinks they are all evil, they simply chose not to be evil on certain days.

Other experiences? They *are* unfaithful, especially with their own kind. Best keep them well away from FSU guys after they come, I have close experience with this. They can also be the best liars known to man, they know how to work a man who's in control and self confident. Imagine how well lost souls (imho, the majority of men involved in this), can be manipulated. Look at the translated letter in the post below. Nuff said...

I agree with Mark on most other things, except that success is not measured in a year. Every one who marries today swears it'll last. Every guy here who married an A/W probally swore together with her it would last on that day also. Nuff said there also.

Mark seems to have gotten a "good one" but then again, how would he know for sure? I've known some who were better at deception than that, one who planned the entire thing from day one. She was successful too, and left alot of carnage in her tracks.

Dont't get me wrong, they aren't all bad. Like Mark, I could go on and on about the good traits they have but good seldom hurts anybody. Better focus on the bad because that's what'll do you in, and there's *lots* of bad about those there, trying to get here. The odds of duplicating Mark's "success" at this point pretty good for most of us, lets talk about 5 years down the road.

lol..Course, those are only my experiences, your's may be different. However, simply considering the odds is all it takes to see a bit more clearly. If I were you, I'd be afraid, and for good reason. Don't let a pretty face or some coy words push that fear aside or you'll be circling the drain even sooner than you thought it possible. There really *is* one born every minute, and to think you could never be one of 'em is just plain loco.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Like the man said...., posted by LP on Dec 18, 2001

I think that there is no doubt that the "Visa" is part of the package.

I also think that the better off a woman in the FSU is, the less the Visa matters.

However, I want to add this point...

One thing I have learned through my marriage(s) here in the US is that the "package" is always what you are judged on.

My ex told me that she loved being my wife... but she didn't want to be my daughter's mother. Those are harsh, and yet truthful, words.

She loved me, she said. But not my daughter.

Here's the problem: My daghter is a part of me. You cannot really love me without loving my daughter. So did she love me? The point is that you have to love "the package". Life does not permit us to order ala carte... you have to order the whole blue plate special.

OK... so, whether we want to admit it or not, the Visa is part of the package. Part of what makes me appealing is that I live in America, and make what is perceived to be a lot of money, etc.

I don't see that as a bad thing. I'm not misreprsenting my life. If she looks at the life and thinks: "It would be great to be a part of that" then I say, great, finally I have the package working for me, rather than against me.

So, I don't think the Visa is a bad thing. I consider it one of my "Good Qualities". My age, perhaps, is a bad one. Or whatever. The point is that in the end, for all of the talk of pixie dust and magic, it has been my experience that Love and Marriage is transactional:

Does it meet your needs: Physically, emotionally, and spiritually?

The more it does... the happier you are, and the more time you spend "talking with the angels."

The more it doesn't... the more you'll be likely to be talking to the lawyers...

IMHO

[Jeff S]

... in response to The Visa Thing, posted by MarkInTx on Dec 19, 2001


.. "Life does not permit us to order ala carte... you have to order the whole blue plate special"

-- Jeff S.

[KenC]

... in response to Like the man said...., posted by LP on Dec 18, 2001

LP,
Good post.  I also like the one below about the foiled windows too!  LOL.  Some thoughts and questions for you:

Visas being the priority- I agree that this may be the truth for most RW involved with agencies, but not all.  Don't you think there is a direct relationship between the amount of desperation of the woman's life and her "need" for a visa?  Mark's wife, as did mine, had a good standard of living back home, so their "need" for a "better life" was much less important than most RW.  I have always maintained that "desperate people do desperate things."  I don't feel that this is an exception to that rule.  I can only imagine how tempting ANY AM might be to a RW trying to live on $200/month.  Now if you factor a child into this situation, the "desperation factor" could go off the charts.  Maybe the better the standard of living, the less tempting the visa?  Hmmmm.

On Scammers- Pretty obvious for any man that has a fair amount of experience with women in general.  No scammer could ever compare with an AW.

On "lost souls"- (Great reference BTW)  This is where this "process" really gets screwed up.  You take a desperate AM and match him up with a desperate RW and who knows what will happen?  The man is desperate for a woman's attention, emotional support and sex and the woman is desperate for financial support and stability.  This type of match is a total crap shoot at best.

On "success" at 6 months-  I agree with you that it is way too early to declare a marriage a success at that point.  The first year of marriage is usually a very difficult adjustment time, and even more so in the case of a RW married to an AM.  It sure is nice to hear positives coming from Mark while he is in the midst of these "adjustments".  My wife and I will be sharing our third Christmas together and we have to be getting past the age of your oldest pair of underwear.  LOL  Take care and have a great holiday season.
KenC

[LP]

... in response to Re: Like the man said...., posted by KenC on Dec 19, 2001

...Sometimes when I later read my stuff, I think "Man, this guy is a jerk"...lol. My posts have a sharper edge than what I really feel because I'm not very good at expressing myself.

I will say that most of my experience is with Ukrainians, and that most of them turned out to be the "lower class" (for lack of a better word). Low paying or no jobs, economicly challeneged, ect. I'm sure this has skewed my opinions.

I don't feel there is really anything wrong with that. I can't blame them for wanting out if life is tough. I mean, who doesn't want a better life? Just because they want out doesn't mean they can't be in love with you for being a good guy. This entire visa/money/love thing doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, it isn't neccesarily one or the other. Guys only needs to weed out the ones where it is, thats the real trick, and accept the rest as simply reality.

I neglected to mention I know several, including a few Russians, who are not very desperate to leave at all. You're right, it seems to be associated to how bad they have it at home. My long relationship with a Russian doctor is a good example, she's not nearly as desperate as some Ukie's I know and her focus seems to be the appeal we have as husbands vrs whats availible to her at home. She really is a sweetheart, I must be loco to let her go but thats another story.

I'll also say I've met a few who are pure gold as people, but they are in the minority. Again, the doc comes to mind. The point is, if they were all so rotten to the core I would've moved on long ago. It's these few that keep me interested. It's the old diamonds in the coal mine, the old needle in the haystack thing that keeps me going.

I'd also like to say that being a lost soul is not meant to be a slam, we all have to deal with it at times. I've been there myself and although I'm happy now, it taught me some very valuable lessons. As long as it doesn't screw up one's thinking *too* much, it's a normal reaction to stress.

As for the common thinking of "I'll be happy with 10 years with a younger woman and worry about 60 when I'm 60" logic, my problem with that comes from the three multi-year relationships I've had with younger women. After you've been through those failures and all the stress they cause, it makes you look at it a different way. (No wonder I'm a tad cynical, eh?)

I think many guys here don't really understand how bad it can be, they haven't been smacked around enough by multiple attempts at a large age difference. Again, my experiences at work and I doubt a youngster from another culture will make any difference. In fact, it'll probally make it worse. The bottom line is that I want a woman to be the last one, not the next one, I've had enough of the games the young one's eventually all play.

Three years, eh? Good for you. Hmmm...It's getting to where I'm gonna have to move you into another catagory, the cutting of slack one. lol....Not many make it there.

Btw, in my line off work the underware seldom makes it past a few weeks. :-)  

Happy holidays to you both....

[yoe]

... in response to Err...thanx....., posted by LP on Dec 19, 2001

did the ghost of FSU past, present and furture come to visit. Hey dude why don't you come anmd visit for the holidays. But do not come to Lafayette or you will be a 100 miles off track-I am glad to see you have relaxed and enjoying yourself much more. Merry Christmas dude. I guess I must find another whipping post.
Your buddy
Joe