R/W letters concerning $ problems

[deatchef]

I have been writing to Luyba; along with at least 5 other u/w for the past 3 weeks. Not long enough in my opinion to send $ for anything. Experienced members and veterans, Please read the following and let me know if I should be worried about this one (and most others that complain in one way or another about $ issues w/ e-mail or English lessons or translation fees, in the 1st few (4-5) e-mails...
Luyba writes:
"After your letter, I decided to start learning English seriously. Your
opinion is very important for me, dear John. I believe that one day we
will see each other eye to eye and I want to make an impression on
you. So, I decided to take courses of English. I made up my mind  to
search for help in our club, as the prices here are very reasonable.
And I found out that the two month course costs 270$. I was very much
upset, dear John! I want to learn English properly, as I want to make
impression on you. But I have no such a lot of money! It's a pity. And
I'm very much disappointed, I must tell you. I don't know what to do,
I'm at a loss...
I hope my letter won't be boring for you, dear.
I'll be waiting for your reply, dear John.
With the warmer thoughts, your Lyuba.

[bradley]

... in response to R/W letters concerning $ problems, posted by deatchef on Jan 17, 2002

it looks like everybody likes to comment on this question.
.. this kind of request from this kind of situation
[considering what you told] is probably a try to cheat you.
so just moving on, is NOT the fair thing to do.
you should use up some of this person's time and email costs a bit, as a penalty for what they try to do.
i have read this plan here on this board before and it is worth repeating.
write that you will send the western union cash.
but don't do it. and don't do it SLOWLY,
try to trade a few email questions back and forth before you send out a ten number PIN. [8.....].
when they complain it did not work say,
sorry i just misread it by one number and
send them back TO W-U. again. [w/new pin]
if they email back again you could try a third number.
or just say that you have changed your mind.
 
 

[WmGo]

... in response to scammers need lessons, posted by bradley on Jan 18, 2002

scammers should be reported to the various web sites that post scammer lists as well as to the "person's" agency.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to R/W letters concerning $ problems, posted by deatchef on Jan 17, 2002

Get a girl that knows English already unless you're fluent in Russian.  If you can't communicate, you won't get a decent relationship going.  That cuts out one scamming approach.

Basic scams:
1) Send money for English lessons.  English lessons should cost about $3 each (that's what I've read anyway).
2) I love you so send me money to travel to meet you.  I want to meet you anywhere but here, so send lots of money.
3) My beloved mother/father/child/grandmother is sick and needs an operation.
4) I want to come to the USA on a tourist visa but I need to have enough assets in the bank to get approval.  
5) My internet expenses are more than I can afford, so please send me money.
6) Please send me money to get a passport.  
7) They also might have your interpreter suggest a very nice gift.
At least one guy said the father did all the writing instead of the girl and he didn't find that out until he got to Ukraine.  That was one wasted trip.  

Oh, before you make any trip plans you should have called the girl on the phone and verified her address.  Many of their scams are pretty obvious.  Any more good ones?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to That's one scam, here's some more, posted by BubbaGump on Jan 17, 2002

If you're changing money on the street in Unraine or Russia you give a bunch of $20 bills to the guy.  He counts out some money and then says he doesn't have enough.  He gives you a roll of $20 bills back but it has some blank paper wrapped with real bills instead of all your 20s.  He goes inside and never comes back.

I should not have implied a woman is scamming you if they ask you for money to pay for emails.  Find out what is a reasonable cost for email.  I think the cost in the email below was a reasonable number.

[John K]

... in response to That's one scam, here's some more, posted by BubbaGump on Jan 17, 2002

Had one woman named Rano Kabilova develop breast cancer by her 5th or 6th email.  I sent her a few dollars and told her at the same time I had found someone else (anyone but her).  She thanked me and mysteriously her breast cancer went immediately into remission.  Go figure.

Had another beautiful blond try to hit me up for a couple of grand to help pay for her college.  Sorry, but it college was a couple of grand per semester over there, everyone would be stupid.  I called her on it and never heard from her again.

Internet/email expenses may be legitimate.  It depends on the cost and if you are dealing with the person direct or through an agency.  Some agency costs were prohibitive ($5 per page, and additional $6 per page for translation).  Others were ok with well managed accounting.  The advantage of paying the agency up front is that you aren't putting any financial onus on the lady, except for the bus fare she pays to visit the agency.

Regardless of what you hear, internet expenses can add up over in Ukraine.  If the lady is footing the bill instead of you, you can expect that she will be charged per letter and more if she has it translated.  Expect at least a dollar or two per letter.  Not a lot to us, but to some of these girls, it can be a real burden.

My wife was one of these girls.  As a test, I sent her $40 to see what she would do with it.  She never asked for any more money until we decided to get serious many months later.  Only after we decided to concentrate only on each other, did I start to support her and her family.

As always, this is simply my 2¢ and strictly my opinion.  Your mileage may vary...

[WmGo]

... in response to That's one scam, here's some more, posted by BubbaGump on Jan 17, 2002

Another: "my dog needs an operation"

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: That's one scam, here's some more, posted by WmGo on Jan 18, 2002

Ha. I'm waiting for my EX to pull that one on me. Her dog (140 lb Great Pyrenees) really does need an operation, something wrong with her hips.

[slimjimco]

... in response to Re: Re: That's one scam, here's some mor..., posted by Michael B on Jan 18, 2002

nt

[WmGo]

... in response to R/W letters concerning $ problems, posted by deatchef on Jan 17, 2002

Unfortunately this lady (assuming it is a real female personage) is dishonest. She is trying to take you for a ride. Here are the reasons this is obvious:

1. A good FSUW would never, ever, ever mention the subject of money. Period.

2. If she eventually did after a few months of continous emails, it would only be to hint at the need for a little help with that expense - which can be taken care of by $20 or less per month ( a lot less if she uses the Internet cafe).

3. In Ukraine, English lessons cost $2 to $5 per lesson. Each lesson is typically two hours. Lessons are only provided one to two times per week, as the student has much study and practice to do on their own between lessons. So a month of lessons would only cost $20 to $40.

NEVER send money to a woman you have never met in person.

NEVER send a small sum for email expense *unless* you have spoken with her on the telephone at least a few times and are preliminarily satisfied that she is a real person, is legit, etc.

Frankly, the lady's letter is not even very slick. There is absolutely no substance to it - either in making inquiry to your inner world and outer life, or revealing either of hers. She simply puts out the bait to see if a sucker will bite.

[Stan B]

... in response to $ problems, posted by WmGo on Jan 17, 2002

My wife took the least expensive lessons in her town and they were $100/month for 3 hrs and 5 days/week. And she said there were other classes that were more expensive. And her friends in the larger cities often have to pay more, so I'd be suprised if there are many places that you can find them cheaper.

[WmGo]

... in response to cost of lessons, posted by Stan B on Jan 18, 2002

With an average monthly wage in Ukraine ranging from $40 to $60 in most parts of the country, it is very easy to obtain English lessons for $2 per hour. It looks like you paid even less:

3 hours per lesson times 5 days a week = 15/hrs. wk
There are 4.3 weeks in a month. 4.3 times 15 = 64.5 hours per month. At $100, that comes out to $1.55 per hour, a good deal indeed.

[John K]

... in response to cost of lessons, posted by Stan B on Jan 18, 2002

My wife took a couple of them in Sevastopol.  They were a waste of time.  She ended up taking lessons one-on-one from a private tutor for about $50 a month. It made a lot of difference to her.  Her English was manageable when she came to America.  

The Cambridge courses were a joke.  The teachers are paid to present the materials, not to teach the students.  If a student happens to learn something, it is a fortunate mistake.  What's sad is one of her teachers was actually an American, and he was the worst of the bunch.  He was more interested in getting a piece than teaching well...

[Stan B]

... in response to Sounds like the Cambridge Courses, posted by John K on Jan 18, 2002

has a business and language school in Chernivtsi. And when she got her she spoke very well. And for 6o hrs per month that works out to less than a $1.70/hr., which I think is a bargain.

[coaster881]

... in response to R/W letters concerning $ problems, posted by deatchef on Jan 17, 2002

The lady I met wanted to learn better english. She told me the courses were a waste of money and the best route was to use college students studying english.
Guess how much I had to give her? $30!! That's all she would take because she said she would only have to pay $1 per lesson.
At $30, I can afford to get scammed.
By the way... I played the poor lower-income guy on my trip. Told her I was going through a tough divorce and had very little money. I told her it would be years before I'd get on my feet again. Good way to find out what they're really interested in. She spent the whole week with me and I took her to dinner ONCE. She even tried to help pay for that.
The point is... I agree with all the guys who have said real Russian women do not feel comfortable asking for money. They don't even want to accept it when it's offered. Period.