you really want the rest of the story.....

[Mark H]

Okay Jack,
You were correct in your post that I was gracious and did not say anything bad or mean in my post. I gave credit where credit was due. Now the rest of the story.

Jack paints a pretty picture speaking about this beautiful apartment, many girls, and Galina working her tail off......NOT. I'm sorry to inform the board that this was not the case. I wrote Jack for TWO months asking about my trip to Dnepropetrovsk. Each time he had nothing to say. I STILL have all the emails and will make them available to anyone who wishes to see them. They are dated and timed. Repeated inquiries BY ME to jack about Dnep. There were no ladies lined up, I kept trying to ask Jack about lining up ladies and he said don't worry about it. He suggested I go to pay sites and get some addresses. I asked if Galina had a website, I was told it would be up by mid december...I was leaving 23 december so I would at least get a look. Never happened. I found an agency in Dnep that had alot of beautiful ladies and a couple that I had written to. Unfortunately, they HATE jack and Galina in that city and that agency is off limits. Before you rebuke this Jack, I have the emails from you to support everything I have posted. I didn't want to get into it this way but you leave me no choice. You have painted a picture that I am a selfish person who does "what he wants" at the expense of others. I do what I want but NEVER at the expense of others. Face the facts, you put together a piss poor trip with no details, no girls, no contacts and expected me to just show up in Dnep. When I met a few girls I liked in Kiev, I decided to stay in Kiev. Galina wasn't standing on a frozen  platform like one person suggested. She was notified in plenty of time. There was no problem. As for the flat not being rented.....that's another story.

My flat. When I decided to stay in Kiev, Jacks landlady told me that I "must move out of that apartment and into a more expensive one". I had to move because "another guy was coming that night and had to have the flat". I said no problem and called my friend in Kiev, she said I could use her flat. Interesting how Jacks people changed their minds when I had my own flat. Suddenly, the flat I was in was instantly available again for the same price. I said okay and stayed another night. I was upset with this and felt I was being lied to about some guy coming. Either way, I stayed. The next day I went to my friends flat. I stayed there one night and new years needed another flat, they gouged me for almost double the price. Thanks jack. You see, I wanted to keep our business civil and give credit where credit is due. Your company provides good service and will take care of it's clients. I don't think it's big enough.

As for 15 or 20 girls from Tamara's agency, no way. There were only 2 or 3 girls between the ages of 26 and 31. The rest were under 23 or over 35. No thanks. Nice spin on Milena but she was very interested. I have her emails to prove it also. She had many photos of me, I have those emails also. Alot of sweet words and sweet letters. Nice try jack but it won't work. As you always say to trolls.....I have the emails for proof. I figured you to try to spin things so I kept EVERY email we ever exchanged. Now, who got who? As I said, your company is a good company, i never slammed your company. You trying to spin me into some monster who doesn't care about people was your mistake. Now, I don't support you or your company. I don't wish ill things to happen to you or your company. As for severing our ties, believe me they were severed long before I received your ridiculous email. It's interesting how NO ONE in Ukraine thought my canceling my trip to Dnep was a big deal...no one but you. I don't know what kind of deal you have worked out with Galina but I don't think any man is REQUIRED to go to any city or to do anything. Trust me, write to ANY company/agency on the net and they will accomodate your wishes. Everyone now sees that firstdream.com will not. Good luck in your business and I wish you well.

To bystanders.....relax and good luck on your trips. Jack will do you good but understand, it is not free. Not for me, not for anyone. I don't dislike Jack, I just think he's a used car salesman.

Mark H.

[BarryM]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

It seems that very few people on here realize the way Jack works in assisting one in finding a RW/UW bride. Most people on here think that contacting agencies and looking through catalogs is the main focus, but from what I have come to understand, that should be plan B or C.

Jack stresses personal newspaper ads in Ukraine and Russia as a primary campaign months prior to planning the first trip. The agency contacts are secondary and from what he explained to me, they are usually plan B for someone who is going to meet one or two girls they have been writing and things fall through. Because of that, you have unpredictable results with the "blind" dates. It's stupid to think that at a moments whim, Jack can put together a full trip with dates already lined up turnkey without any problems. That's basically what he did for Mark, and you see the results. Without proper preparation you are not going to be very successful.

Mark doesn't have any cause to complain. He was told straight that he should be better prepared and he didn't listen. When I read his trip report, that was the first impression I got. Jack is not a Mail-Order-Bride vending machine that you travel to Ukraine or Russia, put in your $15, make and selection, and out comes your mate for life. That is the impression I got from Mark's trip report. He is complaining because he did not like the flavors of the "candy" he selected from the Jack "vending machine"... and how many of the girls did he send emails or write letters to prior to making the trip? It doesn't seem like that many now does it?

Many months back, Mark posted that he had a very unsuccessful trip and he stated that he wanted to use Jack's methods the next time. Well, he didn't listen to Jack's advice. Now he's whining about how lousy his trip was. I have no sympathy. Jack does not deserve any blame because Jack delivered. Even Mark admits that.

I've been paying attention to this board and to the many posters who are successful in their ventures. It seems that many here have success from many methods, but Jack's methods are more consistently successful but they are not for everyone, especially the impatient.

-blm

[Mark H]

... in response to Re: Missing the scheme of things, posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

Where do you get the whining from? Wake up. As for your analysis, very weak. There's a reason Jack uses agencies for plan B and C....his contacts are too weak to be plan A. As for the vending machine, get a life. That's ridiculous, fact of the matter is that Jack's vending machine was empty. That's the beef. I realize it is fruitless to contradict anything Jack has ever said or done to his faithful cronies, no worries. I wish you well but you really should cease telling others "what they did and did not agree to". How many trips have you done using Jack's system? None, thought so. just another guy on the sideline throwing stones on a subject he knows nothing about. Have fun.

Mark H.

[BarryM]

... in response to Re: Re: Missing the scheme of things, posted by Mark H on Jan 13, 2002

I suppose I could deconstruct your trip report, some of your rebuttals, Jacks responses and arguments, and so on. I could also hit the archives and deconstruct your old posts on your previous trips, what you posted verbatum, and so on... the same with Jacks past posts as well.

I could probably win the argument on pure rhetorical argument and logical analysis, but I don't think that would be constructive. I do read the posts very carefully, including yours and I have a fairly good memory. I don't understand your complaints against Jack and I think you go to far when you accuse him of being a used car salesman. I've known used car salesman and other people in sales and they usually don't say no to a buck.

To quote Jack directly:
"As you will re-call Mark I was not in favor of you making this trip when you did and with the little time to prepare as you had. And after voicing my opinion, you decided on going anyway at this time and just to consider it a little trip and for me to do whatever I could for you."

I don't think a used car salesman would give you such advice. Those statements can be backed up by Jack's posts on here prior to your trip where he advises forum participants to wait until spring before going wife hunting over there. It seems that you are making the same mistakes you did on your prior trips to the FSU, but now Jack is involved. I can understand why you are upset because Jack declines to do business with you now. A used car salesman would always want to get more money out of you... I don't think Jack fits the profile.

You're right that I haven't been able to make the trip over there yet. See, when I started researching this quest back in October of 2000, I was in very good financial shape and my consulting company was making lots of money. Around that time, the "Dot Bomb" hit and, although I was not in the "Dot Bomb" business directly, I have been affected by the fallout. I was doing ok until I experienced a business dropoff in late June,and early July. I would have been on the October tour Jack put together if that hadn't happened. Then of course, the attack on Sept. 11. One of my clients had their main offices in the World Trade Center. As far as I know, the company no longer exists. I have lost 70% of my revenues since October of 2000. I am currently in a holding pattern until business picks up, but I'm still preparing and learning for the future trip. I doubt that I will be able to go this spring, but I may make the summer or fall tour this year.

I'm sorry if my criticisms of you seems like throwing stones, but I really don't understand your complaints about Jack. I have the impression that, although you've been on this board for a long time, you haven't been paying attention to the good information that has been presented; especially from Jack. Thus, my criticisms on your posts here.

I understand that it's an ego and personality thing, but perhaps you should do a little soul searching about your RW/UW quest? This may not be the right thing for you to do, as you have stated in the past.

I wish you well.

-blm

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Well, Mark..., posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

Hard to argue with your thought train.

[micha1]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Perhaps am I wrong,  but from what it is written here.  It my personal opinion, that you knew you were going to
get lucky in Kiev and the rest of the trip went over the board.
So a couple of beautiful meals along with some nice evenings, right.
Nothing is wrong with this.  So why come back and beef, you are over 21 and vaccinated, right.
Perhaps are you mad because the trip was so short, now you do know what to do.  Good luck.
You had a hell of a good trip, many more coming I hope for you.

[coaster881]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Jack had taken the time to arrange for me to meet an agency owner during my trip.

Like you, I found a special girl on the first day (the one I flew over to meet). I wanted to spend more time with her so I didn't need to use the agency Jack recommended.

Here's where we're different... I knew this lady had spent time preparing for my visit and I knew Jack had spent his time making the arrangements for me. I didn't need the service but I felt I owed this nice lady something for her time.

My solution was asking her to escort me to an internet cafe for 1/2 hour for which I paid her slightly more than what I would have paid for an introduction. She spent a total of 1 hour with me and she was paid $20. I think that was fair to her and I got to meet another contact.

I guess my point is this, If you say you're going to do something, you should follow through. These are families who depend on our money.

I'm not defending Jack in any way. I'm trying to defend the people who count on our money. Jack is their rep here in the states but they are the ones hurt.

You have valid points and I have no intention of arguing with anyone other than Ryan. Personaly, you've all been of great help to me and I can't afford to tick any of you off.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

I don't know about the rest of you... but I find this riveting.

What I like is that no one has really started senseless name-calling. (Well, except for that used-car salesman crack...)

It is a healthy debate, and there is some interesting subtext...

What we see here are two completely different approaches.

Mark is a "do-it-yourselfer". He's made that clear for over a year.

Jack is more than an agency... he's a system. He has a definite way that he thinks you should go about things.

When the do-it-yourself guy decides to implement the system... and then loses faith in the system and "calls an audible" the results are predictible.

But interesting to read, because they both make some valid points. I like to hear why Mark though the system wasn't working. And I like to hear Jack explain why it would have if he had just had a little faith and stuck with it.

This is like the quarterback who calls for a bootleg on 3rd and 4, and gets tackled one yard shy of the first down.

Coach is furious: "What are you doing you idiot??? I called a pass play!"

QB: "Are you nuts? The defense was set to blitz and I had an opening in the middle..."

And we're like the audience listening to the argumant, caught on the sidelines by a hidden microphone...

[EARL]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Reading both sides now as an objective observer I have to side with Jack on this one. Mark you basically renegned on your trip. Kiev was the appetizer to your meal in DNK. Not showing up is a cardinal "No-NO" in any endevour. "IF" you had gone to DNK and "suffered" the same fate as Kiev, well then yes by all means you have grounds to complain. But Jack would haveto be completely out of his mind, knowing that you are a long time poster on this site and had tipped off the board on several occassions that you are using Jack's services to go to Ukraine, for him not to take good care of you. The other issues are basically "he said -she said", but stiffing people that worked and planned out a trip for you and then pointing fingers doesn't cut it in my book of etiquette. Be a man about it, say "Hey I screwed up" and learn for next time.
An apology from you is what's due after all is said and done.

[Mark H]

... in response to Re: you really want the rest of the stor..., posted by EARL on Jan 12, 2002

Earl,
There are things I cannot and will not go into on the forum regarding this trip. Jack paints a pretty picture that I "stiffed" the world on this trip. Not true. As for the apology.....remember the cold day in #$#%# saying?  Not a chance. As I have said before, I have no beef with his company or it's services. They do good to alot of men. I have no beef with that.

Here's the scenario. You're planning a trip, your so called "friend" is setting it up. You ask repeatedly about girls in this city you know nothing about. No answer. You ask repeatedly about this galina person, to contact her, anything...no answer. You ask about girls you've seen on other sites, can't go there. You ask about apartments, nothing final and no prices set in stone. All you know is that you leave on a train at 9 PM to go to some city where someone will pick you up. When you arrive in Kiev, the guy who picks you up at the airport had a total of 3 hours to prepare for your arrival. That's right, 3 hours. I thought that was strange. I guess Rostik was going to pick me up but then couldn't so this other kid Ilya picked me up. He found out about me a grand total of 3 hours before I got there. Ilya is excellent, best kid you could ever work with. Jack's got a good employee in that guy but he had no notice of my coming. Does that sound prepared? Organized? This worried me. We went to my flat, $50 bucks a night and no where near the Kreshatyk street. I could have got several apartments from several companies very near Kreshatik for $50 bucks a night. I wasn't impressed. The satelite TV didn't work, the VCR didn't work, the TV got 2 channels. The building wasn't secure, open to anyone that wanted to come in. Only during my 3rd day there was a security door being installed. I wasn't impressed but I didn't say a word or complain. Waiting for the train I went to the lunch with Milena....left a very bad taste in my mouth. Now Jack spins it...won't work. I went to the first agency and it was a joke, I didn't say anything and tried to have a good time. HOWEVER, I have friends in Kiev and didn't want to venture out of the city with Jack's company. I wrote and told him I was having such a good time in Kiev I didn't want to leave. I thought that would not be a problem, why would it? Or is it that I'm daddy warbucks for his people in this city? Sorry, not playing that. So, I decided to stay in Kiev. It's no different than a guy meeting the perfect lady and saying "why should I spend the next 3 days away from her?" Would you? let's say you met the woman of your dreams on the first day, would you leave her to go to another city? Of course not, that's the nature of this pursuit. When you find a gem, you stick with her. Why look more? I liked one girl I met the first day..very much. I didn't want to leave, so I didn't. Is that a crime? According to Jack it is. The average salary is $80 bucks a month and I had sent $75 to Dnep to reserve a flat. They kept the money, what's the problem? A months salary isn't enough? Whatever.

Anyway, I've devoted enough time to this soap opera today. Good luck to you and everyone else. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apology. The only person I would apologize to would be Galina but she's not here. I would also tell her that I had no idea of what she had done.

As for me, I graduate in just over 3 months. I may just start a rival agency in Ukraine that GIVES services away for free. A real FREE SERVICE. Hmmmm.

Mark H.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Re: you really want the rest of the ..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

You met a great girl on day one in Kiev?

Where did she come from?

FirstDream?

Or somewhere else?

[Mark H]

... in response to Hey Mark! One thing you still haven't me..., posted by MarkInTx on Jan 12, 2002

mark,
Not from Firstdream, somewhere else. I met her through Tamara's agency. She's a nice lady, did you meet her?

Mark H.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Hey mark, long time no hear...., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Tamara? Nope... haven't met anyone in Kiev yet.

When you get a chance, drop me an email.

You still in Spain? Or are you home now?

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: you really want the rest of the stor..., posted by EARL on Jan 12, 2002

Jack is just plain unprofessional just face it.  The guy could have handled this different but he just didn't his ego got in the way.

[BarryM]

... in response to And here we go with the Jack supporters...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

nt