you really want the rest of the story.....

[Ryan]

... in response to You are a punk-assed jerk. /nt, posted by BarryM on Jan 12, 2002

n/t

[odeccaman1]

... in response to You are a punk-assed jerk. /nt, posted by BarryM on Jan 12, 2002

What happened to brotherly Christian love & understanding?

[BarryM]

... in response to Is this part of the Orthodox church prac..., posted by odeccaman1 on Jan 12, 2002

As an Orthodox even I can love and forgive punk-assed jerks like Ryan and I don't even mind telling them so.

-blm

[NK]

... in response to Re: sure, posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

nt

[DE]

... in response to And here we go with the Jack supporters...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Having read both sides of the posts, I see two valid points.  Mark is correct that if he decides to stay in Kiev, it is his choice to do so.  However, he should at the same time realize that if a majority of the work was done in the other city on his behalf, he has nothing to cry about in not having met sufficient ladies in Kiev for a stay longer then planned.  Since he changed the plan, it certainly becomes his responsibility to solve how he will now occupy his free time.  Subsequently blaming Jack for not enough ladies is a failure to take responsibility for his own actions.  In addition, if he cancelled the trip to the other city, he should at least have the common courtsey to realize that a great deal of work may have occured there on his behalf and should at least commpensate those that took the time and effort to arrange for his stay and meetings.  I'm a little surprised that he didn't just go down to some internet cafe and search for online agencies in Kiev.  There's a bunch of 'em and he could have easily meet hundreds of ladies there on a last minute back up plan.  Mark being somewhat experienced in this endeavor should know that if you change plans on a trip with little time to start with, you better have a back up plan ready to implement and not rely on someone else to put a last minute one together for you without sufficient time.

His attitude that he can just continue in the current apartment fails to take into consideration that it could have been rented out after his expected departure.  Having no real back up plan (other then calling his friend) leaves him vunerable to pay whatever the market is willing to bear for a sudden need.  That's just life, deal with it and pay up!

For those who use Jack's service, they should realize that he typically works with small agencies.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  But it may limit your choices.  My experience is that the people he works with are very good and very reliable.  His trips are usually planned to run like a swiss watch.  If you remove or change on of the wheels in the watch, don't expect it to run as you had planned.

Lessons to be learned from all of this:

1)  If you have a plan, stick to it!

2)  Whether you change the plan or not, you have better have a back up plan ready to implement on a moments notice.

3)  You are responsible for your own actions, choices and decisions (period).

4)  If you change the plan, make sure you have sufficient time to implement the back up plan as you are essentially starting from scratch which will eat up a couple of days time to get it fully implemented.

5)  Changing the plan costs more money!  Be prepared to pay for changes.  There are no free rides and changes cost money.

6)  Regardless of whether you use an agency or not, know where all the agencies are in the city you are visiting prior to leaving the USA and make at least an initial contact with them saying that you will be in their city on business and you may be stopping by to visit.  Make no commitments to them but leave the doors open.  Always get their address and phone number prior to leaving the US.  Also, your first order of business is to get a map of the city once you arrive and have someone mark where the agecies are from the addresses you got from the agencies.

7)  One week trips are most often not enough time unless you are returning to see that special lady you've already met and established a relationship with.

 Although you are going there to meet ladies, you must be prepared for failure or things going to heck in a hand basket real quick!  Therefore, you should convince yuourself that the primary purpose, whether its your first trip or fifth trip, is to learn the culture, meet new people and have fun!  Finding that special someone is an extra added bonus (no disappoints that way)!

Finally,

9)  Don't come crying to the PL board when things go to heck because of decisions you made and are responsible for.

[Mark H]

... in response to Thanks for the invitation (way too long ..., posted by DE on Jan 12, 2002

hey Pal,
No one came crying to the PL board. I re read my posts and I don't see where you get the crying, other than Jacks posts. I simply posted a report. I didn't bash anyone, I didn't CRY at all (re read it and you'll see, perhaps). Back up plan, what do you think I had? Of course I did and I executed it....to a tee. I'm not sure where you see that I cried I didn't meet enough girls, I simply said the agency was too small for my taste buds and suggested using a bigger agency to have a larger pool to choose from. No crying, no bashing or bad mouthing. What post did you read?

Mark H.

[BarryM]

... in response to Re: Thanks for the invitation (way too l..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Jack told you that it was a bad idea to even go on the trip from the very beginning. It was the wrong time to go. You should have listened.

-blm

[DE]

... in response to Re: Thanks for the invitation (way too l..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

hey Pal,
You better re-read your post, it was crying, plain and simple.

"I think the agency contacts are very weak. The second agency I went to consisted of a lady who met me in a pub with some books. I went out with 2 of her girls, both professional daters. You see, it costs you $15 bucks to meet one of the girls. They got a good thing going in that a guy spends the $15 bucks, the girls get a great lunch or dinner and the guy is left in the end with nothing"

Sounds like you're crying over $30 and having to pay for lunch?

"you put together a piss poor trip with no details, no girls, no contacts and expected me to just show up in Dnep"

Not crying?

"I had to move because "another guy was coming that night and had to have the flat". I said no problem and called my friend in Kiev, she said I could use her flat. Interesting how Jacks people changed their minds when I had my own flat. Suddenly, the flat I was in was instantly available again for the same price. I said okay and stayed another night. I was upset with this and felt I was being lied to about some guy coming. Either way, I stayed. The next day I went to my friends flat. I stayed there one night and new years needed another flat, they gouged me for almost double the price."

More crying?

"There were no ladies lined up, I kept trying to ask Jack about lining up ladies and he said don't worry about it"

How would you know?  You never went!  Let me know if you need a dry hankerchief.

[Mark H]

... in response to LOL...., posted by DE on Jan 12, 2002

I need a dry hankerchief! Please! Look man, love Jack on your own dime. Sounds like the only person crying around here is you.

Smiling,
Mark H.

[Ryan]

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

But they just don't want to listen...  I know you will probably go away and not post to the board but I will never leave.  I will continue to document these reports and just keep telling the truth.  This guy we are talking about is just plan crazy.  Let the old fat guys use his service....
Ryan

[x]

... in response to It's allright mark I tried to tell this ..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

In the end the truth comes out...

Tiy can fool some of the people all the time,
all of the people some of the time,
but you can not fool all the people all the time

Jack, why is it you are the focus of such discontent on this board.  Why do you make up porkies and false statements to denograte those that challange you and question your "advice" .  Could it be that these people are right???  I thought Marks report was very critical but supportive at the same time....  but you still needed to go on the abuse attack...  I seriously question your response having seen your lies and actions and I know the truth...

Others nay think you are always right....  but many know the truth.  This is not good for business and I can see why??

As Mark said...  Rostiks services YES....  others no...  best advoce is for the girls to find other contacts... and should the guys.

Jack you are your own wost enemy...

[BarryM]

... in response to you guys are not the only ones..., posted by x on Jan 14, 2002

nt

[Mark H]

... in response to It's allright mark I tried to tell this ..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Ryan,
Come on guy don't be so hard on guys in general. Jack's not crazy, he's a business man. The only part I disagree with is coming here and pretending to be a buddy and not a business man. His company fulfilled all it said it would, no problems there. He's out for cash and that is it. Two years ago when he helped Dan and a bunch of other guys it was because he was building his business. The guy isn't stupid. If he showed up here saying "pay me and I'll help" no one would give him the time of day. He took his time and over the course of two years has built up his business. That's fine, the american dream. However, crapping on anyone who doesn't agree or DEMANDING people go places they don't want to go is insane. Also, demeaning and slandering agencies who compete with him is wrong also. His company will take care of you and provide the services offered, I just think he's a control freak that will never control me. Who the heck is any agency to tell you that you MUST go somewhere or else? Screw you I say. So, be cool to the guys looking. If you hate Jack that is fine but try not to make blanket statements Ryan about guys being old and fat, that's not nice and not always the case. I don't read the board enough to know why you hate Jack so much but my tiff with him is my tiff, no one elses. Take care and don't worry about me posting, I've been here LONGER than Jack and don't plan to go anywhere.

Mark H.

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: It's allright mark I tried to tell t..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

You are correct, I should be nicer.  Jack has made me into a troll and I keep playing into it.  It is just that he just lies right to your face that gets me.  But yes I am sorry to everyone for being like I have been.  This board is good place to get information and read some trip report etc.  We all know it is Jacks Place and he get business from here.  It is his jobs to get the people funnel them to his contacts in EU and let it go.  It is his job to defend himself to no end even with personal attacks.  He is unprofessional but I guess that is not a requirement, customer comes first is also not required.

[Mark H]

... in response to No your right...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Ryan,
That's the spirit, don't sweat the small stuff. Jack only makes your life as miserable as you let him. Don't let him. Contribute useful stuff, ask interesting questions, learn phenomenal things but don't lower yourself to his troll baiting tactics. He means well just can't handle anything outside the lines as he has defined them. Move on and grow, leave him in the soil. There are enough guys here who can genuinely help without MONEY involved. Jack is a middleman, bypass him.

Mark H.