Let us learn from other's mistakes

[yoe]

... in response to Let us learn from other's mistakes, posted by KenC on Nov 30, 2002

we need to be more practive. It is good that Ken wants to address the horrors of this ordeal. We tend to look at this fsu dating thing with Disney glasses. I know I did. And, I knew better. So Ken I concure 100% and we who have been there should be the more practical.
Joe

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Let us learn from other's mistakes, posted by KenC on Nov 30, 2002

I agree with KenC and Philb (1) about the forum’s reaction to two extreme stories one on the negative note (2) and another one the positive side (3). I want to throw in my 2 cents worth - about something that has not been really addressed before I presume.

Practically most human emotions are based on behavioral response. There cannot be a fight when only one side only starts and maintains it. It could be seen between 2 dogs barking and one stops and other stops too. On the other extreme, war escalates when both side starts attacking. David is neither a saint nor his girl friend a “b” word. There must be something in David that sparked these behavior in his girlfriend.

What I want to point out is that David’s behavior is not really unique even though it may be an extreme form - Narcissistic Personality Disorder as pointed out by Oscar (4). By living in a society that upholds individual freedom come the trait of selfishness and lack of tolerance for others which in turn leads to higher divorce and failure rates of relationship. I could see those traits rubbed on to me after living more than 15 years in US. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same Natasha from the “horror story” (2) meets the right person and end up being a very loving wife. In fact I have seen just the same. The lady mentioned earlier (5) ended up running away. Eventually she returned back to Ukraine and then found another guy in another country who she married (going on 3+ years now).

In conclusion, what I am trying to say is that all the faults are NOT with the individual but the societal norms and expectations that makes and breaks the relationship. It is very difficult to appreciate this unless one views this society as an outsider. For instance one can appreciate the problems with FSU when we land there since we are an outsider looking at it objectively.

Reference:

1:  http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/80761.html
2: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/80745.html
3: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/80669.html
4: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/80788.html
5: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/80685.html

[WmGo]

... in response to Re: Let us learn from other's mistakes, posted by Ukrainelover on Nov 30, 2002

Some good points.

I want to address the comment in regards to the American cultural trait of individualism: despite its communal nature and history the nations of the former Soviet Union have the highest divorce rates in the world - 65%+. One of my friends there is a 26 year old divorce from St. Petersburg. Her sister is also divored. I asked her if she had ANY friends, neighbors or acquaintances that were not divorced; the answer, after a long pause and reflection, was no. I asked her why this is, and after another long pause and reflection the answer was "I don't know".

There is no doubt that people everywhere on the planet grow more and more selfish, but the science of sociology will not support the proposition that America's culture and history of individualism and freedom is responsible for the high divorce rate of 50%. If this was correct the divorce rate in Russia and Ukraine would be very low.

The problem is spiritual. Few take marriage vows as God himself ordains. Therefore few enter in with the proper spiritual understanding and commitment. If two people (I mean a *man* and a *woman* believe to the core of their being that the Creator is a party to the commitment then divorce would be rare instead of common. It's all about commitment. Selfish people do not subscribe to the notion of commitment. Selfish people are legion and can be found in all countries.

The good thing is that they are easy to spot. As many here have correctly pointed out, it is just a matter of spending enough time in the right places and circumstances to be able to see the reality of the way someone really is.

The Word says that He has a time and a season for everything. If we try to ignore this reality and force something to work that is not a part of His will, we set ourselves up for pain and disappointment.

Peace!

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Culture, posted by WmGo on Dec 1, 2002

I agree WmGo about the similar divorce problems with FSU.

Please note my country of origin is not from anywhere close of the FSU countries even though my user name and some of the posts might seem to favor the FSU related stuff - just my personal bias, I guess.

[WmGo]

... in response to Re:  Culture, posted by Ukrainelover on Dec 1, 2002

10-4

[yoe]

... in response to Re: Let us learn from other's mistakes, posted by Ukrainelover on Nov 30, 2002

nt

[LP]

... in response to Let us learn from other's mistakes, posted by KenC on Nov 30, 2002

........I suspected it was him in the first post Ken. This was confirmed when you did not elaborate after you stated he was real. After reading up on David's disorder I find typical responses to his tirades not appropriate and even ill advised. This would be the case even without his current problems.

I now better understand his past behavior. Add to it the complelety understandable feelings he has due to his current situation and it can be seen that one should be more sympathetic. From what I read, it also seems clear  his relationship would likely have failed even if she was of a kinder, gentler nature.

You're correct. While others are not at the same level of disadvantage there are several lessons to be learned, even if one discounts his affliction. As to those less symathetic, I suggest you try to remember that David is not totaly responsible for his behavior and there but for the grace of God go each one of us.  

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Yes...., posted by LP on Nov 30, 2002

Do Justly, Show Mercy, Walk Humbly.

[WmGo]

... in response to Re: Yes...., posted by Globetrotter on Nov 30, 2002

Micah 6:8 right on!

[LP]

... in response to Re: Yes...., posted by Globetrotter on Nov 30, 2002

.........but I'll still carry a big stick and use it when I see fit. I no longer do in this case.

While Ken may feel David's personality disorder is not a factor, I definately see it as one. As Oscar pointed out, this particular disorder is especially fatal to relationships. To say he simply "picked the wrong girl" is  failing to look at the entire picture.

In perusing the available information on it I was struck by how textbook David appears to be. That's good in a way because he can likely be successfully treated. While I admit that she appears to be no prize herself and that David went out of his way to do things for her, he likely fails to see what he did to contribute to it's demise. His failure to see it is not an indictment, considering his disorder it's understandable.

Ignoring his problem (difficult to do), I feel he's not much different than many involved in this business. He tried filling the soul hole he had too quickly and got burned. Refusing to give up on such a large investment he then did what he thought was "right" to save it. In such a case most relations would be strained. Add in his mental state and it was sure to blow up on him.

Regardless of what her side of the story is the betrayal with another man is simply unacceptable. She should have left him first. Even more so since she is likely aware of his history and lack of experience. That makes her the lowest form of life there is and puts her in the catagory of "some people are alive solely because it's illegal to kill them". I sincerly hope she gets whats coming to her.

Be that as it may, I will no longer beat on a guy who obviously has multiple strikes against him and is unable to recognize a problem that is beyond his control. As long as he continues to look inward and refrains from his "I'll kick your ass" attitude, he gets what understanding and compassion I can muster.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to I will...., posted by LP on Nov 30, 2002

That's great that you understand his problem. I'm sure better than he.  Knowing exactly where you come from, from what I've read about your previous jobs, world travel and experiences...you know the gig, and the game.  Also, remembering your experience of having a friend lose his life over a similar situation, why perpetuate it.  Use your skill, power and prowess to help others, not to rip them apart, which is beneath you.  Would you rather be you, with a great deal of knowledge...worldly speaking, or be able to read books, memorize, take tests well, and write articles for magazines...or know what you know?  I know the answer.

I also carry a big stick.  I've only used it 3 times in my life, and swear, never again.  It's very interesting to see and learn of the many opinions here...jokes, hopes, dreams, very useful information, and how others think.  It's a different world than those I would normally associate with, and my first time contributing to a forum such as this.

You seem to be a very smart fellow...with an attitude, but, I respect you very much.  Just think, when things are tough, you get to go up in an fighter with an 8G negitive rating.  Others only get to go home to 4 bare walls, and wonder where the next paycheck will come from.  

Chill, Chill.  Someone once asked the Hunt Brothers (of silver fame) what they were worth.  Their answer was, "If you know what you're worth, you're not worth enough."

Help, don't hinder.  Also, for David...no matter how smart you think you are, someone is always smarter.

Peace.

[BarryM]

... in response to Yes...., posted by LP on Nov 30, 2002

All the science crap DSD has been spewing is right off the Art Bell show. The paranoia and weird spew has its origins there also. I listen to the AB show, but I'm not so stupid and gullible to believe most of that crap from that show that DSD seems to be spewing about.

Also, it doesn't take a genius or even a subgenius to understand the crap he's going on about. Don't even think for a minute that when he uses physics buzzwords such as Quantum this or Quantum that he knows anything about it. You can buy a book from AB show guests that explains physics in laymans terms and leaves out the real meat of the theories such as the bodies of the equations and proofs to support the theories.

Oh yeah, most of the science on the AB show is JUNK science with very little substance. It makes for good entertainment but it feeds the paranoid.

-blm

[KenC]

... in response to One source of his delusions is the "..., posted by BarryM on Nov 30, 2002

Barry,
Try real hard to find any of that compassion you may have learned from being such a devot Orthodox and quit this line of BS.  Who cares that you don't agree with David's post regard some "off topic" ideas?  Go post your thoughts on science forum. The subject here was how a less than experienced AM can avoid being duped by a more experienced RW.  Can you be a lot less "attacking" and a lot more "on topic" with your thoughts?
KenC

[BarryM]

... in response to have you read anything in this thread?, posted by KenC on Nov 30, 2002

DSD is fooling you. His "story" is a fake of course. He posted the same crap earlier this year under a different name and many times before that. How many times does it take before you figure it out? He doesn't care about anyones opinion on this forum, he just wants to cause a stir. That's his way of having fun. He has done the same thing on other boards too.

The subject should be, how to avoid being duped by a childish nutcase on PL. If you want to play footsie with the insane person, thats fine. DSD is having a barrel of laughs over this board.

-blm

[bryan]

... in response to Yes...., posted by LP on Nov 30, 2002

We are all resposnible and accountable for our behaivior regardless of how the past influence our choices.