News Flash: Peru Trip Cancelled

[Phoenix]

[This message has been edited by Phoenix]

It has just been announced that the much anticipated trip to Peru by the American has been cancelled.

The ticket has been changed to a round trip ticket to Panama.

Once in Panama, the option will be left open of buying a round trip ticket from Panama to Colombia.

The American, who is black, was quoted as saying "I didn't feel comfortable with the agency director, Mr. Tarabotto, after he made offensive comments stating that 'our ladies members are looking for white men rather than looking for black men'".  

The American continued "It is clear that many Peruvian women will accept Back men - that is not in question,  but I didn't want to do business with a man who has an attitude like that. My discomfort is not with 'his lady members' but it is with HIM.  I challenged him on his statements and gave him an opportunity to positively clarify his comments but his response was entirely unacceptable.  I looked for other alternatives in Peru but didn't find anything satisfactory. I now look forward to having the time in my life in Panama and if not, Colombia is just a short ride away."

The American refused to comment on whether his love for a young Panamanian woman had anything to do with his decision.  

More news about this stunning development at 11:00...

[papi]

... in response to News Flash:  Peru Trip Cancelled, posted by Phoenix on Sep 9, 2004

Sounds like a lot of guys here are offended by your remarks. I am not going to comment either way on that but just curious - are you seeking Latin romance? If so, where have you been - i think you mentioned a return to Panama? How many times have you been to Panama? Have you visited any other countries? i get the impression that racism is a big issue with you but feel the forum should focus on seeking romance in Latin america. Again, what are your plans if any with respect to Latin love?

[LatinLuver]

... in response to News Flash:  Peru Trip Cancelled, posted by Phoenix on Sep 9, 2004

Mr. T should be popping the champagne right about now and getting out the "good glasses" to drink it out of with Graciela, as he reads Clay's cry baby email.
This Clay character is the exact kind of headache that an agency doesn't need.
Ladies of Peru you are saved! The Pisco Sours are on me!!!!
At least here is one "ugly american" that won't be going to South America giving us all a bad name.
As you would say Clay, "THANK YOU BRO'"

[Phoenix]

... in response to Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by LatinLuver on Sep 10, 2004

Let me just issue my standard tried and true go to hell comment to you and all of the fellow list members holding this position.  

Gee, I thought you were cool but I see that you are not.  

The agency owner and most white men are in fact disturbed by Black guys dating women who aren't Black.  I've seen this from day one on these Latin lists.  White guys are always telling Black men to stay in certain areas.  Yet, sure enough, when a Black man ventures out into a "prohibited" area, he almost always reports having a positive experience, even in Eastern Europe.

Sure, there is prejudice, but Black men can be and have been successful in and among any group of women.  Look no further than Troy as a Black man being successful where Mr. T and other men would have thought he would have FAILED.

Mr T's comments were not requested, and they were not true.  I had already factored the "bias" issue into my chances of success or failure in Peru and I didn't need some insulting commentary by some white male.  One of the women in his agency expressed interest in me (too many kids, however) and two others, who said they had boyfriends, seemed very interested in continuing communication with me. One even said any woman would be lucky to have me.  I didn't detect the slightest bit of prejudice and one said that race didn't matter.  

This is not about the messenger, it is his message that somehow the women of his agency aren't and couldn't possibly be interested in a Black man.  He's a freaking idiot and he is the one with the problem, not me.  I have no desire to deal with such a man or to hand him my money.  Now, if he drops out of the picture and his sister or someone else takes over the agency, I might have no problem handing another person my money.  

As far as a chip on my shoulder, I would say that none of you white guys will ever know how it feels to receive a letter like that so shut the hell up and if you don't, your words will not sting me in any way so you are wasting your breath.  

Clay  

[Heat]

... in response to Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 10, 2004

I love them!  I remember once I wanted to go out with this black chick who worked in a bar not far from my house.
I asked her and she told me she never dated WHITE guys!

Was a racist?  Maybe, but I don't have time to be offended.

So I just redirected to another black girl, a Colombian girl.

That worked out much better.  I still miss her kisses!

It happens to us too Clay.

[Phoenix]

... in response to black girls and me...., posted by Heat on Sep 12, 2004

Black American women are in general reluctant to date White guys.  They are still mad at getting raped by White men in past generations.  I'm serious.

However, you still have the majority population to work with in the US.

The same Black woman who rejected you probably would have rejected me too.

The same Black Colombian woman may very well have passed me over too for racial reasons with her lips reserved only for White men, according to what I see on Jamie's site.

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 10, 2004

Clay

I'm not going to shut the hell up.  I'm a White guy and I know how it feels like to be racially discriminated against.  You don't get to claim that territory all for yourself.  Sometimes the racists are the ones who capitalize Black but not White.

I'll leave you with some Don Henley:

You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak

Steve

[Phoenix]

... in response to Pity the women of Panama, posted by DallasSteve2 on Sep 11, 2004

Share your experiences of discrimination as it relates to Latin America with us.  Thanks.

Clay

[LatinLuver]

... in response to Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 10, 2004

Like I said the champagne is popping at matchingsys.com
This Clay character is BAD NEWS
Now that I see his act , I am going to send Graciela an email to RUN not walk away from this guy. He is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.
The blame game and "victim" game has long well run his course. Just the die-hards still use it, obviously like you.
My best friends dad who is in his 70's married a 37 year old Colombian from Bogota. He went after the agency owner told him quite honestly and upfront that the women wanted a man younger than him, BUT that he was still welcome to come.
Instead of complaning and moaning like the baby you are he went and found his woman. This was 7 years ago!
Like I said you did all of Peru and South America a big favor. Stay in Central America..............PLEASE !!!

[Phoenix]

... in response to Re: Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!..., posted by LatinLuver on Sep 11, 2004

First of all, have some balls and don't smear my name with Graciela just because you have a problem with me challenging you.  My problem is not with Graciela.  My problem is with her brother.  If you want to write an attack letter worthy of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, write to this person:  

Raúl Tarabotto / Agency Director
Matching System Intl.
Av. 28 de Julio 616
Miraflores (Lima 18) - Perù
www.matchingsys.com
manager@matchingsys.com

Don't forget to cc me in on it.

I don't seriously think that Graciela has the attitudes that he has or would have said the things that he said.

Don't go crying to Mommy.  Write the real culprit.

You say your friend's father was still welcomed.  That's just it.  Mr. Tarabotto didn't make me feel welcomed.  There was nothing welcoming or positive in his communications to me.

Thank you and have a good day.

Clay

[LatinLuver]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 11, 2004

You badmouthed their whole agenncy. Don't start backtracking just because your game has been exposed.
Raul and Graciela are basically joined at the hip.
Read my first letters to you. I was legitamately trying to help you. Pointing out to you that other black people have gone there and had a good time and that Raul had promoted a black person on the cover of his newsletter.
Also I pointed out on that other Peru website you mentiopned, that there were pictures of black men dancing at one of matchingsys.com Lima Fiesta Tours.
But all this wasn't good enough for you. You persisted in calling a good honest man that you never met a racist.
Well buddy, there is an expression that says, "when you make your bed you get to lie down in it"
I let both Raul and Graciela know what you said about the agency, pointed out this website for them to read your comments and they can make up their own mind.
These are two very humble, hard working people trying to make an HONEST living.
They don't need some black guy with a chip on this shoulder the size of the state of Virginia making references to racism etc.
Shame on you for your comments. But you know who you really hurt by all this. You hurt other nice black guys that are legitamately seeking a nice woman, not with an agenda like you.
How do you think that matchingsys.com is going to feel the next time a black man writes them after their experience with you?
Shame on you!

[Phoenix]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!..., posted by LatinLuver on Sep 11, 2004

I've been honest with Mr. T and so I don't care what you do.  I've made quite clear to him what I thought about his comments so reading this list is not necessary.

However, I hope when he reads these additional comments he will realize that it is not his position to advise Black men about their potential success.

Any guy who is interested in going to Peru should understand that there are few Blacks there, less than 1 percent. That's reflected in his database. If the agency says anything, that's all it should say. There aren't many "full-blooded" Indians either, which is not expected because there are substantial numbers in Peru.  Black men looking at his agency have therefore already processed this information and we don't need some "white" male telling us that his members are not looking for Black men.

That's my lesson for Mr. T and his joined at the hip sister.  Be positive and let the damn chips fall where they may.

I don't freaking care how he feels about another Black man writing his agency because he has already made it quite clear what he thinks about Black men and his "lady members".  I think other Black men should know this and decide whether they wish to deal with him or not.  I would not oppose any other Black male using his agency if he decided to do so.

I did call the man "biased" and I think his comments justify that.  I don't think Jamie would have said such a thing even if his agency was in Peru.  I did not call him "racist".  I have also acknowledged that he may have been well-intentioned but so was George Bush when he went into Iraq.

So, thanks for your help but you were the first one to express surprise about his comments.  I'm sorry for being an uppity negro who doesn't know his place in all of this but I was deeply offended by him and I'm not pulling any damn punches in this matter.

Hey, it would be easier if you provide hyperlinks for him so he won't have to fish around for my comments.

If he has anything positive to say, let him say it.  He refused to give this customer any positive comments or to make this customer feel welcome.     His comments after seeing my picture hit me like worse than Hurricane Ivan. I hope this experience will make his agency a better agency.  If he wishes to revise his earlier comments I would be happy to visit him on a future trip and then come to this list and praise him to the highest.

If the bridge has been burned, he was the one who lit the match.  I handed him a bucket of water and gave him an opportunity to put the fire out but he just put the water aside.  I decided not to cross that burning bridge and go elsewhere.

Clay

[LatinLuver]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ladies of PERU REJOI..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 11, 2004

You did Matchingsys.com a Big Big favor, now that they, like I, caught a hold of your "act"
If you ever grow a pair and go to Colombia, believe me the same fate will befall you.
That capital "L" you have tatooed on your forehead is there for a reason.
Peru is now out of play for you and if you ever turn your sites ever to Colombia, with your attitude and demeaner so will it.
Good luck in Pamana, sounds like it is where you belong.
I have been around long enough to spot "bad news" when it approaches, and you my friend are "BAD NEWS"
Dios bendiga senor.

[Locii]

... in response to Re: Ladies of PERU REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..., posted by Phoenix on Sep 10, 2004

You, sir, are obnoxious and really have your head inserted in a place which shall remain nameless.

"White guys are always telling Black men to stay in certain areas."

Good job; you just insulted me and most and a ton of other people with your own racist fantasies.  I would tell you where to go but I am too polite for that.

" none of you white guys will ever know how it feels to receive a letter like that so shut the hell up and if you don't,..."

Everyone on this board has been sent on or more of the following messages: "you are too old, too small, too wrinkly, too poor, too uncool, too white, too male, too dark, too square, too long-haired (me), too catholic, too jewish, etc. to..."  Just because you beleive that prejudice of skin color is the only one that exists doesn't make you smart or correct.

So you get a letter from a stranger a thousand miles away who tells you his Peruvian customers generally want white men.  You get offended, and then come off with ""White guys are always telling Black men to stay in certain areas".  So its not ok for this guy to relay to you what his customers' preferences are, but its quite ok for you to insult "white guys"?!?!?

What exactly is wrong with you?

Ciao

[Hoda]

... in response to Do as Phoenix says not as he does, posted by Locii on Sep 11, 2004

[This message has been edited by Hoda]

The former owner & his wife (who is black) of the original Latin Love dayyum near slapped the taste outta my mouth, when I brought up race in July of 99. Their advice....be a gentlemen, be truthful & respectful of the women & their culture & country.....and you'll be fine! I spoke very little spanish at the time, but I knew how to salsa & merenque. As Bud & his wife "ordered"...I left the bad emotional luggage behind, smiled alot, laughed alot & had a dayyum good time. The above seem to be foreign to Clay.

BTW....his head is soooo far up the area that you have chosen to remain nameless, that Clay could kiss his armpits!