A question for you guys...

[Georgina]

Hi, I have a question for the guys who are already married and for the ones who are gonna get married.

What have you done or are you gonna do when the first months of euphoria are gone and she starts complaining about America and Americans telling things like the following:

- How good her country is compare to the United States (even with all the problems we have in South America)
- How difficult is to make friends here.
- Americans are cold.
- I miss my family so much.
- Chineses are right. Americans are wrong (just to put an example
- Americans are impatient with foreigners. They just don't like people who has an accent.

I know you will be patient but after a year of listening to this complaints. What are you gonna do?

I'll appreciate your input.

Georgina

[RK]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

I think the is to be as patient as possable take as much time out for each other......

[Pete Eiguren]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Georgina,
My wife went through something like you talk about when she first got here.That was when she missed her family and her country and didn't yet have friends here.She likes it here better over time,not worse.She has several good friends.She talks to her mother every day and we go visit once a year,the last time for 32 days.
I asked her the other day where she prefered to live,here or Cali.She said here.It is cleaner ans safer and there are lots of opportunities(she wants to work when her english gets better).She also rattled off a list of all her favorite places here.She still misses her family but thinks this is a far better place to live.
The real adjustment and depression was in the first 2 months.
Question.Where do you live?Sometimes a person can live one place and wish to live another,but you are really voting your preference by where you actually are.We make choices that includes many factors and the result is where we live,work and who we are in relationship with.It is a personal choice.

Pete

[buzzy]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Thanks for your wonderful posting.  Ask an American for help and typically he or she will bend over backwards to lend assistance.  I don't believe the steroptype that Americans are cold.  Unless we're talking about the superficial exterior that people wear on their faces in public.  Americans tend to mind their own business and allow others their own space.  But call on an American for help!  Why we'd give the shirts off our backs!  Americans are approachable and friendly people.  But they have to be addressed.  Americans typically are sincere.  What they say they mean!  What is seen in their eyes is the truth!  How refreshing!  Of course Americans don't have some of the wonderful attributes that other countries peoples' have but that's what makes life interesting and complimentary.  Think how you must stand out....with all your special qualities.  And remember we were all foreigners at one time or another.  We've just been here longer than you!  People have always moved away from their homes since the dawn of mankind for love, jobs, opportunities, obligations, commitments, religious freedoms, adventures, civil liberties, education,  etc. etc. Look at what you've gained.  The gains outweigh the losses.  That's life for all of us, some losses but some wonderful gains.  Truthfully the MOB experience is not so easy.  It takes much courage, much perseverance, much faith, much compromise.  I always recognized the need for my fiance to stay connected with her family, with visits, calls, letters, etc.  It's only natural.  Good luck and thanks for your posting.

[Patrick]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

My wife and I don't really get into the "My country's better" discussions.  I think we both realize that each country and culture has it's strong points.

As for friends, we have a wide circle of friends.  Many of them Latinos or mixed couples.  My wife met many people in her ESL classes.  Some of the parties we've gone to have been pretty interesting with people from all over the world.  I don't think she's had trouble making friends.  Most of the people in our circle of mutual friends and either Latin or mixed marriages (gringos married to Latinas).  It's probably easier here in San Diego for immigrants because we have a pretty diverse population.  Some other parts of the country are almost 100% white and I can understand how a Latin woman could feel isolated.

Americans are cold?  Yes, I'd agree if you compared the average American to the Average Latino.  Much more of the kissing and hugging with them than the Anglos I know.  Easy solution for us-  We have Latin friends!

I miss my family-  That's why we applied for a re-entry visa right after we were married. My wife goes home for visits about once per year and keeps in touch by telephone as well.    She doesn't complain about missing her family because she knows that she can go to Colombia to visit anytime she wants.

Americans are impatient with foreigners (with accents).  Yes, I think that's true, especially in the work place with professionals.  Excellent English is very important for for anyone wanting to work as a professional here.  Once again, I think we're lucky to be living in San Diego.  There's many accounting positions for bilingual people.

After a year of listening to complaints, what am I gonna do?  It's been 4 years since she arrived here, but I haven't gotten tired of complaints, mostly because there haven't been many.  I think this is one of the reasons why it's important for the man to learn Spanish.  Once you've been through a few courses, you realize how difficult it is to truly master a foreign language and it makes you more patient with your wife learning English (which is far harder to learn than Spanish by the way).  That, and it facilitates better communication up front, before your wife learns English well.  Most guys assume the only reason to learn it is to make themselves "more attractive" to Latin women, but there's more important reasons than that.

You're correct about the "euphoria" period.  I read a book on culture shock that described typical immigrants reaction to live in a new country.  First is euphoria.  Everything's wonderful and a new experience.  Then they go into depression and alternate between ever reducing levels of either dispare or elation until things level out.  

You make some very good points about what it's like for a new immigrant here and the guys should listen carefully.

[David W]

... in response to Re: A question for you guys..., posted by Patrick on Apr 27, 2001

Patrick,

Do you remember the name of that book and who it is by?

David W.

[Martin T]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

Georgina,
I might just agree with her about some of those points that you mentioned, but she may have a real culture shock in my country. It's like the US in many ways but without the Latin/African compliment. She'll be happy for much, but very homesick. I think trips home are essential, so the money for that needs to be available. I am also seeking out the few Latinas in my city, she'll need to speak her language, and have friends from her part of the world, and hopefully I can find some Colombianas. The rest of the cure is devotion and patience, two of the important ingredients of love. I have known quite a few Filipina women who were desperately homesick for the Philippines, but after only a few years, home has shifted, from there to here. I think that is a turning point, when she refers to home, and she no longer means Colombia.

just my thoughts,
Martin

[Hodajr]

... in response to A question for you guys..., posted by Georgina on Apr 27, 2001

What have you done or are you gonna do when the first months of euphoria are gone and she starts complaining about America and Americans telling things like the following:

- I started some time ago, in introducing Stivalis to life in the states. News reports in Spanish & English. A couple of local Spanish newspapers have websites that she can read up on while in Cali. As I post this, my only real concern is her adaption to our changing weather.

How good her country is compare to the United States (even with all the problems we have in South America)
- We reconize & discuss the good & bad in both countries. She was concerned about how she would be received here. She had some legit concerns
about race relations here. She has never lived around so many different cultures & people. With her personality, she'll adjust fine.

How difficult is to make friends here.
- knowing my lady as I do, she won't have any problems making new friends.

Americans are cold.
- the weather yes, the people she'll be meeting initially no.

I miss my family so much.
- A natural reaction. If she didn't miss them, something would be wrong. There is no way to predict the level of homesickness, until the cord is cut & they're here.
 
Chineses are right. Americans are wrong (just to put an example
- I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Please explain.

Americans are impatient with foreigners. They just don't like people who has an accent.
- Americans don't like other americans with accents. Try being a New Yorker visiting family in Alabama. I hear it all the time..."Yew talk funny cuz". Part of the beauty of this country is the different sounds & taste. I for one welcome the differences.

I know you will be patient but after a year of listening to this complaints. What are you gonna do?
- If she still is moaning & groaning after a couple of months, you have some serious issues in that relationship which must be addressed.

Peace...Hoda

[Traveler]

... in response to Good questions..., posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

-reading current news is not a replacement for actually living somewhere foreign

-she will most likely migrate to other Spanish speaking people

-Americans are cold.   compared to latin americans, we are cold.  this is a quite common perception of Americans by latins.  Your friends might be social enough but in the day to day living encountering Americans in general, I'll bet she arrives at the same conclusion

-I think she meant the US is always trying to push everyone else around.  The Chinese were "right" in saying the US is always sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.  that's my read on her point.

-Americans are not hospitable to foreigners in general

-she WILL miss home

[Martin T]

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

Funny you should say that! I've encountered many Americans who are wonderfully friendly people, it's the few that expect the rest of the world to subserviently bow and scrape in their presence that spoil it all!

The Latins I have met are very physical people. I have been hugged and kissed by people that I've just met. The coldness of Americans (and many other western nationalities) that you speak of, is more often a manifestation of fear and insecurity.

Human beings are tactile creatures, and most of them would prefer to be so, it's the consequences of a paranoid culture that they fear. The other problem is that the warmth of a Latin can be confused in the "cold" culture. A hug and kiss from a beautiful Latina could be confused with an amorous advance, and if a Latino gives you a big hug and rubs your back, well initially, what would you be thinking he wants?  

The Latin cultures have deficiencies also, and hopefully, the continual mixing of our customs will smooth all of this out eventually and leave us all the better for it.

[Pete Eiguren]

... in response to Re: sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Martin T on Apr 28, 2001

NM

[Houndog]

... in response to Re: sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Martin T on Apr 28, 2001

You're a looney toon.

Houndog

[Houndog]

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

His 'point of view' is a very good place to start with 'his lady' and 'his relationship'...don't you think .

Should he use 'your' point of view...a confessed "stroller" and general all around strikeout

I certianly would hope not..!!!

Get Real..!!!

Houndog

[Hodajr]

... in response to sounds like YOUR point of view., posted by Traveler on Apr 27, 2001

reading current news is not a replacement for actually living somewhere foreign

- Of course not! But it's a START! Most people READ about a place before visiting. I suppose you GO first then read.

she will most likely migrate to other Spanish speaking people

- You Think!!! Colombia is not as culturally diversified as NYC. She has the social skills that will enable her to mingle with all she comes in contact with.

-Americans are cold. compared to latin americans, we are cold. this is a quite common perception of Americans by latins.

- Cold how? Please be more specific.

Your friends might be social enough but in the day to day living encountering Americans in general, I'll bet she arrives at the same conclusion

- Me, my family & the family she has in the area will not be her total world. A lot of times your attitude & the way you carry yourself, will determine the people & the vibe you surround yourself with. You don't know her or her world, so for you to predict her conclusions is ridiculous.

-I think she meant the US is always trying to push everyone else around.

- Did she say that? It sounds like YOUR point of view!

The Chinese were "right" in saying the US is always sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. that's my read on her point.

- Did she say that? It sounds like YOUR point of view

Americans are not hospitable to foreigners in general

- I suppose you have some scientific poll or some other  evidence to support this point. While you're gathering your proof. Check the numbers on how hospitable the rest of the world are to americans. You need to seperate People from Political policy.

-she WILL miss home

- You think??

[Traveler]

... in response to She requested points of view!!!!!, posted by Hodajr on Apr 27, 2001

you live in NYC.  she will have even more opportunity to meet other latins than in most places, she will seek them out.

-I find a country I'm interested in.  read about cool places to visit and go.  I don't think you get much about the flare of the culture or the taste of the food from reading an article

-her life will not be limited to you and your family unless you keep her in the closet.  she will make her own determinations regarding Americans

-cold - aloof, distant, not especially friendly especially with strangers.  not particularly friendly with neighbors.  not real social with people beyond the inner circle of friends and family.   surely you have noticed the kisses on the cheek, the tendency to go out in larger groups, it seems like they "know" everybody.

- I have found that latin people are much more hospitable towards foreigners than Americans are.  personal observation, not just point of view.

- I guarantee it.