When things go wrong

[Peter Lee]

Well interesting reading for this week, I have been following the Asian and Latino comparisons and the different comments..  But I have another subject for the board.
    It seems that many members have had divorces or are thinking of getting one.  I will say something that will give me a lot of flack here on the board but I must say it.  I know also that a few have been lucky and have fallen in love and married to a loyal loving lifetime mate.
    On the other hand I have seen many of my students and friends who loved each other and in less than 7 years hate each other.  They fight like cats and dogs and give attorneys lots of money.  They fight for the rights to see the kids, money and possessions.  It is the same boring repeated story over and over again.  
    The ones that seem to weather the storm of a divorce were the ones that planed for it ahead of time.  Kind of like a spare tire you hope you never have to use but in an emergency is there to get you home.  
    The laws in most states favor the women and that leaves us men in a bad situation most of the time.   Well if you go with a prenuptial agreement you are accused of not being serious about your marriage and say it is already doomed to failure coming in to the marriage with that attitude.   So if you get fire insurance on your home it is also a bad attitude to buy a house with already thinking of it burning before your buy it.   But I bet there are many who wish they had some insurance if the marriage went bad and then it is too late.   I feel that there is a better chance for a lasting marriage with a Filipina than an American Woman if just the hardship one has to overcome.  All the paperwork and long separation that has to be endured as a test to weed out the less than serious and committed.  The statistics favor Filipina marriages as the most successful ones.  But even with the best, STUFF happens and things didn’t work out all the time even with the best intentions.  Marrying a lady younger, same age and older don’t seem to guarantee a no divorce situation either.  For sure if there is a large age difference the risks go up.  I know coz I read it on this forum.
So under high risk circumstances would it not be prudent to protect the assets from being lost to someone who did not earn them?   It is one thing to get a divorce and loose your sweetheart; but to loose her and have her new boyfriend live with her in your house while you rent a room in a downtown cheap hotel is another story.  I am new to this board as you know and am not as informed as some.  But I would think it irresponsible to not at least let members know what can happen when things go wrong with the marriage.   I have met a few stranded Filipina wives who are married to American men but never processed the papers to bring them over.   They all have their stories, but I couldn’t help noticing that some, if I was married to them wouldn’t bring them over either.   I guess some guys married in too much of a hurry and later found out that this girl will drag them through hell.   They have another option and get home and don’t send for them.   Many generations of scammers will fine tune some so that even very experienced men will fall in traps.   Well once here in the US there are fewer options if things go wrong.
    So the question is should a man in love and marrying the Filipina of his dreams go to his attorney or get advise from this board for his protection in case things go wrong?  If so what advice is there to protect his assets? Assuming he is middle aged and has accumulated some wealth with hard work and sacrifice.  Or if things go wrong and we know they do, throw himself at the mercy of the court and chance loosing most of what he has accumulated in his life.  
  Now I hear disturbing news and along with the law that favors women if you are in a Homestead State like Florida or Texas you can’t sell your home without your wife’s consent.  That means that if I marry in the Philippines and want to sell my home I will need her signature even if she is not a citizen or has an approved visa to come to the USA.   I will have to obtain her signature to sell my home and maybe buy another.  If this is true anyone marrying a lady in the Philippines that has a homestead state is at her mercy.  So it is like driving your car without a spar tire.   You get a flat and you’re stuck.  I just wonder what other bits of information are out there that we are not aware of.
I know that this post is full of controversy; it is not popular to side with the divorced guy.  But some have been on that end, some with no fault of your own, some with and acceptable age difference, some with knowing the lady longer than most and some just unlucky.   Because I am relatively new here I am not aware of past archives with this information and a lead to that direction to get more information on this taboo subject would be appreciated.
Yours truly Peter Lee

[bryan]

... in response to When things go wrong, posted by Peter Lee on May 22, 2003

I cant believe this guy is drivin his dragster through a gauntlet of red flags lookin for the button that kicks in the after burners.

Talk to a lawyer, get married here. Tell her about finances that you and your lawyer decide she should know about and then sign a pre nup. I think your lawyer will tell you to pony up the bucks for her to take this document to another layer of her choice. Pre nups are not bullet proof but it is a good wall of defense if entered into openly and in good faith. If you marry her there how are you going to put a pre nup together or protect yourself in any way. Your assetts MIGHT be safe in this trust you speak of if she and her lawyer never knows it exists. Add a kid to the mix and she owns your butt.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: When things go wrong, posted by bryan on May 24, 2003

If she doesn't have her own independent legal representation and the documents are not translated into her native language, then any bozo divorce lawyer should be able to have a pre-nup thrown out on the grounds that she either didn't know what she was signing or that she was coerced into signing it.

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: When things go wrong, posted by bryan on May 24, 2003

Hey Bryan,
Glad you’re holding back LOL
I will have a meeting in June with my attorney and will pass your info to him to see what he says.  He is an immigration attorney so I should get some good advice.  Thanks for putting it straight do you have any examples that you can throw at us Bryan?
The question is will a prenam protect me and from what?
So far without consulting an attorney it seems that marital assets are what are accumulated while married.  In that case all I come in with prior to marriage I am suppose to go back out with.  My question is how will a prenap help me?  Also some guys I have heard have had their gf's sign prenaps in the PI.  Have you heard anything in that regard?  Well if their is a kid and things go wrong I will just get in line with the other thousands of divorced guys and pay my dues, as well we should.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: When things go wrong, posted by Peter Lee on May 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by Ray]

Peter, forget about the Immigration attorney. What you need is a shytt-hot Family Law attorney advising you on pre-nups and divorce options.

Would you let a proctologist operate on your bad hip??? His area of expertise may be close to your hip, but not close enough for me! ROFL

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Whoa!, posted by Ray on May 24, 2003

Well Ray I'll see this Attorney first and go from there but your way would be the rigtht way.  Don't know a good family attorney as yet but will look, thanks.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Whoa!, posted by Peter Lee on May 24, 2003

Ask this dude for a referral.

That's a great way to slow down your petition process. Let an immigration attorney handle it for you (LOL).

You really don't need an immigration attorney Peter. After 20 years in the military, you should be pretty good at filling out government forms by now :-)

Ray

[Patrick]

... in response to When things go wrong, posted by Peter Lee on May 22, 2003

I think everyone should consult with a family law attorney before marrying.  I did.  I took some steps to protect myself.  It didn't include a pre-nup since three attornies advised me on what it could do for me and what protection I already had by California law.  I simply documented what I had going in and kept pre-marriage assets completely separate from post-marriage assets.

A lot of men start talking about how they're going to get a pre-nup and many seem to be quite ignorant of what a pre-nup can and cannot do.  It's going to vary by state, so check with a family law lawyer in your area.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: When things go wrong, posted by Patrick on May 22, 2003

Thanks Patrick I don't get to hear from you very often.

I have an appointment with an attorney for June

I also have entertained myself and gotten some idea of the big picture by checking floridadivorce.com.  They have a .com for each State.

A prenap it seems would not be that benafical for me but I won't be sure till after the appointment in June.

[Ray]

... in response to When things go wrong, posted by Peter Lee on May 22, 2003

Peter,

Marriage is always a gamble, but some marriages have the odds stacked against them before they ever begin. Though I tend to agree with Howard on general principle, I would make an exception in your case. In my opinion, you should definitely sit down with a family law attorney and find out what your options are. I would start hiding and/or protecting your assets now, before you marry. Bob S gave some excellent advice for California, but I don’t know how well it would work in FL.

Peter, I may be wrong, but from your posts I have concluded some time ago that you really do expect your marriage to fail, or at least you realize that the odds are so far against you that you would be very surprised if it succeeded in lasting beyond 2 or 3 years. My take is that you are a smart guy and realize that you are getting old and are worried about living your final years as lonely old man. I think you have decided that you are willing to take a huge chance on this marriage, knowing that it has only a slight chance of success, because you don’t want to pass up the opportunity to at least share a few years of bliss with a good-looking young girl that very well may be after nothing more than a green card. It comes out time and again in your posts, as further evidenced by this last one on the topic of pre-nups and your fears of having your wife throw you out of your home so her boyfriend could move in.

Actually, considering your position, I don’t really blame you for making the decision to marry her, but I would expect that she is also savvy enough to have a back-up plan in case she gets here finds out that you are an abusive dork or something. Hopefully, she is willing to give the marriage a chance and at least give you the benefit of the doubt that you guys just may be able to live happily ever after. If you are both committed enough to really work at it, then maybe it will work out. I hope so.

Good luck!

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: When you know things will go wrong, posted by Ray on May 22, 2003


    Well Ray you know I try to be honest on this post, coz if I am not I can’t expect to get much help.   Maybe in the beginning your conclusions were based on the fact that you didn’t know me as much as you do now.  But I would feel that you are at least half right in you estimate of me.   I have seen so many marriages fail it has made me reluctant to marry all these years.  I feel with the disposition of a Filipina my chances would be better.  If I honestly believed that my marriage would only last 2 or 3 years I would not bother with all the work involved.   I don’t have a problem dating women here but it seem I am like many on this board inclined to be attracted to the Filipina disposition.
I am not worried about getting old [old already LOL] I have so many friends and students in the Martial Arts.  25 years of teaching in the same place has me busy with lots of students and over 8,000 that came through my doors for over those years.  I have a few students who have been with me for over 18 years.  There is always some middle aged women who would love to move into my house and take over LOL.  I try to be alone and to myself whenever I can, the sail boat is a good way I can get away and be by myself for anytime without hurting someone’s feeling.   There is that story of bank robbers who got 35 years for armed robbery for stealing $2,000.  If they would have stolen $200,000 they would have gotten the same jail time. So yes I am going for the $200,000 The risk may be higher with a younger age but if the two really love each other the odds are better.  If it fails the punishement is the same no matte what age they are.  Well in my case I have seen all kinds of couples not make it.  Some with a variety of ages and background that didn’t make it anyway.  So yes this is where you’re partly right and too me it will be worth the risk.   I don’t want to pass up the opportunity but not to just share a few years of bliss with a good-looking young girl but a chance for more than that.   2 or 3 years would not be worth the effort.  About her just wanting a green card I don’t think she knows what that is.   The indication I got was that she would be happy staying in the PI with me retired or a homemaker with me in the US.  She seemed to like the idea of me retireing in the PI and was very happy with that.
Well Ray about the topic of prenaps, I got that from an American who rented a house in Cebu near my gf’s house.   I would talk to him a lot as we had to pass his house to get to the highway.  He had a 6 months visa and was there a few months already looking for another wife.  He told me of his horror stories of what happened to him in the past.   And guess what the story was? Yup you guessed it.  She ran away from him after 2 ½ years, friends got her an attorney and she kicked him out of his own house.   Her new boyfriend was sleeping in his bed and cooking in his kitchen.  But his most concern was that she was using his house to live with someone else.  He mentioned getting his new gf to sign papers in the PI before he got married.   I swore that when I got back to the US I would research that and see if I could prevent what happened to him happen to me if things went wrong.  I think this guy may have been exaggerating a bit but knowledge is power.  Like I said before, most Filipinas don’t have the disposition to take advantage of a divorce.  But once she is introduced to an American attorney I need to say no more.
About her being savvy enough, to have a backup plan in case she gets here and finds out that I am an abusive dork or something.
If I suspect that she feels that she is not sure if I am abusive dork or something I would let her stay in the PI for as long it took for her to get to know me.  She should not go over with any doubts and I am willing to keep her in the PI and visit as much as it takes to get her confidence.  No need for a backup plan for her.  Right now there is no indication that she feels that she doesn’t know me enough to feel confident to come over with me and know she will not be mistreated.  
If I didn’t feel that she is willing to give the marriage a chance and at least give me the benefit of the doubt that we can live happily ever after I wouldn’t be writing this board or going through all this trouble.   Right now I feel we are both committed enough to really work at it, and like you said “then maybe it will work out”.   I think you have given me a little slack coz I am open with what she has done in the past.   But I am not going into this with my blinders on and I hope I have seen all the red flags.  Remember I was the one that created the temptation to early in the relationship.   Some of her stories still bother me a little.   But many members and my friend here in Daytona has had worse things done by their fiancée and came out of it without a marriage problem.   Remember I was a paratrooper with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam.  We jumped with chutes packed by others, it was total faith that they did a good job.   But once in a while we had a malfunction and for that we had the emergency chute.   Let’s hope I don’t need it when I jump LOL.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: When you know things will go wro..., posted by Peter Lee on May 24, 2003

Come on Peter, you can fool yourself but you can’t fool your old buddy Ray (LOL!). I’ve been on this planet nearly as long as you have :-)

Like I said, it comes out time and again in your posts. You’re scared to death of this marriage, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s obvious that you are not anywhere ready to make the commitment.

So you really don’t think she knows what a green card is? ROTGDFLMMFAOTAHAIPCNTPINGDP! Sorry Peter, I lost control there for a second! For your own sake, you better START believing that perhaps she knows a lot more than you think she does.

You say that there is no need for a backup plan for her, yet at the same time you are scrambling to put a plan in place for yourself. Now I see that you are working on a possible plan to leave her over there for a couple of years, and visit once in a while, until you two are sure about each other? Isn’t that what a courtship period is all about? About being sure BEFORE you commit to marriage? I think under the circumstances, she would be wise to withhold any sex until you file the papers for her visa (LOL). She will always have some doubts Peter, and so will you. That’s only natural. I can’t think of anyone else on this forum that would marry in the Philippines and purposely delay the paperwork for the visa because he was scared of getting screwed by a divorce lawyer. I think that all the rest of us did everything possible to see that we could be together as soon as possible (It’s called love!).

Marriage is not all about YOU Peter! It’s about two people coming together as one, and don’t forget that. By ignoring her concerns, you are only being selfish. You cannot go on living your life as a bachelor with a little lady on the side for companionship. You better be ready to make some major life changes or you’re going to crash and burn for sure. Compromise, compromise, compromise!

Again, I think that you are no where near ready for marriage. Not to your fiancée or to anyone else for that matter. But I know that I am not going to talk you out of it once you have made up your mind, so I’ll do what I can to help you out with the procedure. And I sincerely wish you luck and happiness :-)

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Peter, Peter, Peter!, posted by Ray on May 24, 2003

Ray, Ray, Ray you sounded a little Condescending

Ray, I want you to imagine a guy who has never been married in 60 years.  You bet I am scared to death.   If I am not ready for a commitment now should I wait another 10 years or so?   I am coming ready or not!  LOL.  I’m not trying to fool anyone including me.   Yes, I really believe she does not know what a green card is.  Ill bet she thinks you just come over here and work.  This is a girl who was brought up in the sticks of Mindanao who was never on the internet till I got her on it.   Her mail was so bad and her chats were so bad that I would never have pursued her if I did not know her personally.   It was like pulling teeth to get her to do the NSO birth certificate and the NBI was the same.  At first we were talking about me retiring in the PI together.  .  Her intention when we discussed it was not to work but to be a house wife like her mom.   That is fine with me, less paperwork.
We all know about her inflating her school tuition and that had me worried coz it was not a smart thing to do.   To me it was an act of not caring if she got found out or not.  She obviously after confronted and seeing that this could loose me forever made a big change in our relationship.   That was the turning point for her.  On our next chat with her I will pose the question and ask her what color that card is called that lets you work in the US?  And maybe her cousin who is about to be married could tell her.
Well if she knows more than I think she does there should be a way of finding out so we can end that part of our format once and for all.   Any ideas on how I could do that?   If you don’t come up with anything I will just ask her some basic questions and bait her to tell me if she knows.
Ok Ray I don’t want you to lose control even for a second so, I will presume that she knows more than she is telling me.   [What happened to the trust you talked about in previous post LOL]
It sounds like your in the trust but verify department too then? LOL
Ray, we are the only animal on the planet who can say “what if”.   You do it all the time.  What if she does this what if I do that is all I am doing.  Without “what if’s”  there is no plans or backup plans or anything.   You know there is more to it then just be good friends trust each other get married and live happy ever after with lots of kids.   I am doing what I feel all of us should and that is verify, check and have some back up plans.  If she doesn’t have any back up plans and things go wrong I would do the right thing and make sure she gets back home with the least problems if that is what she wants.  I only mentioned leaving her there longer coz one of the benefits of the fiancée visa was you had 90 more days to make up your mind.  A guy has the option to marry in the PI delay her coming over only if there is still doubt.   I have not planned on doing it but the possibility is there.  Courtship is different than marriage as you know and things could come up that was not evident in a short less than a year courtship.  
About her withholding any sex until papers are filed?  Well I never came over to the PI for sex to begin with.   Plenty of that back home LOL.   Your kidding around with this anyway and we are having a bit of fun but if that is what it would take I would have no problem with that, I usually don’t think about sex when I am in hard training so I am used to it.  If it was important to her it would be no problem with me.
We don’t know how many members wished they would have kept there spouse in the PI longer if they knew they had the option.  All I know is the American Consulate was full of women married to Americans who are stranded there.  They all asked about the same questions, can I initiate the paperwork without my husband?  Can I make him initiate the paperwork to get me to the US?  Lots of sad stories
I think that all the rest of us did everything possible to see that we could be together as soon as possible (its called love!).   Well I plan on doing the same but I have not started the paperwork on her yet.   I could have started a fiancée visa months ago but it was too soon in the relationship.   So timing is everything, I have delayed since Jan 03.  I don’t see any difference in delaying if there is doubt when married.  That is called tough love LOL.   I don’t expect any problems and things should go smooth and thanks for wishing us luck.
Well Ray your right and I don’t intend to ignore her concerns and it will be a major life change.  That is why I am so scared and nervous coz I know it will be for keeps.   I know about compromise, I have women instructors working for me.  The best way to get along with them is to do what ever they say!  LOL
Ray the one way you would be convinced of my relationship with this girl is if we got married and made it.   I hope you are wrong about our chances, but you are the best devil’s advocate on the board.
Say Ray!  Nothing like being stabbed in the chest and at the same time wished I would get a good doctor to fix it LOL
Till next time

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Peter, Peter, Peter!, posted by Peter Lee on May 24, 2003

I guess I was a little rough on you (LOL).

I better cut you some slack before you whoop my ass with some of that kung foohey stuff! :-)

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to You're right..., posted by Ray on May 24, 2003


Lets not hold back anything Ray, that way you can always say "I told you so".   Hey i must be getting better I had 30 women in the Tae Bo class today.  I was teaching the women at the end of the class how to hold their husband down so they can't get up. LOL  I offered to teach the women how to put their hubby asleep in 8 seconds; but they told me that happens every night when they try to get hubby to fool around.  I guess i'm not keeping up with the latest techniques LOL.  Am I missing something?