WW2 book on Ukraine

[Marty]

For those who are interested in war on the Eastern Front.

"The Black March", by Peter Neuman, who was an SS officer and recounts the fighting through Ukraine.  His path took him through Kiev-Zaporoshi-Rostov and then south before being sent to Stalingrad (but too late for the battle).  

A point I found interesting:  He tells of a massacre at Krasna, which if I located the right village, would be about 30 km from Larisa's hometown.  And then he would have gone through between Mariupol and Donetsk (Stalino) which is where Larisa's hometown is.  

Larisa says a lot of the old-timers wouldn't talk about the war, must have been bad times.  They estimate 10 million Ukrainians died between the German and Russian occupations, which would have been every 4th person, man woman and child.  I think it was in '38 that the Russians came and got Larisa's Grandpa to go fight the Germans and they never heard from him again.  The Germans leveled her hometown and set up a headquarters there but they were pestered by the partisans hiding out in the mountains nearby.  Larisa's parents were pretty small at that time and don't remember much.  Her dad talked about eating grass to survive while hiding in the forest.  And we complain about eating Spam.

[BURKE89]

... in response to WW2 book on Ukraine, posted by Marty on Oct 24, 2002

Michael Locusz, Galicia Division. The Waffen SS 14th Grenadier Division 1943-1945 (Atglen PA: Schiffer Pub., 1997).

Quite an interesting study, of the options available to Ukraine's nationalists during the latter part of the war. The conflicts between: Soviet and Ukranian partisans is fascinating, as well as the division's utter devastation at Brody. A great many Ukrainian combatants were interviewed for the book, giving it a different angle than most published on the subject.

Sven Steenberg, Vlasov. (N.Y.: Alfred A. Knopf Inc., 1970).

This one, deals with the military exploits of Andrey A. Vlasov. One of "Stalin's favorites," and a chief stategist in the defense of Moscow, in '41. He was captured, during the 1941 German counter-offensive; and eventually led the Russian Liberation Army (ROA), against the Soviet. All in all, a very sound biography of a little known Russian patriot.

And finally...

Julius Epstein, Operation Keelhaul. The Story Of Forced Repatriation ( Old Greenwich, Conn.: Devin-Adair, 1973).

This book is a horrible inditement of: U.S./U.K. betryal, lies and broken promises to Russian Anti-Communists and their families. Just as Dan, spoke of the incomprehensible inhumanity directed at Ukraine, in 1932-1933. This work explains, in detail, the repatriation of 100's of thousands of Stalin's "enemies." This action, contrary to all international law, remains a disgraceful page in our history.

Vaughn

[Dan]

... in response to WW2 book on Ukraine, posted by Marty on Oct 24, 2002

Ask your wife if she, or her family, recalls the loss of friends or relatives during the Stalin purges in the early 1930's.

While the 10 million lives lost during WW-II is staggering, the numbers during the years 1930-1932 is even higher. It is almost inconceivable to recognize that most of these lives were lost to starvation - a starvation that was unnecessary and falsely created by Stalin's collectivization and de-kulakization programs targeting Ukraine.

I am still sickened at the knowledge.

Another BTW - we have Kruschev to thank for finally allowing the west some insights into the atrocities of Stalin's pogroms. As vilified as Kruschev was in western press and history books, I think that a future review of historical evidence will show that Kruschev (a Ukrainian, BTW) was as much a catalyst to open the Soviet system to the west as was Gorbachev more recently.

Sorry for the ramble - but it just touches a nerve I guess.

Cheers!

- Dan

[Philb]

... in response to Good Post - And BTW, That's Not the Wors..., posted by Dan on Oct 24, 2002

Even though Kruchev was Ukrainian, as Comissar of the Stalingrad area during WWII, wouldn't he at least be partially responsible for some of the abuses perpetrated on his fellow country men?

[Dan]

... in response to Interesting....., posted by Philb on Oct 24, 2002

Two thoughts occur.

One is that Kruschev was a fairly minor politician during the period of the pogroms (1929-1932) - and not in much of a position to bear responsibility for the atrocities.

Second is that during WW-II, my bet is he would have been pretty focused on the urgency of defending Stalingrad - and less concerned about other matters.

BTW - did you know his eldest son was killed at Stalingrad?

Just FYI.

- Dan

[Philb]

... in response to Well....., posted by Dan on Oct 24, 2002

I did not know about his son.

It is pretty horifying to read of Russia's treatment of the Ukrainian people (also of the Tatars and many others).  I have noticed that some Russians still tend to view Ukrainians as being some what beneath them.  I wonder how prevalent this is?

By the way thanks for responding to my question about Kremenchuk.

[Lynn]

... in response to WW2 book on Ukraine, posted by Marty on Oct 24, 2002

[This message has been edited by Lynn]

If you are ever in Odessa you should visit the Museum of the Catacombs. When I went there our guide was a old fella, a well decorated veteran of WWII, spoke no English but very interesting none the less.