Myths And Realities

[LP]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

...tell, as I dont track it closely, it's about $20K at this point. That includes everything. Phone, flowers, hotels, gifts, ect, and goes back to the *very* begining two years ago.

Recall that I have a habit of flying them to other countries since I hate the cold and they like the break alot. Also recall I fly for peanuts, so you can imagine how little I care to run up a tab like that. Then again, my flight privledges are offset in costs by flying them to other places.

I'm also sending cash on a regular basis to a few I've known for a long time who need the help even though I doubt anything will come of it. Yeah, yeah, I know, but it's nothing for me and much for them, so sue me.

Frankly, I don't see it as being too expensive at this point. I planned it in the begining as a two year venture and $40K total. lol...That leaves me another $20K after she gets here for all the other stuff before it goes over. I know it seems alot, but it's all relative and I'm adamant about taking the time to do it right. Heck, I blow 10K a year on the dumbest stuff you can imagine anyway. The da*n airplane alone runs about 20K a year, so FSU chix cost peanuts by comparision.

Hey, I wish I coulda done it for two grand and I could have if I took the short route. In fact, the very first one I met was keeper but she was so young I bailed on her. I'm still somewhat haunted by it today, but we remain in touch even though she married a European guy. Only time I wished I was younger. (lol, well, not the *only* time)

I'll quit when I run outta bucks or I find the right one, neither of which is likely to happen soon as I'm just moseying along these days. I'm not taking it too seriously because I've got a pretty sweet domestic deal now.
Unfortunatley, she's another kid so there'll be nothing longterm coming outta that, even though she seems to want it.

Like I said, it can be done on the cheap if that's the main criteria. Look at some of these guys who do it as cheap as possible by making one trip and picking one of the first ones to come down the pike. Up front, not much, but their "back end" costs are gonna be something when it blows up in their face.

Fankly, like in all things, me thinks ya gets what ya pay for.

[mdante99]

... in response to Near as I can...., posted by LP on Dec 19, 2001

LP, we don't always agree but you make your points in a much more cordial way. Hence I am happy to respond to you.

There are a couple of posts from RW, here, read them, we all can learn something.

I made only one trip; my costs were under $2000; almost one year has passed, we are very happy; who is to say that if I would have spent $10,000 and two years searching I would have done any better. The way I did it, I don't know how I would have spent more than $2,000, and why?

With regard to your statement of you get what you pay for; I beg to differ; LP the next time you take an airplane flight; look to your right and then to your left; both the persons paid a different price; depending upon where they bought the tickets from. You probably know same flight, has dozens of rates, for exactly the same seats. The same goes for the hotel rooms, same room more than a dozen prices depending upon who is paying.

I had some specific requirements, RW understood them well, under those circumstances I would be hard pressed to spend even two thousand dollars.

There is certainly no limit to what you can spend; to each his own.

Mark

[LP]

... in response to Costs, posted by mdante99 on Dec 19, 2001

...the entire problem boils down to this:

Your situation was unique. You quickly met one you thought was right and then she helped defray the costs in a big way. Thats not typical, by any measure. So far so good. But while your situation was unusual, and you did specificaly say those were only *your* experiences, you posted them under the guise of debunking "myths".

Myths imply a generalized situation while you admited your's are your own experiences. This does seem to me to be at odds. Me thinks the way you choose to title the post caused the issues to surface. Sticking with generalities, 90% of us are not going to pull off what you did unless it's a "go to a social and pick one" kinda thing. I understand your intent was to give us sage advice but it just didn't come out that way. I know you meant no harm in it.

I understand Dan's point of view also. Maybe he's had a bad day or, more likely, it's some latent issue from a past posting of your's that he takes exception too. I can't speak for him but something clearly has him tweaked.
Yes, you're right about RW. While me thinks she exhibits some typical women's dreamer's behavior, (not all bad to be sure), I'm consistantly surprised at her perceptivness in these issues. She's no dummy, thats for sure.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on spending more time in looking. It just stands to reason that, in such a large pool, there are better fish to be had if one fishes longer. Of course, one can spend all their time and come up short but I feel I can't just be with the first one to strike my fancy. If it's for keeps, and it's supposed to be, why would you make the decision so quickly no matter *who* she is?

Makes no sense, unless you were desperate to get it over with asap, as many are. She may well be the one, but how could you get to know someone in so little time? To me it's not a cost issue, it's a knowing her issue and that takes much time, money and many trips.

lol..I understand your cost comparision, even though I pay the same for every flight and there is no one on my right, only on my left, and he pays the same as me.

It all comes down to how you can marry a woman with so little exposure to her. Six months and one trip is nothing. Then again, there are some real idiots who think they've found true love after a week and no one could make them see the foolishness of this either. These guys try to cover up how desperate they are by saying some really bizzare things to rationalize their poor decision making. The problem is they allow their desperation to overule common sense but you'll never get them to see that. As I've said before, you can't argue with a drunken man and believe me, they'll likely pay for it down the road in a big way. Oh well, when ya pay to learn, ya learn.

I absolutely agree about dealing with girls who speak English and have computer/Internet access, I've tried to stick to this since day one.

So you see, for me at least, it's not really responsible to make newbies, who are most likely desperate and overwhelmed by the agencies and websites, think that this is such easy an venture. The odds are it will be nothing like your experience, and if it is, you'll forgive me for thinking they rushed it. I wish you luck, but if you made one trip, met her once and brought her home in a total of six months, than that isn't so far off from just going to a social and picking out Sveta #22 in blonde.

The risk is simply to great, even if it cost you more, to give the impression to others thats all there is to doing this. Time may be money, but in this game there simply is *no* substitute for time spent with her before making such a command decision. Emails and phone calls help little in determining if she's right for you, only time spent together will do that and to blow that off until *after* she comes is, imho, dangerous indeed.

[mdante99]

... in response to Mark, I think...., posted by LP on Dec 19, 2001

LP: I would tell you something that may have been instrumental in my decision.

My parents hardly met each other until they married; they were happily married for over 50 years until my mother died.

I lived with my ex wife for years before getting married; mine ended in a divorce.

The lessons I learned from my parents was that it is commitment that makes a marriage last... not how well you know the person before marriage.

You know the stats in USA; research has clearly shown that people who profess to " know " each other well, before marrying by living together have a HIGHER divorce rate.

One thing I noticed in the first meeting with my wife; she was committed. Time has proven that my judgment was right.

You can spend the rest of your life looking for a better fish.
Mark

[LP]

... in response to Near as I can...., posted by LP on Dec 19, 2001

...made me look a little closer. I was high, it's closer to $16K.

Were you asking only about the FSU?  I think not, I bet you were asking about the costs of finding a mate abroad period, regadless of the country. I included trips to Spain and Greece in the first total as I've never limited it to the FSU.

I'd say FSU costs only are about $13K at this point.

[WmGo]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

Hey Dan,

Yes, I have invested a lot more than two grand and agree that it would be an unrealistic "budget". I have invested over six or seven times that amount, although I am able to conduct each subsequent trip cheaper than the one before as a result of learning the ins and outs of the venture. Although everyone is different, and anything is possible in terms of how many trips it will take to meet one's match, I think that ten grand would be a reasonable *minimal* amount to consider for a two year search.

Yes, the deer need thinning. I have a new email address and send you a message.

Rock-n-Roll,

WmGO

[DE]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

Certainly more then $2000 total, but I haven gotten the trips down to a reasonable $ amount.  My last trip for three weeks ran:

Airline $875
Apartment $270
Train tickets: $60
Bus tickets: $18
Interpreter: $70
Expenses to include laundry, restruants, food, taxis, angecies, yada, yada, yada: $600
One night in Amsterdam: $90
Great time: priceless

Mind you, the whole trip was in Kharkov where prices are cheaper.  If I had stayed in Kiev, you could double to triple the apartment bill, and add about 50% for the restruants and other misc. stuff.  So it's roughly $2000. But this is having a friend there arrange everything and finding a cheap apartment.  My trip in April which lasted 4 weeks and involved Kiev and some socials ran about $3500 total.  My first trip in '98 (two weeks) which was soley arranged through an agency (I didn't know any better) ran over $4000 but the tickets were $1800 of it as it was prime summer and the agency kind of screwed me by saying they could get me tickets cheaper so I waited until the last minute only to get stuck with them for $1800.

But none of this includes the numerous telephone calls, letter translations, yada, yada, yada for all the preparation and stuff prior to and after the trips!

[Philb]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

First trip: Airfare Wyoming to Moscow $1189.00 (August 2001)
           Airfare Moscow to Anapa  $176.00
           Visa and registration $ 170.00
           Lodging with meals 25 nights $500.00
           Airport Transfers (three) $105.00
           Hotel 3 nights in Moscow $318.00

Second trip (planned for this January/February:
           
           Airfare wyoming to Moscow  $749.00
           Airfare Moscow to Novokuznetsk $295.00
           Visa with registration  $170.00
           Hotel in Moscow 1 night  $65.00
           Airport transfers (three) $105.00 (total)

           Total so far  $6203.00

I did not include any entertainment expenses, meals in restraunts, cab fares, etc. because I did not keep track.  I would gues another 1000.00 during my first trip.

Granted I could have cut expenses by processing my own visa app,  taking the metro between airports, etc.., but I did not live extravagantly.  My lodging in the Anapa area was a small single room with bathroom/shower. There was no TV,air conditioning and the like.  

I did not include cost of lodging in second trip because I do not know for certain what it is going to cost. Probably around 20 - 30 a night is my guess.

I am planning another trip this spring or early fall.  All of these costs will occur before I even begin the k1 process.

 
   

[Philb]

... in response to Re: LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto ..., posted by Philb on Dec 19, 2001

n/t

[Stan B]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

I din't keep real close track, but airfare from Hawaii, room, interpreter, car & driver and spending $ for 12 days was $2500. Then $ for english lessons, so that she could speak better when she got here, $ to help her family, $ to get her to Warsaw, air tix for her and Katya to Hawaii...
makes it an endeavor that shouldn't be for the budget conscience.
Besides if you plan on giving her a 'better life' you best not be in the position that your counting on her getting a job right away, so that you can make ends meet, or she'll feel like she was better off where she was, as at least she had friends and family there.

[Dan]

... in response to How Much Has It Cost You, posted by Stan B on Dec 19, 2001

Even though *you* were apparently successful with a single trip - do you advocate others to establish this as the norm and expectation??

Admittedly, my particular case is much different in that I have business in Ukraine. I travel there principally for business, and was fortunate to  stumble into finding my wife. In the process, I've met many western guys traveling to Ukraine hopeful of meeting someone. In fact, short of Jack, I've probably actually *met* more of the posters on this board than anyone - some of them in Ukraine. Anyway, my point is to say that I could describe how much I've spent, but it would not be an apples to apples comparison for most on this board.

I do believe, however, that this dating process is not all that much different than dating a gal in the US. Yes, there are cultural issue and geography issues and sometimes language issues - but people still need to get to know one another and there is no substitute for time together. The selection process plus time together once nearing a final decision dictates several trips. Several trips cost far more than $2000, as your example illustrates.

- Dan

[Stan B]

... in response to And That Was For A Single Trip  - Wasn't..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

And yes I got very lucky to meet the girl of my dreams on my 1st trip. I could possibly go over 10 more times and never even meet anyone like her, so no I don't think anyone should count on going just once.

[LP]

... in response to yup, posted by Stan B on Dec 20, 2001

[RW]

... in response to LP, WmGO, DE, Rags, Jack, Quasimoto (Oth..., posted by Dan on Dec 19, 2001

That's actually what I do for living

Anyways, Dan, I don't understand what's a big deal. Mark stated that it was HIS experience. I think everybody here is smart enough to realize that it does not apply to everybody, especially for the process itself.

Heck, somebody posted before that the whole process + 4 year marriage costed the guy $120,000 (I still can not figure out how). But, does it mean it cost you that much?

Regards,

Russian Wife

[Rags]

... in response to cost savings analysis, posted by RW on Dec 19, 2001

I have/will spend well over that in the next four years on my marriage. What is so out of line?

First was finding my fiancee, then the visa process, after that was getting her here and settling things that she was leaving behind. Next will be a wedding, a car, clothes, etc. Later we can start on the dentistry and other health problems.

The bottom line IMHO is if you are pricing a relationship that will bring both of you a lifetime filled with happiness you are defeated before you start.