RW dental problems – lack of money or culture

[Dan]

... in response to May I ask a question?, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Here in the US, the whitening agents utilized are normally a strong form of hydrogen peroxide. The way in which they accomplish the "whitening" is they go into the many small pores that compose the tooth and they clean out these pores - thus making the tooth look much whiter. It is definitely NOT conducted with an acid, though the agent is strong enough that it will sometimes irritate gums. Yes, it is true that it needs to be repeated periodically - because the pores begin to darken over time - especially if people drink lots of tea or coffee or are smokers.

Tootsie, you may not have intended it, but each time I read your original post, I get irritated. It strikes me that you were offering a VERY condescending view of anyone other than Muscovites. It further struck me that you were accusing anyone suffering from dental problems as lacking culture. Candidly, it irritated me - which is unusual for your posts. I usually find them spot on. Just wanted to bring this (gently) to your attention.

- Dan

[Tootsie]

... in response to Whitening Agents . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 28, 2001

Dan,

When I read that somebody had to spend $10 000 on teeth I just thought (before all the explanations) that probably this person doesn't know how dentist's room looks like. Sometimes I just forget that your prices differ too much from "our" prices.

When I go to dentist I usually pay:

- nothing for watching my teeth
- $3 for cleaning the teeth with ultrasound and pastes etc.
- $ 12-15 for a filling if I need one
- $3 for x-ray if the doctor thinks I need it
- $6 for computer tomography if I need it
- around $30 for treating of pulpitis (I had it once) but this includes taking off nerves, filling canal roots etc.

Can you imagine what is $10 000 for a dental work here?

Regards,

Tootsie

[DE]

... in response to One more explanation, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

32 perfectly aligned and white implants?

[Tootsie]

... in response to Whitening Agents . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 28, 2001

I didn't want to offend anybody. But sometimes it's a bad Moscow woman who comes out of my nature. You know that Muscovites often feel somehow "better" than other citizens of Russia and we always had this shortcomming. Probably this is lack of culture. Sorry. But you know, Americans also feel themselves somehow "better" than other nations in the world...

[Bob S.]

... in response to Sorry Dan,, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

The technical term is "Ethnocentrism", the belief that one's own culture or ethnicity (and in particular the capital of that culture or nation) reigns supreme, and the further out you get from that center, the more inferior you find people.  It is part of human nature (defending the "us" against an unknown "them") and common in ALL cultures to some degree.  It is especially noticable in expansive but insular world empires such as the U.S., Russia, France, Japan, etc.  It doesn't mean a lack of culture, just a lack of perspective due to insularity (a common enough malady put in remission by frequent travel abroad).

[RW]

... in response to May I ask a question?, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

I am certainly not an expert, but here is what I found:

1) Dental care in US is much better in preventive care - teeth cleaning is scheduled at least once a year, my doctor recommends to do it twice a year. I don't know what kind of material they use, but it was much better than anything I have ever done in Russia (and I visited all kind of expensive places with new equipment). Also, there was no paint involved, so I am not sure which type of whitening your doctor recommended. At my dentist teech cleaning costs about $100.... but again, may be we are talking about different procedure? I saw a lot of commercials on TV on teeth whitening, but I don't remember costs.

2) yes, americans take a good care of the teeth. The very best thing I found here is Sonicare toothbrush - the one which runs on battery and does all the work for you

3) vast majority of Americans have crowns which are of much better quality that the ones made in Russia. I don't know what is in the material, but it is much more resistent to the tea, coffee stains, etc. Plus if you do the cleaning regularly you will certainly have it "pure white"...

Russian Wife

[Tootsie]

... in response to Re: May I ask a question?, posted by RW on Nov 28, 2001

First I thank you and all the guys who answered my question. I did get a little scared especially after apk's post but I still trust my dentist and hope for the best . By the way, in the clinics I use to go they use x-ray and regular cleaning of teeth (both ultrasound and pastes).  

My next question is about this toothbrush on batteries. Several years ago I bought a very expensive Braun toothbrush (over $100 here) and was very happy because it really did all the work for me . But my dentist was against this brush. He suggested that I used normal "cheap" toothbrushes of different toughness (hard, soft and middle) and brushed the teeth only in directions up-down. He explained that my teethbrush could ruin the enamel by its round movements. I still use it but he gave me some kind of doubt... What do American dentist say on this?

As for teeth whitening Russian dentists say that natural healthy colour of teeth is not completely white. I consulted several dentists and all they say the same: natural colour of teeth is not white (I mean real blue-white colour). I doesn't depend on how you take care of it, it's just natural colour. The technology that they use here (and pretend this is "American technology") is that they ruin the enamel with acid completely (one just has no enamel at all after the procedure). Instead of enamel they use this special paint which is good for not more than half a year. Again, I want to thank you and all the guys who explained to me the real situation.

Tootsie

[Stan B]

... in response to Toothbrush on batteries..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

I just started using the sonicare toothbrush 2 weeks ago after my denist highly recommended it. They say its the best thing out there for your teeth. Not only does it "do the work for you" it also emits a ultrasound wave that helps loosen stains and cleans a little under the gumline.
And on another note, our daughter Katya went to the dentist in Ukraine in Sept and had 4 fillings done and when we brought her to the dentist here, there was no evidence of the fillings, just 4 huge holes were the fillings were. He just sealed them for now and she has an appointment on Jan 3rd when she will be on my insurance. This has Marina a little worried as she saw the same dentist and while she has never had any big problems, she realizes how bad their dental care was over there. Though she is looking forward to her appointment early next year too.

[Dan]

... in response to I thought so too until, posted by RW on Nov 28, 2001

There is a real mystery around the topic of dental costs and how much, if anything, dental insurance really covers.

In our case, the majority of dental work was covered under our dental plan - and the TOTAL cost was approaching $10,000 with my part of it being around $3000 or $4000. The interesting thing was, when I was transitioning to a new dental plan and there was a gap in coverage and the dentist suggested doing some work, he also offered that they would do the work at the same rate (to me) as it would have cost under the dental insurance. In other words, it would have cost me no more whether I had dental insurance or not - and the only difference was in how much the dentist's office would charge to the insurance company. I suppose what it points out is how much 'margin' is in the rates the dentists charge when there is an insurance company involved. Maybe there is a more rational explanation, but I have yet to uncover it.

FWIW

- Dan

[wsbill]

... in response to I thought so too until, posted by RW on Nov 28, 2001

Heck, if my lady has teeth problems we'll just pull'em all and get her some $300 set of dentures!
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Naw, but I will definately have to go visit my sister the dentist.

[Dan]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Olya takes (and took) fastidious care of her teeth. In spite of doing all the things you outlined (frequent brushing, regular visits to the dentis, etc.), her dental problems were significant.

The dentist here, who has seen other FSU patients, tells me it is due to a variety of factors, such as:

* use of poor materials. Some of the materials used for facades have difficulty bonding to other materials used elsewhere on the tooth.
* exceptionally poor workmanship. We had 2 cases of root canals that were left UNFILLED! In other cases, the dentist simply failed to care enough to polish the facades or improve the appearance of their workmanship.
* infrequent use of x-rays to see beneath the surface of the teeth. This is particularly important when a dentist has applied an artificial facade to a tooth and it obscures what may be going on subsurface.

It is worth noting that Olya too, had a good job in Ukraine and spent quite a lot on her teeth - too much, as it turns out. She also was not content to visit only one dentist - she checked around and saw several over the years.

Facts are - the dental practices BY THE DENTISTS in many parts of the FSU are vastly sub-standard in comparison to modern western dentists. That is not to say that someone cannot get decent care in the FSU - only that it will take some serious searching and study in order to find them.

Finally, lest you think I use only a single data point - I do not. I have many colleagues and friend in Kyiv and Lviv (and elsewhere) and the example I used above with Olya is typical of other's experiences as well.

- Dan

[ron]

... in response to Yes, You Are Badly Mistaken . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 28, 2001

i would have to agree with your findings.

[KenC]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Tootsie,
No offense, but I think the dental practice in Russia just plain sucks.  Lena went to the dentist on a regular basis, has great dental hygene and still needed many root canals and lots of work done here.  My suspicion is that the dentists there do not have the technology for preventive dental care.  They cannot fix what they don't see.
KenC

[No more RW]

... in response to Re: RW dental problems – lack of money o..., posted by KenC on Nov 28, 2001

I agree with Ken completely.