RW dental problems – lack of money or culture

[Tootsie]

Very often I read on this board reports of men who bring RW to the US and have to spend lots of money on fixing their dental problems. I wonder what’s the reason for these problems.

I guess some of men would like to tell me: “Tootsie, you can talk about it because you live in Moscow, don’t have financial problems and can afford to visit the best dentists as often as you want. You have never been in shoes of poor Ukranian girls”. That’s right but let me disagree with you. Even if I was completely poor I would still hardly have any dental problems. Why? Because it’s culture here in Moscow to have good teeth.

Let’s imagine that an American was put to the Ukraine and made as much money as most people there do. Will he in some time have as much dental problems as most people there? I doubt it. First he would brush his teeth “correctly” 5 minutes in the morning and in the evening. Second he would walk everywhere with a tooth brush and toothpaste in his pocket and would brush teeth after each meal. Third he would use dental floss. Fourth he would probably wear old shoes, boots, coats but spend as much money as it is needed for the dentist. Because it’s his culture.

Dental care is not expensive if you take care of your teeth properly and visit dentist 2-3 times a year but certainly it can be very expensive if you go to dentist once in a decade and need to fix 20 teeth.

I didn’t want to abuse your spouses by this post. Probably it wasn’t their fault that their parents didn’t teach them to take care properly of their teeth and the surrounding people paid more attention to how well a person dressed than to his mouth problems.

Am I mistaken?

Tootsie

[Ramblin]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Seems like all of the replies posted focused only on the bad dental work in the fsu.  What about the root cause of the problem teeth?  I met a beautiful lady in Ukraine that had lousy (as in messed up, ugly, black) front teeth and all of her teeth really.  And I've seen so many photos where the ladies keep their mouth closed and don't smile and upon meeting them find out that the reason is not a culture that doesn't smile but rather bad teeth.  What I'm saying is that although bad dentists and lesser technology has caused problems, the root problem is before it gets that far.  I don't know what it is.  Maybe poor hygiene, maybe lack of floride in the water, maybe weak genetic traits in that area, maybe eating or drinking stuff that is bad for teeth, maybe the environment, who knows maybe even Chernobyl???  I just broke a tooth while eating a tootsie roll and had to get a crown.  The bad thing about crowns is that insurance only pays half.  Anyway I tend to agree with what Tootsie says about culture and being taught by parents in Ukraine because some ladies teeth are o.k. and others are very bad.

[apk]

... in response to Re: RW dental problems – lack of money o..., posted by Ramblin on Nov 29, 2001

When my wife and her son first arrived here in California, her 7 y.o. boy always demanded Coca Cola when we were out and about, she also liked Cola. I explained to her that Cola is not only loaded with caffeine but also carmlized syrup and phosforic acid...both bad for the teeth. It took them a month of cola withdrawls to finally get to them both to drink milk and more water, the water was the hard part because they think all tap water is bad to drink. Now they both drink a lot of milk at each meal.
Anna told me that it was discussed in Russia that we Americans drink milk with many chemicals, and that the milk is not "natural". In Moscow her son had never drank milk at home ...just cola, he did have goats milk at her dacha but not often.

I needed to de-bunk her theory on milk here and took both her and her son to a dairy owned by a good friend of mine.
Not only did they get close-up and personal with cows being mechanically milked, they also saw the milk processed by heat pasturation and then bottled..ready for shipment to the store under very sterile conditions . She called her mom when we were back home to tell of this "new information". (smile)  She seems to do a lot of that!

Yes, fluoride is a key factor to make the enamel stronger but I think the American way of drinking milk by the gallon when we were kids says a lot also for the strength of our teeth. Good parents here do not allow their kids to demand candy and cola...as is the trend in Russia. Anna was horrified when I told her that I do not buy sweets for my child...and that my 12 y.o. daughter only drinks water and milk(she has never had a cavity). Her son is now sugar and caffeine free and his behaviour has improved a lot, he knows to not demand and accepts treats with much more appreciation now. He is a very smart kid, but lazy when it comes to doing things like reading...his spoken English is improving every day...we have to watch what we say now because he will repeat everything we say like a parrot...over and over (it was cute, but now it gets kind old) smile..

It gets better each day..with my Russian wife.

I have no real complaints!

[Dan]

... in response to Re: RW dental problems – lack of money o..., posted by Ramblin on Nov 29, 2001

You start with some pretty decent hypotheses about the problem, and then conclude with an affirmation of Tootsie's ridiculous assertion that it is a cultural issue. That assertion is both flatly wrong AND insulting. Have you any empirical evidence or direct observation to support your position??

As to your earler comments, there is definite merit to some of your thoughts. Clearly the lack of fluoridation in the water is a major contributor. Clearly there are environmental factors - and possibly genetic factors (though I doubt it) that could be contributory. There is also a likelihood that a poor diet (not bad foods - just not enough healthy foods) may also be contributing. Chernobyl?? Well, I'm not sure anyone can say definitively one way or the other, but the west does have quite a few people studying and monitoring effects of Chernobyl, so I think it is an unlikely cause.

The suggestion that this is either a cultural issue or one of personal hygiene astounds me. No-one who has ever spent time with the residents of Ukraine would make such a wild-assed assertion. Certainly there is a minority of people in all countries who are not concerned about personal hygiene, but that cannot be said about the population of Ukraine in general - at least not in truth.

And just for the record, Olya reminded me yesterday of one of our neighbors. She and her family are all from Russia - Moscow, to be specific. She is a beautiful lady and very charming. She has been a terrific help to Olya over these initial months. She also comforted Olya when we were in the early stages of getting dental work done and Olya didn't know what to expect. It turns out that this woman - from a relatively wealthy family in Moscow - had horrible problems with her teeth as well, when she first arrived in America. So I guess even Muscovites can fall victim to dental problems - no matter the source.

- Dan

[wsbill]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Along the border towns I hear of alot Americans go that route?  But don't drink the water....

[William]

... in response to Re: What about Mexican Dentist , posted by wsbill on Nov 28, 2001

Some who are straped for money go to dental schools.
This may be OK for simple stuff, IMHO, I would go to someone experienced
for the more serious or advanced stuff.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re:What about dental schools?, posted by William on Nov 29, 2001

When my sister was going through dental school she worked on my mother.  Of course, my mother paid for the gold crowns but.  But bear in mind they definately take their time when doing the work.

In fact, I had a wisdom tooth pulled at one. (Baylor in Dallas).  The put the gas to me and I was out like a light.
Woke up and all the work was done.

These are usually 3 or 4th year students, so they know what's going on.  The do alot of homeless people and down'n out.  But this is a excellent avenue...

Has anyone tried any local barber colleges for haircuts ?

[Stevo]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

My wife has/had all the same problems described by the guys below...unfinished root canals, poor materials used to fill cavities, lousy bridge work, etc., etc.  My dentist, a very concientious guy, could only describe the work charitably as 'creative'.

My wife is now having two implants, a redone root canal and a crown for around $9000.  Lots of money, but worth it in the long run.

Stevo

[apk]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Hello Tootsie!

Anna and her 7 y.o. son visited my dentist 3 weeks ago, the findings were not good. After full mouth x rays and the mouth camera snapshots Anna could not believe her mouth was in so bad shape. She visited her dentist 3 times in the month before her arrival here to "fix" a few problems and her son had a few cavities filled. She brushes her teeth twice a day and is very concerned about the whiteness and cleanliness of her teeth.

My dentist was very frank with her....she needs about $5,000
worth of re-work.When she was a teenager she had 2 root canals that in itself was o.k. but the teeth were never capped. Those 2 teeth are totally black, her russian dentist explained to her that the root canal killed the tooth so she will never have pain...but never told her that she will now lose the teeth because the enamel is crumbling
and is about to break off. She needs 2 new root canals to fix the problem her dentist caused by not drilling out the decay prior to filling her teeth. Lastly, she has never had her teeth cleaned...her gums are bleading due to lack of deep cleaning at the gums and may need to visit a Periodontist for consultation.

Her son has a different circumstance: Her russian dentist removed 4 baby teeth that were severly decayed in lieu of a root canal. This decision was made from lack of knowledge and will cause her boy to have many bite problems that can only be fixed by expensive orthodontics when he is 11 y.o. In addition he has 8 cavities that were not filled a few months ago and will definitly need 2 root canals on 2 adult teath that were filled but never drilled to remove decay.

Anna was in shock with all of these findings...had it not been for the x rays and mouth pictures she would not have believed my dentist, who by the way is a client of mine who I trust very much. He explained to her that the russian dentist just slapped a plastic filling onto the surface of the teeth and never really had explored the depth of the decay in her teeth. He warned her if she does not deal with the situation in the future, she is going to not only loose half of her teeth but will have trauma caused by the decay entering her jawbone....causing her to much pain that can not be fixed.

My suggestion Tootsie, next time you are in California visit a dentist and get consultation with x rays. If he finds you do need some work, take the x rays back to Moscow with you and get the work done there...it will be done at a fraction of the cost here. When Anna gets her green card she will go back to Moscow and her first priority to get all of her teeth redone.....she will not allow me to spend the money on her here...as always she says "too expensive".

[Stevo]

... in response to bad dentistry, posted by apk on Nov 28, 2001

My wife also wanted to go back to Moscow to have work on her teeth redone so that we would 'save' money.  I said no way, what makes you think the work will be better the second time around, even with x-rays?  They'll just do the same shoddy work as before...after all, what are you going to do about it after she returns home to the USA?

Stevo

[Tootsie]

... in response to bad dentistry, posted by apk on Nov 28, 2001

Best wishes to you upon your marriage!

You know, reading your post before going to bed is somehow like watching an horror movie...

Well, as always I hope for the best

[RW]

... in response to RW dental problems – lack of money or cu..., posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

I visited dentist's office couple months ago after I lost one of my fillings...

That was only than that I discovered that one of my root canals was not even filled and the other filling was made out of unknown material which could not been removed by any drill.... lol

Of course my problems were not major, but I have done whatever I could this year and will be going back next year again, so that I don't have to pay anything out of my pocket and have all the work covered by the insurance....

The only thing I still do not understand why some guys have to spend $10,000 upfront, but on the other hand I guess I am lucky to have two dental care plans (from my work and secondary under my husband's plan). So, it reallt depends on the situation..

[Tootsie]

... in response to I thought so too until, posted by RW on Nov 28, 2001

When I was in the US I paid attention that the vast majority of Americans had very white excellent looking teeth. First I thought (and I still think it's correct) that it's because they brush teeth after each meal, not only in the morning and in the evening as we were taught here. Even in WC at the airport it was common to see women brushing their teeth. Is it really as common "there" as I think? Did you also start to follow this habit after you moved to the US?

When I came back I consulted my dentist about whitening of teeth. He said it could be done with acid and then with special paint and if you do it once you would have to pay $300 for whitening every 6 months (plus-minus). Also, the teeth will loose their natural transparence. Actually he recommended me not to do this. Is it common in the US? Is it also as expensive?

By the way, a couple of months ago I found out that my route canal was not filled. I almost got disappointed in "Russian dental medicine" but then I found out it could happen very long ago and before "perestroika" .

Thanks in advance for your answer,

Tootsie

[BubbaGump]

... in response to May I ask a question?, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

The reason Americans teeth are so much whiter now is because we all switched to whitening toothpaste.  It has peroxide and baking soda which cleans and whitens better that the old toothpaste.  

No matter how hard you try with the old toothpaste your teeth will still be yellow.

[apk]

... in response to May I ask a question?, posted by Tootsie on Nov 28, 2001

Teeth whitening technology has recently evolved from the days when they useds an acid. This old process did in fact cause many problems ...such as thinning the enamel and as such caused tooth sensitivity to hot and cold.
The new technology is a bleaching, and fairly safe but not a perfect solution to teeth that are not naturally white.It only bleaches any stains caused by smoking or coffee/tea and can make your teeth appear a few shades whiter than they already are.
You may have seen some people with veneered front teeth, which is the process most people in the movie business get done....and that costs about $1,000 per tooth..ouch!