My trip to Cebu....with a shocking surprise

[Jaystone]

Hello Everyone!
 
I went to the Philippines for the 2nd time late August and to visit my fiance in Cebu City, Cebu.  Just to give everyone an update-I met Mira online Aug 2010.  She is single, no children, and up to a year ago worked for a tech company, but she gave it up to raise her sister's kids so her sister could work in Japan.  Mira lives with her sister's husband raises their 3 kids-A 12 year old boy and two girls, 10 and 4.  Her brother-in-law owns a tailor shop and runs a sewing school.  His wife took the job in Japan so they could earn more money to expand the business.  My first trip was in December in Leyte province in the Visalas region where her parents live.  She had moved to Cebu with the kids in April to be with their Dad.  I had a great time with Mira and her family and we fell in love and became engaged.   We decided to file for the K-1 visa in the fall and she would be here hopefully spring/summer 2012.
 
    My flight was from Detroit to Manila on Delta Airlines and Manila to Cebu using Philippine Airlines.   The Detroit to Manila leg was an 18 hour flight was pretty boring with only one overhead screen to watch movies on.  I got in to Manila around 10pm, customs was a breeze, and my final flight was not until 7am so I spent the night at the airport...one of the porters wanted me to take me to his house for night!!!  I respectfully declined.  My flight was delayed the next morning, but Philippine Airlines was very nice, comfortable, and the flight only took an hour.   Once I got outside the, there she was as beautiful as ever....it was almost like the seeing for the first time again....she brought along her sister to meet me.   After a brief kiss and long embrace, we head to a taxi and head to an apartment complex owned by another brother-in-law.  There we were greeted by the family:  both her parents, her brother-in-law,  her brother and his girlfriend, her sister, and of course, her nieces and nephew....it was like a big family reunion-everyone laughing, crying, hugging.....it was wonderful....I never felt so welcomed or loved.   It was a great moment.
 
     After taking pictures, we took a couple of tricycles over the Cebu White Sands Resort nearby.  I was only going to be there 7 days, and her family came in by Ferry from Leyte, so we decided to spend my first day there, jet lag and all, with the family, the rest of the time it would be just ourselves.   The White Sands was a very first class place...I would rate it 9 out of 10.  It had two swimming pools, game room massage therapists on staff, a private beach, water sports, spacious rooms, with ocean views,  everything.  This was a 5 star resort I would not have been able to afford if it were not for Agoda(I highly recommend them!).  Most of the guests there were Koreans, Japanese, and Europeans.  Best Hotel I have ever been too, bar none.  The only complaint I would have would be the beach....It was nasty and dirty.  After checking in, it was still morning, so we all decided to go swimming.  Man, did we ever have a great time!  It just fun splashing around having fun, Mira was really taking good care of me, making sure I was comfortable, keeping me cool, fanning me...I tried to stop her, but she refused, making sure I was comfortable before she was...wow.   We then had a buffet lunch, were everything was first class.  They served Filipino and American food, could not been any better.  Mira did not leave my side the whole time, making sure I had enough to eat and drink, really taking care of me....Man, I felt great!
 
     Well, after lunch, did more swimming and picture taking, the family finally went home.   Finally! Mira and I were alone!  We missed each other so much!...It was only 8 months since I last seen here but it was like 8 years...We went exploring around the resort, then we went to our room and unpacked.   I was exhausted, so we went to bed early.  It was around 2 in the morning when Mira was crying, very loudly...I asked her what was the matter...she told me she had something she should have told me a long ago, but could not bring herself to tell me, but she could no longer hold it....I told her that she can tell me anything, it would not change how I feel about her....she was going to be my wife!  I told her you can tell me anything....we are in this together.   Well, she told me...
 
She told me that her youngest niece, Yanna, 4 years old was not her niece after all.....it was her own daughter!!!
 
 I was shocked, angry, pissed all rolled into one....I was thinking, how could she lie about something like this!! Why would she lie about having a child??!?!?  I was so mad I just got up and told her I had to go out....I was livid!!  I was so angry...Mira was crying so hard, but I did not care....for an instant I just wanted to forget everything and just go home!! I went outside and walked around for a about an hour to calm down.  I decided to give her a chance to explain herself before I passed any judgment...I returned to the room and she was in the bathroom crying...she would not come out.  I had to drag her out of there.   We both sat in the dark silent on the bed for about 20 minutes before I started asking questions...
 
Who is the father?  Her ex-boyfriend from 4 years ago.
 
Is he around? No.  He was at first was happy, but like a typical deadbeat, was never around for the pregnancy and was never laid eyes on the child and of course, does not give any support.  He has had no contact with her or her family and has not been seen again since she was two months pregnant. 
 
Biggest question...WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME!?!?!?? She was ashamed being an unwed mother, she had two online foreign "boyfriends"(whom I knew about) who knew she had a child but they both turned out they were not serious…so she changed her profile…hoping to find someone serious…I know it was after the fact, but I told her anybody who would truly be interested would accept the fact she was a mom.   She was also afraid I would leave…..I asked…WOULDN’T YOU THINK I WOULD LEAVE IF YOU TOLD ME ALMOST A YEAR LATER YOU HAD A CHILD??!??.  I was at a loss.  It also in my profile I was willing to accept someone with children!! She also told me her family was urging her to tell me about Yanna.  They all confronted her 1 day before I arrived and told her to tell me…
 
What now? I asked…well she said she did not expect me to support Yanna or even bring her to the states…..REALLY???  That is your child!!! You cannot just leave her!! You are her Mom!!!  Well, I told her if we were to continue, Yanna would have to be part of the plan.   I lost my mom when I was a child, and I could not imagine or feel right just leaving her there. Mira and Yanna   I later found out that her older sister(the one in Japan) took her as one of her own and would continue to raise Yanna, even after Mira leaves.  Then I thought about it….Mira’s sister will not see her kids for 3 years…maybe it is not so different.   Mira told me she did not want me to have to raise or support Yanna because she is not my daughter….she would support her herself when she got a job in the states……I was taken aback with that statement…I cannot see myself leaving Yanna without her mom..
 
Sorry for the long opening post-but before I continue my report, with my outcome…but I wanted everyone’s opinion on this...thanks in advance!
 
Jaystone
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[michaelb]

Been in the exact same situation myself. In 1974 V. failed to show up at my hotel in Mexico City as she was supposed to. I guess she got the date mixed up, and since she didn't have a phone, I took the pink subway line out to Zaragosa station and walked the 3 or 4 blocks to the house I'd been to many times before in the preceding couple of years, went through the courtyard and knocked on her door. A little girl about 2 years old opened the door and said (in Spanish, of course) "Mommy, there's a man here at the door"........that was the first time I knew that V. had a child. Her excuse was "I thought you wouldn't want me if you knew I had a child", my response was "Well I would have had to think about it long and hard, but I sure don't want you now that you've lied to me". ........................I've often regretted that decision, or at least asked myself "What if?"  twenty thousand times......Your millage may vary......but don't be hasty in your decision as I was.

[fathertime]

Wow, that is pretty bad Jaystone.  Not that she has the innocent child, but the LYING for over a year about her.  This is really bad behavior and I can see why you were so angry. .  She brought you in rather deep and then gave you the real scoop after you are sorta committed, but the commitment was based on a pretty big lie.


I guess you are going to have to forgive her if you want to stay with her.  You could never hold this against her IF you decided to forgive her.  With this type of judgement of hers, I’d be pretty concerned about other situations arising over the course of a marriage and how she would handle them.  I guess you probably love everything else about her so it is going to be a difficult call I imagine.  Good luck with whichever direction you go!


Fathertime! 

[piglett]

red flag !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
man your battle stations
ready the life boats
we mite be in for a rough ride boys & girls
 
 
well Jay it's really up to you .....however i would say you at least have to take a step back & think long & hard. I would have to walk, i don't have any children & I'll be dam if i am going to raise another mans child. no Sir no this guy!!! having said that i wouldn't be able to trust this chick so it would be over.sorry to be blunt but i call em like i see em.
 
good luck
pig
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Gato4Astrid]

Jay, I am very sorry about it.   You have waste your time, your money, and especially your emotion from someone who lied!


Honesty is always the best policy.


By the way, you would have found out even if she still kept in secret - application form in VISA ??!!


I had a date from a lady in Colombia who lied about her age by almost 10 years.  I ended the relationships not because of her age, it is because of her being dishonesty.  If she lied about her age, then she could lie about something else.


I hope you will find someone who deserves to have you.  Once again, I am very sorry about it.....

[Researcher]

  Sorry to hear about you not so good surprise Jaystone.That's a pretty significant lie she told you.Just think about what else she may not be telling you.Not a good sign, move on.


     Researcher

[Ray]

 
Well Jay, I certainly understand why you were upset.
　
If you have not made a decision on this yet, then I would follow michaelb’s advice and not rush into anything right away, but give it some deep, long thought.
　
There is one option that I would not even consider at this time. DO NOT marry this girl and leave her child behind. In a couple of years, she would undoubtedly change her mind and want to bring the girl over. It would be a very simple process to include the child as a K-2 on her fiancée visa application, but a much more complicated and involved process to petition her child separately a year or two later.
　
Also, after the truth came out, what are the chances that there is something else that she isn’t telling you? More children? A legal marriage that you don’t know about? I know it is likely that she has told you everything, but any of those other things, if they came out later when her visa is being processed, would be an automatic visa buster and then you would really be up Shyt Creek.
　
Just to protect yourself and make sure there are no more surprises, I would get official original NSO copies of her birth certificate, her child’s birth certificate, a CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriage). Also, an NBI Police Clearance, a recent copy of her baptism certificate, and if she has a passport, a complete copy of all pages, before you file anything with CIS. These are documents that she would probably need to submit with her visa application anyway.
　
Whatever your decision, I wish you all the best…
　
Ray
　

[AndyLee]

Jay, this is a heart wrenching story and we are all sympathetic to you. It is a tragedy of sorts that the girl has lied to you, but it is not the end of the world. Michaelb and Ray are giving you good advice.  I agree with them 100%.
From personal experience I know of a man who's mother was only 15 when he was born. The family arranged it to look like the child's grandmother was the real mother and she raised the boy as if it were true. All his life he thought his "older sister" was just his sister until he was in his 30's he found out she is actually his birth mother. This was the family of the banker in my home town, the most influential family in the county and they had this secret for over 30 years. How many lies were told by how many people during that 30 years? Yet this family is one of the happiest and most loving families I know. The birth mother and the grandmother are super good people and they only did this one thing wrong in their whole life.
Maybe, as some of the others on this thread have said, this girl is a liar and has probably lied about a lot of other things. But, maybe she hasn't told you any other lies and maybe she loves you enough that she really is willing to have her sister raise the little girl.
Going through the steps Ray has suggested will give you a lot more information to make a decision.
In my opinion, there are two schools of thought regarding marrying a woman with  children. Either you are going to "help her raise her child" or you don't want to help a woman "raise another man's child".
The first school of thought is from love and acceptance, the second school of thought is less positive.

[robert angel]

Jaystone,

This is quite an unfortunate turn. It seems obvious that you still have strong feelings for this woman. Besides her being beautiful, there are other characteristics that obviously made you feel she'd make a great wife. A lie like she put forth upon you was a 'lie of omission'. From my experience, they can be the most hurtful, with long lasting repercussions, things that just linger in the mind for a long time, sometimes never going away. Sometimes you can move on, sometimes things are never quite the same. Sometimes, after giving it a lot of thought, it's decided that things are simply unacceptable.

It's of concern that the rest of the family was 'on to this' and I wonder if the little girl was 'coached' to not call Mira 'Mommy' when you were around. This sounds bad, but from what I have seen, some Filipinas are rather naive and can put themselves in a very strong state of denial, trying to pretend one situation isn't a problem that has to be dealt with, when another situation is so good. Here and now, we think 'How could anyone not know that sooner or later, you would find out about Yanna?". If it was a group acting manipulatively in deception, I think it's worse than one person.

Supposedly the rest of the family knew and went along with it for a while. That, in and of itself is disturbing, because if some of them were in fact, telling her to admit the situation, their are some more realistic, mature family members who were trying to get her to 'do the right thing' for some time now.

I wonder if she was thinking that after you married and she came to the USA that she would somehow let you know? Almost certainly, she would be sending money home, maybe saying it was for the whole family, but really most of it earmarked for Yanna. Important days, like her birthday, first communion--her school grades and graduations, would all be significant. I know that some women feel that by leaving their home country, getting a better life and job that they could provide more money and  with that a better life. She was planning on working and sending money home--I assume she explained that before, that it was agreed upon, if not totally specified to whom and for what the money would go. I think a Filipina sending money home should be a foregone conclusion.

Even with some experience with the Filipino mindset, I can't imagine that she thought you'd never find out.

In the USA, most would think that the thought of leaving their only child, a child w/o a father figure, on the other side of the planet is unthinkable, but from my experience, many Filipinas would think of themselves (truthfully) as more like martyrs, sacrificing direct involvement to provide better schooling opportunities and other things. We can't completely apply our mindset--our rules to how they think--it's different.

But that doesn't change how you feel and what you deem acceptable. I think it's especially sad, because in your profile, you indicated you'd be accepting of a woman with a child already. I had that in my profile too I seem to be in the minority on it, but I always. felt that if you married a woman who had a child already and gave them both a better life and opportunities, that it would make the marital and just the overall relationship stronger and more likely to last.

Jaystone, it was a tough hit you took--a 'lie of omission' when you had already made it known that what she lied about was not a deal breaker--that you were open to accepting a child. She played you. You have a lot of emotions and a significant amount of time and money expended already. I would advise you step back and at least postpone any timeline you've made. Give it all some serious thought. Not to punish her, but to clear the air so you can think it all over. You have to decide if what she and her family put forth is an unfortunate chain of events that started out by one thing---her 'not mentioning' something she should have, or if it's indicative of their character as a whole.

Ray is invaluable here and heed his advice. Is she totally coming clean about the father of the child having NO role here? Is his NAME on the child's birth certificate? Is he going to complicate matters and demand money and other concessions if this is the case? I would step back and if you choose to pursue, you need some honest answers and to SEE proof--documentation as Ray indicated.
 
If you're going to carry on with this relationship, there are a number of things you should strongly consider. As indicated, it is very important that you ascertain that Mira's never been married before (CENOMAR)--otherwise an annulment would take years and cost a great deal.

I would tell her that if there's ANYTHING else she should tell you, that she needs to think long and hard has one week and that if there's anything that she hasn't told you that you should know, that you're no longer going to be there. After that week (assuming you're still communicating) you will need additional time, I wouldn't advise making a decision then and there--it wouldn't be fair to either of you. Yes, this will be hell on her, but she brought this upon herself and it certainly isn't easy for you either.

This could have happened to any of us--don't feel stupid. You have done things quite well--if you filed fiance visa paperwork right after the first visit, greater possible complications could have occurred in addition to this. Your heart seems in the right place--you just need to step back, regroup and think as clearly and objectively as possible, as your decision will have very long term ramifications.
 
Again, I'd advise stepping back, seeking consul here, from others you truly trust and making a decision after giving it at least a month.
 
Good luck--You deserve it!

[JWR]

Jaystone,
Ouch!  Always painful to be lied to.
People in desperate situations often do desperate things. I don't know what her situation is, or the true motivations behind them, but it's clearly a different culture, and surprises are not uncommon with completely different thinking.
When I read your post, the one thing that would concern me the most is her willingness to leave her child behind.  To me that shows a cold calculating side of her that would really scare me.  I just would not want to marry a women who would leave her child behind.  If she is willing to leave her child behind for some improvements to her life in the future, she may be just as willing to leave you in the future, if she sees that as a benefit.  Also you never really know what the backup plan is considering she has already proven herself to be less then honest. 
In the back of her mind is she planning to get a job, leave you if necessary, and then bring her child over?  What is she really thinking?
After someone lies, all things become suspect until trust is re-built.  That may take a long time, or maybe never.
In the best of circumstances these marriages are risky.  As we go into these relationships, we usually down play the risk, and don't face the seriousness of damage that is done to our lives, it things don't work out down the road.
Yanna may turn out to be the most special thing that ever came into your life.  I sure know that I would be open to marrying a women with a little girl.
I have no idea what I would do in your shoes......  Well, I would slow down anyway.

[robert angel]

If I had a dollar for every Filipina who moved overseas to take a job, leaving children behind with relatives, I'd be a multimillionaire. The reality in a nation where 30  million people make less than a dollar a day is that often the only way to get out of such desperate poverty and provide a good education and other things for your children, is to leave them and travel to a land that offers more promise. The saying 'you marry a Filipina--you marry her family' is very true and you need to reealize this early on and work out details--what's acceptable, before you marry, as much as reasonably possible.
 
That doesn't change the fact that this was serious lie of omission and one that raises questions about character, maturity and the people around her. Jaystone knows a lot more about her and perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to judge--the gentleman needs time to sort all this out and the best we can probably do is point out what we see as obvious and share what we know about Filipino culture.
 
JWR has some excellent points--when in love, we do tend to downplay possible risks and people in desperate situations will do desperate things. What she did may seem cold and calculating, but it can also be immature, confused and desperate acts.

Glad to see a couple other guys who are open to marrying a woman with a child. As said, I thought bringing another child to join my two biological children would've been a good idea. Knowing Filipinas and how devoted, near or far away that they are to their family, I felt that with a solid Filipina, having kids together would help us to weather the roughest of storms, that rather than increasing risk, it was more like insurance of sorts.

I have never seen people as thankful for acts of kindness as Filipinos. My support of my wife's family and our overall relationship  with  one another, is one of the anchors that holds our marriage together. I have no doubt my wife married me for love, but I also have no doubt that she married me and came to the USA with the expectation of a better life, most certainly including the ability to improve her family's standard of living back home by sending aid. If money and some other things weren't an issue, we'd both be living over there most of the time and that care and concern will never stop.

[Tanuki]

Jaystone:
 
Thanks for sharing your story.  There is some great advice that has been given in response to your report.  I tired to put myself in your shoes and I am still not sure how I would act.  I know when I was searching, I was looking for a woman without children.  I also made that clear in my initial contacts with any of the woman I was talking/writing to.  So based off that,  I think I would have walked away if this would have happened to me.  I am not suggesting you should do the same by any means.  You are open to children.
 
But the biggest concern, as already mentioned, there has been a violation of trust.  Do you honestly feel that you can trust anything that she tells you going from this point on?  Don't let thoughts on time, energy and money tip the scale in deciding which way to go.  I know that is easier said then done but, this is your life.  When you are talking to someone on the other side of the planet and you can't see each other every day.  Trust is all you have to fill in that gap.  If you are going to stick with her, I agree with what Ray said.  I would put everything on slow burn and maybe make a few more trips.  That way you can rebuild the trust needed before packing her up and moving her over here.
 
Not that I am trying to be cold but, there are other fish in the sea.  If you have any doubt, I would not go forward with this relationship until that doubt is completely gone.
 
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.
 

[InnocentVixen]

Jaystone, it is awful she waited this long to tell you and that she lied to you in the first place, going as far as dragging her family to be part of this, you obviously care about this lady or you would have be done with it by now, if you decide to continue this like others said I think you should slow down until you can trust her again, make sure she tells you any other "little details" she might have found convenient not to mention.

When I read your post, the one thing that would concern me the most is her willingness to leave her child behind.

I am all for honesty and bluntness even if its borderline rude... however I share JWR's concern, do you really want to be with someone like this? I would guess if you don't plan to have children it's ok, but if you are... is this the kind of mother you want for your children? sorry if I sound harsh but I have no sympathy for this kind of women no matter where they are from, then again I have a very strong opinion on this and I am the type that thinks that women that leave their children with a nanny all day (or relatives) are not worthy of being mothers unless of course they are single mothers and have no choice... if she marries you she no longer qualifies as a single mother in my eyes.

If I had a dollar for every Filipina who moved overseas to take a job, leaving children behind with relatives, I'd be a multimillionaire.

I am not very familiar with the culture, so that might be normal over there, just don't forget Jaystone you are not a job, this woman is willing to leave her child to be with you... the man she loves... unless she really is doing it for her child, in that case wouldn't that just make you part of the requirement to be able to get a decent job? don't let the fact that she is having a hard time with no help from the father of the kid turn you into her white knight, don't feel guilty if you think she might be using you.

[fathertime]

When I read your post, the one thing that would concern me the most is her willingness to leave her child behind.  To me that shows a cold calculating side of her that would really scare me.  I just would not want to marry a women who would leave her child behind.  If she is willing to leave her child behind for some improvements to her life in the future, she may be just as willing to leave you in the future, if she sees that as a benefit.  Also you never really know what the backup plan is considering she has already proven herself to be less then honest. 
In the back of her mind is she planning to get a job, leave you if necessary, and then bring her child over?  What is she really thinking?
 

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with JWR here.  Unless circumstances are truly dire, an otherwise capable mother that is willing to leave her child is frightening.  If she is willing to separate from her child, she is almost certainly willing to do other things that I would find objectionable and I would might always wonder.   I think most ladies would not allow their minds to go where hers has gone.   


Fathertime! 

[Jaystone]

Wow.  Thanks everyone who has responded.   I really appreciate it.   It has really helped me gain some clarity in this situation.  I am going to continue with what happened tell everyone where I stand as of now. 
 
Well, after we cleared the air, I told her I appreciated her finally telling me the truth, but I was disappointed.   I told her I would not leave her for the time being, but we definitely needed to talk.  She asked if I wanted to leave her.  I told…I that I did not, but we have re-evaluate everything….I asked her Is there anything else you want to tell me? She said no…are you sure?  Yes.   I did tell her that a relationship is based on trust….and now you have lost yet…we would have to rebuild it again….we were both tired, and it was going on 4 in the morning, so we went to sleep.  I woke up later overhearing her talking to her family….she later told me she told everyone what happened and now the entire family wanted to meet with me….ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Fine.   I figured it would be interesting to hear what they had to say… Mira and I had breakfast still discussing the “re-evaluation” of our relationship….we finally took a maxi-cab to her brother-in-laws house.
 
When we arrived, the entire family was in the living room waiting for us…they even had her sister in Japan online on the computer, as well her younger sister who married a Filipino-American now living in San Francisco!   Wow.   I thought I was on trial…basically everyone apologized for Mira for not being totally honest with me.  They emphatically pleaded with her ever since we met online to tell me about her daughter.   Her Father CRIED IN SHAME-he as so embarrassed.  Wow.  I had to admit, it was very moving…I could not help but  wonder…was he crying because he was really sorry for what had happened or was it because the gravy train was coming to an end!!(I’m kidding!!! I joke to relieve stress).  I don’t think the family was purposely trying to deceive me….I do truly believe they really wanted to Mira to tell me the truth, but felt it was not their place to do the right thing.   Everyone understood how I felt and could not blame me if I left….but they wanted me to think clearly and give Mira another chance….they also stated that they would raise Yanna and are not expecting anything from me….well, I told them what I told her….I thanked them for their understanding, but I was taking this one day at a day time….and Mira would have to rebuild trust with me….I spent the rest of my time their enjoying lunch and spending time with the family….paying particular attention to Yanna, seeing her in a whole different light.
 
Since I have been back, here is where everything stands…we are still together, but…
 
I postponed filing the visa.
 
I postponed the wedding…she still has the ring.
 
I am getting official copies of her birth certificate, her child’s birth certificate, copies of her birth certificate, Yanna’s child’s birth certificate, certificate of no marriage her NBI police clearance, and her passport. 
 
We communicate everyday, but I have to admit is not the same as before, especially if I hear/see Yanna in the background.
 
Right now, I just don’t know….I love her to death, and since I have been with her she has not asked for a lot, does not ask for any money and is in a decent situation at home…I would consider her family poor middle class… and I know it is a culture thing, but I cannot still believe she is willing to leave her kid behind….I have a question to Ray…why would it be more difficult file a K2 after the finance’ arrives? Do a lot of Filipino families do this…the few people I have told about the situation here think…it would be unthinkable leaving her kid behind….Mira loves her child…I have seen it firsthand…just do not know… I did not realize after coming home what an emotional drain this would be…
 
I do not think she was trying to deceive me forever, her sister is in the states on a K1 visa so the truth would have came out before after I filed.  I was going to file as soon I came back to the states, so she new she had to tell me before I left.
 
Well, that is all I can think of for now.  Again, your thoughts and opinions on this would be appreciated.   
 
 
To be continued!
 
Jaystone
 
 
 
 
 
 

[JR33]

    That's awesome Jaystone. The decision to break up or not is yours but I think you handled it well so far.Many guys would have ran away from the situation to a more safe place.You are going after what you want in a way that is smart not afraid to face the situation. Good for you.

[piglett]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with JWR here.  Unless circumstances are truly dire, an otherwise capable mother that is willing to leave her child is frightening.  If she is willing to separate from her child, she is almost certainly willing to do other things that I would find objectionable and I would might always wonder.   I think most ladies would not allow their minds to go where hers has gone.   


Fathertime!

DITTO
 
I'm a straight shooter & i don't wish to deal with people who are not the same. I myself could never trust this woman.
 
 
pig

[Ray]

I have a question to Ray…why would it be more difficult file a K2 after the finance’ arrives? Do a lot of Filipino families do this…the few people I have told about the situation here think…it would be unthinkable leaving her kid behind….Mira loves her child…I have seen it firsthand…just do not know… I did not realize after coming home what an emotional drain this would be…

　
When you file the K-1 Fiancée visa petition, you must list all of her children. As long as the child is listed on the petition, she would be eligible for a derivative K-2 visa along with mom. This is practically automatic for unmarried minor children of the applicant.
　
Normally, the child would accompany mom with her own passport and visa and both the K-1 & K-2 are treated alike throughout most of the immigration process, including adjustment of status and optional naturalization, unless things have changed recently.
　
If the child does not apply for a K-2 visa and travel here with mom, then she could still obtain a K-2 visa and travel here within 1 year of mom’s arrival.
 
After a year, the child would no longer be eligible for a derivative K-2 visa. Then your best option would be to petition the child as your step-child on a separate immigrant visa, which is more costly, takes more paperwork, and takes longer to process. The immigrant mother could also petition her own child but that would take even longer.
　
The whole process of bringing the child over is so much simpler if it is done along with mom. I know of a few cases where mom came over alone and the child was petitioned later, but nearly all K-1s do it as a family.
　
In the Philippines, many women leave the kids at home with a spouse or relatives to work overseas because the kids aren’t welcome to accompany mom and there are very few decent jobs available in the PI, especially for married women. Some women automatically lose their job when they marry. Typically, their overseas employment contract will include a two week vacation every year with paid transportation home.
　
There are also quite a few paperless adoptions where a well-off childless couple may just "borrow" an extra child, from a relative or even an acquaintance, to raise as their own. That’s another reason to check closely all those birth certificates and other documents.
　
I know of several guys, including former members here, who didn’t find out that their fiancée was really legally married until it came out at her visa interview after routine document checks. At least you found out before any papers were filed, which normally would have rendered everything void once it came out. Remember that there is virtually no divorce in the Philippines, so any lady listing herself on a dating site as "divorced" should be avoided.
　
Jay, I think you are doing the right thing by putting everything on hold for now until it all gets sorted out and the trust returns.
 
Good luck!
 
Ray

[Gato4Astrid]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with JWR here.  Unless circumstances are truly dire, an otherwise capable mother that is willing to leave her child is frightening. If she is willing to separate from her child, she is almost certainly willing to do other things that I would find objectionable and I would might always wonder.   I think most ladies would not allow their minds to go where hers has gone.   


Fathertime!

I agree with FT there! 

[Gato4Astrid]

 
she has not asked for a lot, does not ask for any money and is in a decent situation at home…I would consider her family poor middle class…
 

She did not have to ask you for any money because her sisters live in America/Japan and one of the brother-in-law has a business.    My ex-girlfriend did not ask me for money because her ex-husband had been paying her for child's support. 
 
Just keep your eyes wide open!  And good luck ...

[Researcher]

I agree with FT there!

   Ditto 

[Jeff S]

Those who believe that it is shocking and a huge negative to hear a woman may agree to separate from her child to pursue a better life in the long term are looking at it from a Western perspective - where agreed, it seems shocking. To you it probably sounds selfish. She's Asian, though, where this is culturally a common thing to do, where her child will be well taken care of by a loving family, something that is also not uncommon in her part of the world, and where she and everyone else perceive it as a selfless, rather than selfish thing to do. This is another of the cultural differences, I often comment about  needing to understand and be in-sync with if your relationship is to succeed. The deception, though, is not so easily forgiven or written off as a cultural difference.


Jay - I think you're doing exactly the right thing. Take your time to see behind all that has transpired, time to sort through your and her feelings and motivations, and time to see if the trust can be rebuilt.

[robert angel]

Those who believe that it is shocking and a huge negative to hear a woman may agree to separate from her child to pursue a better life in the long term are looking at it from a Western perspective - where agreed, it seems shocking. To you it probably sounds selfish. She's Asian, though, where this is culturally a common thing to do, where her child will be well taken care of by a loving family, something that is also not uncommon in her part of the world, and where she and everyone else perceive it as a selfless, rather than selfish thing to do. This is another of the cultural differences, I often comment about  needing to understand and be in-sync with if your relationship is to succeed. The deception, though, is not so easily forgiven or written off as a cultural difference.


Jay - I think you're doing exactly the right thing. Take your time to see behind all that has transpired, time to sort through your and her feelings and motivations, and time to see if the trust can be rebuilt.

Very true. It's hard to convey the sense of 'family' that exists among many Filipinos, especially among the women. I have known Filipinas who took awful jobs in awful countries, enduring long, miserable hours, because they could make money to provide a much needed better life for their children.

I consider them to be like martyrs in that they will endure great suffering out of devotion for their loved ones. I try not to ask my wife all the things she does for her family or exactly how much money she sends home--she has 'discretionary income' for that. She sees it differently than I do and as we do pretty much OK 'as is', I just accept that she's always going to help out and I know that if our finances got in trouble, she'd make our situation higher priority.

If a woman is single and elderly over there, often a younger sister or even a niece will take her into her home and care for her--you don't hear much, if anything of 'nursing homes' over there--I know of just one instance where a elderly man had violent dementia and they found a care home--I forget what they called it, but it wasn't a 'nursing home' or 'mental institution 'and they only put him there as a last resort, as there were a lot of small kids who he could've hurt.

My wife has told me a number of times that many years from now, she'd never put me in a 'nursing home', that it's just unthinkable to her. She was appalled when she wanted us to volunteer to visit 'shut ins' at a local nursing home and found out how many forms, legal releases and the background check we had to go through.

I think a lot of times Americans think of at least some of their family members as liabilities, as problems in their lives, whereas most Filipinos I have seen think quite the opposite. Even when a family member has done something disappointing over there, they may tell them they're disapointed, but it seems their support is unconditional--once again, especially on the female side. It's hard to explain and I don't claim to understand the half of it, but it is very different than in the USA, for sure.

You marry a good Filipina and chances are when it's 'your time' unless you HAVE to be in a hospital, you will die at home, rather than in a nursing home.

When we pass judgement on Jaystone's Mira and their 'situation', we have to remember that we're applying our mindset to another mindset that really is very different from our own.

[Bob_S]

Unless circumstances are truly dire, an otherwise capable mother that is willing to leave her child is frightening.

From what I understand, circumstances are pretty dire.  For some families, the choice is go abroad to work so the family can eat, or die.  From what I've read here and elsewhere, and from what I've seen personally in my travels, one of the top exports of the Phils is labor.  Millions of family at home survive on remittances.  Everyone knows someone who works abroad: fathers and uncles as construction workers in UAE, mothers or aunts as maids in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Saudi Arabia, sisters as, ahem, hostesses in Japan.  Any kids are left with the mother's parents who use the remittances to send the kids to decent schools so they can get a quality education they otherwise could not get if the mother stayed at home with the family to starve.  It seems anathema to us because we come from a settler culture.  A hundred years ago, if we faced starvation, we'd pack up our family in a Conestoga wagon and head west.  Filipinos don't really have that option today.  So for Jay's gf, it makes perfect sense to go abroad alone to help the family.

What pings my radar is her attitude that of course she will find a job to send money back home, as if her duties as a wife to Jay are just another job she must endure to support her real family back in the Phils.  It feels as if she's just using him.  I'm well aware that it is common for Pinays to want to work and send money back to her parents.  But that is in addition to her duties as a wife that come first.  But with this one, I don't know.

Jay, if you aren't going to dump her right away, and if you are going to take time to think it over, I recommend you spend as much time as possible with your future step-child.  In fact, spend time with just the little girl and your gf's dad as chaperon, without the gf around, to see how you get along.  If you don't get along with the child, whether the child comes with you and mom to America or not, things will go bad between you and the mother.  I just see it getting ugly years down the road.  If you're looking for an excuse to patch things up with the gf, clicking with the child as she finds a place in your heart may just be the ticket.

[robert angel]

I have heard that an estimated thirty million--close to one third of the population of Filipinos, exist on less than the equivalent of one US dollar a day. A very small percentage of the population has almost all the wealth--they own the electrical utilities, malls, transportation systems, etc., and have tremendous political influence.

When I am there, I feel that govt. corruption is unchangable--so endemic, so deep, that it must run to the very core of the planet.

The nation already has to import a substantial amount of rice and that and other essentials are not cheap. Pretty much everything is taxed. There's NO free lunch, never mind breakfast, in school for the kids. The previous president ran a campaign promising "A computer in every school", which of course never happened.

For the grown ups, there's no unemployment insurance or welfare and labor law is a joke--what laws they do have are usually ignored, as unemployment is so high, they always find countless people who will actually work for nothing 'to train' then sign govt. forms they will be paid the legal wage AFTER they've worked months for FREE. Then they actually are paid a fraction of the 'legal wage'. Nurses buy their own nurse uniforms, stethoscopes, latex gloves & other supplies and work for free to get 'experience' working in hospitals, hoping they may get hired eventually.

If you're old, say over 30, and especially if you're a woman, your chances of landing a decent job diminish greatly.

 If someone's not working or otherwise bringing in income there, you starve to death.

It is so ironic that a people in such a seemingly hopeless situation can be so kind and generous and still find reasons to thank God, to laugh and most importantly, to spend meaningful time with one another.

Maybe it's because for so many, family is the only real, precious thing they have.