JAXPAUL Barranquilla Trip Report Feb/Mar 2011

[Colgando]

Well Colando, given your age and that fact that this new world has opened up to you, you might consider going a whole bunch of times before actually committing to any one particular woman.  
I read the book War and Peace by Tolstoy,and I remember early in the book the sentiment was to only get married:
'when you are completely worn out and worthless and seeing women is no longer fun, when you have sewn all your oats and are completely broke and are on your last legs of being able to attract a suitable woman.'
That is not an exact quote but it does depict the sentiment, and it is something to at least consider!  For a young guy like yourself, you have plenty of time to enjoy the samples a bit that way you will have experienced what all your options were and make a more informed choice.  

Fathertime!

Yes sir...that is where my thoughts are now, build-up a bullpen and see if I want to eventually call one of them to the mound. Yeah man, I made such an uninformed decision last time, a man has to get on the ground and get some real life experience with this adventure. Judge a Colombiana by her actions, not her words, that takes time to see that play out, especially in the age group I am looking in, I really like Jamie's place and I really like the Coast, it is a good fit for me. The ticket prices have gone up about $150 from my last trip however, the cost of going there is easy for me to manage on a 3 month cycle, I have the cash and the vacation days, let's go. Next time I will do it much cheaper, no need to spend a ton of money like I did last time with all those meal dates and I will not be using a translator.

[sticky2]

Nice report Jax,

I could totally see spending $5k for that many days at an agency in BAQ, especially during Carneval, and then also traveling to cartegena as well.  I spent like $2,500 on my little side trip to Jamies agency a couple years ago, and that was only 5 days.  When you include plane tx, agency costs, hotels, nice dinners, alcohol, bla bla bla.... it adds up in a hurry.

Yeah, yeah, we all know if you are really price concious you can do it for way less, but if you're not paying attention, and just having a good time, the money dissappears fast.

[camara73]

Hey  Jax, by me beina brotha im curious to know more of what you saw and heard. please elaborate on this

[t3plea]

Hey  Jax, by me beina brotha im curious to know more of what you saw and heard. please elaborate on this

I was thinking the same thing.....I will be taking a trip to columbia in a few months and would also like to know what you heard and saw so that i am informed before i arrive

Good report by the way

[Colgando]

I am black myself, a moreno by Latin American standards and I recently went to Colombia. I had plenty of beautiful, quality women interested in me, of all shades and colors and I enjoyed my experience. I am sure many women deselected me because of my skin color, many black women at that. I did not hear much about the race thing because I do not spend much time thinking about it or asking questions about it, it is all a shallow discussion from my point of view, only skin deep. I prefer to talk about the content of a person's character. I am aware from my research that black people have a more difficult time than lighter skin people getting good jobs and advancing economically in Colombia, same as the US I suppose. So I suspect that many women associate being with a black guy as putting herself at an economic disadvantage which puts her at a disadvantage in life. I never paid much mind to it because if a woman is not interested in me because of my skin color, that is fine, whether it be for a personal preference or for a more looking out for her rational self-interest purpose. The woman I marry one day will love my skin color and I hers. I am the type of brother to break stereotypes and change hearts and minds, all the women I dated in Colombia recognized that I am a solid man and a good catch. My character broke through any preconceived notions they had about black men. I imagine Jax heard some typical stuff that is said about Black men in the US, along the same lines.

[pchip]

Personally, I don't play much with the race card as well.  If a women doesn't want me because I'm black, it's just too bad for her.  However I'm still interested in what JaxPaul said, just by curiosity to hear how different the race card is played there (agree though that it's probably not much different than the US or Canada).

[fathertime]

Personally, I don't play much with the race card as well.  If a women doesn't want me because I'm black, it's just too bad for her. 

That seems like a reasonable position to take.  No one man can appeal to every woman, and I have always been able to accept that this is the case and focus on the pool of ladies that are interested.


Fathertime!

[CalifSur]

Personally, I don't play much with the race card as well.  If a women doesn't want me because I'm black, it's just too bad for her.  However I'm still interested in what JaxPaul said, just by curiosity to hear how different the race card is played there (agree though that it's probably not much different than the US or Canada).

I am a white (non-hispanic) guy so can't comment directly. But it does seem like Colgando and Jaxpaul both had very successful trips meaning they dated lots of girls. 
 
That said, I didn't catch nearly the amount of flack that Colgando did when departing Barranqilla (3 searches of his carry-on, etc).  Those Colombian customs agents in the airport were pretty mean/cold but I got through with only one search. 
 
I've got a female cousin who is blonde hair/blue eyes and it is no exaggeration to say she is SMOKING HOT.  Growing up I had buddies of mine begging me to set them up with her.  She got married to her college sweetheart who is an African-American guy. 
 
A number of years ago I was with them on a trip to Jamaica.  Her husband (boyfriend at the time) got major scrutiny trying to leave Jamaica.  Well, ok maybe he could be confused as "looking Jamaican" but NOT once he opens his mouth and talks, he's clearly American. So go figure.
 
But I think the larger point is be yourself and you will find a nice lady for yourself.  The ones who eliminate you based on race are not worthy of your time anyway.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[whitey]

Re Colombian customs in Cartagena and Barranquilla:

As you can see from my profile picture and my screen name (haha), I'm pretty white.  It's very normal to have your bags checked 2 or 3 times when leaving Colombia.  Getting your bag checked only once is pretty rare in my experience.

I've always found the airport staff, DAS, and customs in Colombia to be VERY nice, and often the women are quite attractive ... although I'll never forget the customs agent in Havana Cuba that was wearing fishnet stockings ...

On the contrary and especially since 9/11, US customs and border security are usually real a-holes, although not always.  I guess that's the way they are trained now so I don't fault them individually, but it sure makes travelling to the US unpleasant, even for peaceful neighbours like us Canadians.  They do tend to lighten up on me a little when they realize that I'm American (although I travel under my Canadian passport).   

[CalifSur]

I have only been to Barranqilla once. I know Whitey has been there MANY times. So next time I am there I will know to expect more scrutiny.
 
 

[Researcher]

        I always expected alot of luggage checks especially since 9/11. They always seem to take a second look when they see all the Colombian stamps in my passport.


       Researcher

[JaxPaul24]

Whats up fellas? My bad for not getting back to this thread/question earlier and sincere apologies to the brothas that were waiting on my response.

 

I am black myself, a moreno by Latin American standards and I recently went to Colombia. I had plenty of beautiful, quality women interested in me, of all shades and colors and I enjoyed my experience. I am sure many women deselected me because of my skin color, many black women at that. I did not hear much about the race thing because I do not spend much time thinking about it or asking questions about it, it is all a shallow discussion from my point of view, only skin deep. I prefer to talk about the content of a person's character. I am aware from my research that black people have a more difficult time than lighter skin people getting good jobs and advancing economically in Colombia, same as the US I suppose. So I suspect that many women associate being with a black guy as putting herself at an economic disadvantage which puts her at a disadvantage in life. I never paid much mind to it because if a woman is not interested in me because of my skin color, that is fine, whether it be for a personal preference or for a more looking out for her rational self-interest purpose. The woman I marry one day will love my skin color and I hers. I am the type of brother to break stereotypes and change hearts and minds, all the women I dated in Colombia recognized that I am a solid man and a good catch. My character broke through any preconceived notions they had about black men. I imagine Jax heard some typical stuff that is said about Black men in the US, along the same lines.

While I understand what you’re saying Colgando, I wouldn't necessarily call it a shallow discussion. It's quite important to me that a woman is well aware of what my background is, what my culture and ethnicity is. I am proud of my heritage and I am much in touch with both of my ethnicities. I am half Mexican and half Black but I look more Mexican. Most blacks can tell that I'm mixed and that I got some brotha in me but most others can't really tell. As for it only being skin deep, that too I don't really agree with. People nowadays want everyone to be colorblind but that's not how we were made. If the Lord wanted us to all be the same he would made us all the same. We are different and that's what makes the human race so awesome! That's what makes our Country so awesome!!  For someone to look at me colorblind is to not acknowledge who I am and where I came from. So what I believe in and what I teach my kids is to be proud of who they are and where they come from. As for those preconceived perceptions? If they even have any in regards to my skin color or ethnicity then really there is no need to go any further as far as I'm concerned. I'm not interested. My parents, grandparents and great grandparents I'm sure struggled to prove their character/worth all their lives and at this day and age I'm ain't trying to prove to anyone that I'm a solid man and a good catch even though I am a person of color!  So.... just my dos centavos on that bro, I don't mean to come off the wrong way.
 
 
As for my experience in Colombia? My best friend that I keep referring to is black, black as black! I never really noticed any mistreatment or disrespect towards him all those years while I lived in Italy and was always around Colombianos and other Latinos. I had seen plenty from Italians towards people of color but never any from other Colombians. I thought it awesome how they all got along so well regardless of skin color. I was aware from my experience like others have said that social class in Colombia is a bigger issue then the color of one's skin. However, I think that goes hand in hand because most blacks in Colombia are living at the poverty level and make up a big part of that lower economic class.
 
So from the time I started my introductions and first dates I kept getting some comments from the girls that I looked much darker in my photos.  It was strange to me because I'm rather light skin for being Mexican/Black and was even trying to get some damn sun before I left the states but it was snowing!  Anyways, the reactions that I was getting were that these women were glad to see that I was not as dark. When I started my one on one's, 2nd type dates....again some of these women would comment on how much lighter I looked in person and they had a big whole smile on their face when talking about it.  By this time it was piquing my interest so I started going into my background a bit while on my dates. These women had no damn clue what I was talking about....LMAO just thinking back. I would tell them that I was Mexican and African American and they would say things like..."Oh but I thought you were from the USA." OR "But you’re not African, look at your skin" OR "but look at how light you are, you’re not black." So I was patient and figured okay no problem, that's why we are visiting and getting to know one another and I will use the opportunity to better inform them on what I am talking about. I did my best to let them know that it didn't matter what my skin color was, what was important was what my ethnicity was, where my parents came from, where my ancestors came from.  Shoot.....this was to no avail because they just weren't getting it and my impression was that they were just glad that my skin tone wasn't darker. They didn't necessarily want me to be white, just they didn't want me to be black. So okay...whatever.
 
 
Now, one woman I was dating who I refer to as the "Woman" because she was beautiful, elegant and just had it going on in all areas. She could dress, talk, sing, draw I mean this woman was impressive! She made me nervous when I was first around her, the only one that actually fely intimidated by when I first met her. Even G, my translator/buddy during my initial intro with her was blown away! LOL... Anyways, she and I started to get close and I really liked her. I knew she had a nanny who helped her around her house and with her young child. I assumed that it was just a little old lady who lived with her but I when I went over for dinner one night I was introduced to a younger black girl, around 15 years old. The girl was very sweet and I could tell by her look and dress that she appeared to be poor. I was surprised because the "woman" was very well taken care of as was her house. So, we are getting ready for dinner and this black girl was more like this woman's servant. She helped prepare the dinner, set the table, attended to the kiddo and served us our plates. So it was me, the kid and the woman having dinner while the girl ate in the kitchen. I'm just not like that and wasn't really digging the girl waiting on me hand and foot regardless if she was black or not. So the next day I had lunch with the "Woman" at her house and pretty much the same thing, the black girl took care of everything while the "woman" pretty much sat around looking pretty! I just wasn't digging that and I would joke and kid around with this girl to make her feel comfortable and part our gathering. But it was like she was trained and didn't budge from her chores and responsibilities. This "Woman" was also one of the girls that were so adamant about me not technically being black according to her because of my skin color. I mean she was sweet and didn't come off like she was better than others but she was pretty confident that I was not Black!   She was always very grateful to the young girl and spoke highly of her but it just rubbed me the wrong way. I had to make a cut and I pretty stopped seeing her because of her reaction to me being black or should I say the denial and the fact that I wasn't particularly comfortable around her having this young black poor girl working for her.  It came down to her and Feisty, I went with Feisty. 

Onto my Feisty! Well...it was not much different when it came to this same issue/subject.  She too was adamant about me not being black because I didn't look black. I actually kind of argued with her one time and she let me know "okay fine, whatever, I'm just letting you know that I'm not attracted black men but to me you’re not black and I am very attracted to you!"   LOL....yea ok... It was impossible to explain, these chicks just weren't getting it. Now that could actually be a compliment about them but then again maybe it's not, maybe there is an issue as far as race? I didn't know and was trying to get it figured our real quick. I wasn't trying to make it a huge deal, but at the same time it's obvious you are not attracted to black men but yet I'm telling you that I am black myself as you sit on my lap! So with me and Feisty it was just that. She didn't care that my "sangre" had black in it, all she was concerned with was that she was attracted to me and cared for me!  However...I'm not a dumbo and I think it's quite possible that had I had a darker complexion she more than likely would not have been interested in meeting me.
 
 
Feisty also had a 16 year old black girl living with her that served as her nanny/housekeeper, ect. This girl was just like the other and was a University student and when not in school she worked for Feisty. In turn these girls would have a place to live and food to eat while going to the University.  That's cool, I think that's great! It's just the way they were treated when I was around them. This girl too would help clean the house, help with Feisty's son, help cook our meals and then when it was time to eat or watch TV she would be in her room by herself. Feisty would ask me if I wanted something else to eat or drink and if I would say yes and then she would tell Maria (the girl) to please go get it for me. I was like what? Nah woman....you asked me, you go get it! She would just look at me and smile and get off her butte and go get it.  She quickly learned that that was a pet peeve of mine, that I didn't like Maria waiting on us.  By the second day of being there I made sure that Maria sat down and ate with us at the same table. When we grabbed a pizza or a burger, I always made sure Maria got the same as us. I left Maria a really nice HUSKER shirt when I left and Maria just couldn't believe that I would give her something like that. It was no big deal to me, I thought she was a good kid and wished luck on her studies. (BTW....I gave about 8 of those bad boys our while I was there....spreading HUSKER Nation!!!
 
 
Anyways....not sure what to think about all that. Both the "Woman" and Feisty were/are good women. I know both are very busy with work and so I don't have a problem with them having hired help to assist them. I guess I just didn't like the fact they were poor black girls. I made Feisty feel kind of bad when I left because I told her that she needs to make sure that she's treating Maria more like a little sister rather than someone who just works for her.  She was kind of offended by that and swore up and down that she cares deeply for Maria.  So whatever....maybe I was out of line and making this a big deal when it doesn't need to be but I just found it uncomfortable to be around.  In fact it might not have anything to do with the girls being black; maybe I'm just not into the whole servant/nanny/housekeeper thing....
 

But when you throw that in with the fact that many of the girls I met were glad to see that I looked lighter in person, well.....it make me think a little.  As for those girls and my skin tone, well...that's real and no doubt that many of the girls I met were definitely into to me but not necessarily into black men. They definitely look at one's skin color but not necessarily one's ethnicity and unbeknown to most of them.....there is a difference!  Sooooo....that was my black experience or lack thereof.... I just wanted to share a bit with some of the brothas on the forum as well as everyone else.
 

JaxPaul Out...

[JaxPaul24]

MAN!  That was a pain in the a** trying to post, edit....font all out of whack! 
Geez, gave myself a big a** headache!

[AndyLee]

thanks for writing that Jax, it is all very interesting and well written.
I'm white but I have the same reaction to the nanny/servant thing as you do. It just seems wierd, even when the nanny/servant is not black it is still a wierd feeling to be eating lunch or dinner in the living room with a date and her child while the nanny/servant is alone in the kitchen standing up at the counter eating by herself.

[whitey]

I second that ... a very interesting and well written post, JAXPAUL.
 
 I don't have a ton of experience in Colombia yet as far as maids/servants go, but what you describe seems very normal for the culture here ... at least on the coast in Barranquilla.  I think it's more of a class thing than a black-white thing, but I really don't know. 
 
 My wife's family has an older black woman (maybe in her 50's) that comes in to clean and cook once per week.  She hasn't had an easy life, but is always smiling and laughing, and we always share a hug and kiss on the cheek when she arrives for the day.
 
 My mother-in-law has a broken foot and isn't able to get around much, so they are paying this woman to come in to cook, clean, do the laundry, etc. 6 days per week this month.  As you described, she serves the food to the family at the table, then eats on a stool in the kitchen.  My in-laws have no problems barking orders at her to "do this" or "do that", although the daughters (who are all in their 30's) are nicer about it.
 
 You won't hear any pleases or thank yous either - but that seems to be a cultural thing too.  I don't see waiters and waitresses being treated much differently here ... I don't hear many if any pleases and thank yous on the coast.  Quite a contrast to Canada, where we tend to be overly polite about these things.  It just seems to be one of those cultural contrasts here in Colombia ... in many ways people are more gentle and polite and courteous in Colombia ... but on the other hand, you get people in cars and on motos who delight in running down pedestrians ... or people who may kill you for your laptop.
 
 At the same time, however, the maid is not hovering in the wings somewhere, waiting for the bell to ring or the next order like a proper English maid.  She's part of the family life ... it's not unusual for her to spend a good part of the day sitting in the family room with my mother in law, taking about their lives, friends, mundane events of the day, what needs to be bought for lunch, etc. 
 
 I'm not entirely comfortable about how the maids are treated here, but I don't attempt to assert my cultural values as a guest in someone else's home.  I would certainly not insist that the maid sit at the table if that's not done here (for example).  However, in my own home, I would make my own rules. 
 
 It's not my place to judge another culture, and the more I travel, the more I realize that my list of things that are "right or wrong" is very culturaly based.  And so, my list is shorter now, it has been distilled down to what I believe are core, universal "rights and wrongs" like honesty, fidelity, don't steal, don't murder, etc, etc. 
 
 Most of the rest is more grey, culturally and contextually based.  The easiest example is what we in the Western world HAVE DECIDED to consider extremely rude behavior ... political correctness.  Colombians have no problems calling you "negro" or "mono" or "moreno" depending on your skin/hair colour, commenting on whether a woman looks attractive, if you look skinny or fat, whether you are short or tall, whether your face is red today (as mine usually is here from the heat ... hahaha).  My father-in-law is pretty black ... everyone in the neighbourhood, including his wife calls him "El Negro".  None of this is offensive in the culture here, because the intention behind the words is not to be hurtful.
 
 
 

[ignorante]

How are these women going to adjust to life in the U.S., that is, assuming you cannot afford full time maids/servants?

[Jeff S]

Why do you automatically assume it will be a problem?

[ignorante]

Why do you automatically assume it will be a problem?

  I do not have a good explanation for why I make this assumption, but it seems that if somebody has grown accustomed to a full time servant, it is quite a life adjustment to have to do all of that stuff yourself.  I could see where they might think their standard of living is going down.  Does that make sense?

[Jeff S]

The vast majority of Latinas live with their families until they get married. The vast majority of women outside of the US realize that young couples starting out have to struggle at first to make it, and only after a long time, do the trappings of comfort come. Unless these women come from an extremely wealthy home, they've heard how their parents had hard times at first getting themselves on their feet - probably so many times they're sick of hearing the stories.


There's no need only consider only poor women because you're worried they won't love you unless you can hire servants. With a life of poverty comes a whole lot more problems than solutions. Besides, here in the US, having clothes washers and dryers, dish washers, clothes cleaners, and many other labor saving devices, there is not nearly as much time consuming homemaking chores as in other places.  Unlike where she comes from where appliances are expensive and labor is cheap, her the reverse is true. If you've chosen wisely, she'll figure that out too. Give these ladies some credit for knowing how the world works.


From the time I was born until I turned 18, I had someone who cooked all of my meals and washed my clothes - my mother. Then I left home and had to figure out how to do that stuff on my own. For the next 15 years I lived alone, had to dress nice (back then wore a tie every day) and cook for myself when I wasn't traveling. I managed to somehow struggle through it and even turned into a foodie long before it was popular, curing meats, making international cuisine. Now my wife only lets me into the kitchen on special occasions. For someone to qualify as my wife, she needed to be at least as resilient as I was.

[Colgando]

Thanks Jax for sharing. Like you said, skin color and ethnicity are 2 different things. I spent a lot of time explaining my ethnicity to the women, that is deep and meaningful IMO. I do not consider skin tone or complexion that deep or meaningful when you break it down, more along the lines of pigmentation in one's skin, purely genetic, driven by different DNA sequencing. Explaining your African and Mexican heritage is meaningful to me. Even in the US, we say we are black, but I think what is more important and meaningful is the African Heritage. My mother is African, very light skin, when she says she is from Africa, people are like really, is that true, because on TV you mostly see very dark skinned people in Africa. In her case, I think what is most important is her African heritage because along with that comes culture, values, way of life, world view, her home country, her perspective, her language etc. IMO, these meaningful characteristics that make up her person did not come from her skin complexion, they came from her African heritage. That is why I say skin color is only skin deep, and I do not think it contributes as much to the content of a person as does one's heritage. Sure, there is stereotyping and ramifications that come along with evaluating a person based on skin color, but IMO, this type of evaluation of a person is skin deep, shallow and often leads people to the wrong conclusions about a person. IMO, a better, deeper evaluation of a person comes from observations relating to heritage and content of a person's character. I think that once we start drawing hard distinctions based on skin tone, it takes away from the fact that humans are more similar than we are different. I think drawing conclusions and celebrating our differences in ethnicity produces a richness of life that we can all enjoy. I think it suffices to say that white, yellow, brown, black, they are all precious in his sight. Then let's move on to character and ethnicity and the deeper things in life. 


We have the same issue in Africa with house servants and them being treated the way you described. As for us, we treat our house servants as part of the family but we have to be careful to maintain the proper employer/employee relationship because if they get too comfortable be treating as family, it is possible for them to develop bad work habits, insubordination etc, after all, they are earning a paycheck but it does not mean they need to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Then there are family and friends who treat them as you described, it bugs us too when people treat their servants like that.


That is interesting the reaction the women had with you and considered you not being "black". I wonder if it was a personal preference for them or if they just associated being dark skinned with poverty? I can understand why they may have been confused when you explained it to them, it is a bit complicated the way you explained it, IMO. I am a much simpler person when it comes to race and ethnicity.

[CalifSur]

Hey JAXPAUL,
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that is messed up if these gals couldn't embrace your heritage/background.  I think you made the right move in picking Feisty over the "Woman." She seemed more accepting of YOU (even if her attitude wasn't exactly perfect either).
 
On my first date with the gal I connected with she stated to me she "liked my skin tone" because it was not pale white ("leche blanco" is how she put it).  In other words, she was turned off by pasty white guys. She is a paisa girl with native and european roots.