What comes next?

[Veracity]

Guys,

I have a question....I guess. It's not really a question....I just want to share with you what's  been happening and then tell you how I feel about it.

I got a lot of replies on Filipinaheart, Thailovelinks, chinesselovelinks, and chinalovematch ....IN THAT ORDER. As you can all guess, they run heavy on filipinaheart and then trickle off as I get to the end of that list. (Which is a shame 'cause I wish it was the other way around.)

Anyway, regardless, my situation is the same:

Some amazing women show some interest--either on their own or after I show an interest in them--and then there will be an email exchange. It starts off very well, but then I lose a large percentage of them.

The thing is, in addition to my regular job, I am an author. I know how to write....what I do not know how to do is play the game. My guess is that most of the men with whom these women correspond start promising these women the world....and I look like a stiff in comparison.

I do not yet have Skype, YM, MSN....so admittedly, I am at a disadvantage...but it's only been about five days. These women drop off sooner than that.

I am willing to learn whatever it is that I need to learn.

Also...the "scammers" that I do spot are fairly easy to spot...but other than that, I do not know how to gauge the seriousness of these women. How hard does this one or that one want to be pursued?

There it is. That's my story. Do with it what you will!

[Ray]

I wouldn't worry about playing any games.

Just be yourself, be sincere, and let the unimpressed ladies fall by the wayside.

If they are dumping you because you aren't into the chat software, then so what? Do you want a lady who will take the time to write a nice e-mail or letter, or some bozo who spends half her life chatting up dozens of guys all day long?

Ray

[thekfc]

The thing is, in addition to my regular job, I am an author. I know how to write....what I do not know how to do is play the game.

There is no game to play, be who you are.

My guess is that most of the men with whom these women correspond start promising these women the world....and I look like a stiff in comparison.

You couldn't be so wrong from the truth. I do not think that any of us here on the Asian side did.
You do not want to promise any of these ladies something that you cannot deliver - that will only lead to disaster.
For the guys who do & cannot deliver - epic fail.

Also...the "scammers" that I do spot are fairly easy to spot...but other than that, I do not know how to gauge the seriousness of these women.

You will be able to tell with time.

I do not yet have Skype, YM, MSN....so admittedly, I am at a disadvantage...but it's only been about five days. These women drop off sooner than that.

Skype, YM & MSN are all free.  Most (not all) of the ladies prefer to communicate that way, it doesn't take but a minute to download & set-up. If you already have a Yahoo or MSN email account you are already 50% done. If you are not comfortable using chat - let the ladies know.

Later down the road, invest in a cam - both of you want to put a "real" face to the person you are corresponding with. Both of you would want to make sure that they are not chatting with someone with a 15/20 year old picture posted.
You also want to make sure that the person you are chatting with is actually that person & not someone (her man?) who are trying to set you up for a scam later down the road.
Also put your feet in their shoes, women get scammed/played too. People forget that men are not the only ones who get scammed/played, these women have the same thoughts as you - they are also cautious.
Be upfront with them, be yourself, do not promise anything you cannot deliver & tell them the truth. Also look for the "warning" signs & when you encounter a scammer - delete them.

[Veracity]

Also put your feet in their shoes, women get scammed/played too. People forget that men are not the only ones who get scammed/played, these women have the same thoughts as you - they are also cautious.

Please elaborate.

Deceived? Yes, that I can believe.....but do they/can they really get scammed?

Just curious.

I'm like a sponge...ready to soak up all that you guys share with me. Knowledge is power!

V

[Jeff S]

I agree with both Ray and kfc. Most of us here played no games whatsoever. You will go through quite a few and that's a good thing. You're (or should be) looking for only one.

Plenty of men married to American she-devils sucking their life energy out of them, or just plain old  perverts sitting in their mother's basements, try to chat these women up for some fantasy reasons. They have no intention of ever getting on a plane, or if they dream of it someday, they have neither the means nor the guts to hop on a plane and see anything for themselves. Maybe one in ten men actually travel and meet someone. Lots of these women know it too - a few that posted here complained of being led-on by what turned out to be jerks just game playing.

Keep at it, and you'll connect with someone. As Bear used to say - you're the catch so if you're sincere and they dump you and move on - their loss and there are plenty more waiting in-line for a chance for you right behind them.

- Jeff

BTW. I'm a writer too. PM me if you'd like to swap some ideas.

[robert angel]

Veracity,

Regarding:

>>I do not yet have Skype, YM, MSN....so admittedly, I am at a disadvantage...but it's only been about five days. These women drop off sooner than that.

I am willing to learn whatever it is that I need to learn.

Also...the "scammers" that I do spot are fairly easy to spot...but other than that, I do not know how to gauge the seriousness of these women. How hard does this one or that one want to be pursued?<<

Having Yahoo, MSN, a webcam and perhaps Skype are pretty much necessary tools. When I was 'looking' I sometimes chatted an occasional woman who had no profile picture, because she had an exceptionally well written profile and it was nice to chat with her without being biased by a picture.

That said, most women will not want to chat someone they cannot see on cam and eventually hear the voice of for too long. There's just too much deception on both sides and they will blow you off as probably not being serious.

Like you, when I started off, I was fascinated by the oh so pretty Chinese, Thai and former USSR nation's and Eastern European women. I soon found that most of them would run hot and cold. Some would write me, some I would write to and they would make me feel like I was the ONLY guy for them and the greatest guy they'd ever 'met'. Some paid to have their letters sent to me translated into English and they did not tell me that nor that in real life that they could not write nor speak comprehensible English. These were ladies in areas that at that time, webcams were rare and phone connectivity spotty at best. Then a day would come when all communication suddenly stopped--nada--they, in their 'fishing' had found a better 'fish' and I was no longer wanted. At least some Filipinas would tell me they were 'moving on'.

Hey now, at that point--we're all 'fishing'--but are we going to be nice and humane 'catch and release' fisherman and if we're not truly interested in that 'catch', or if we are just going for the best fish and tossing away the the ones that we don't deem the best of the best, are we going to do so without any considerations for the other person?

Maybe I'm absurd in expecting humanity and manners on the internet--which is a place where I have likened people as being treated like 'cyber potato chips'--you eat a few, throw away the bag and get another newer bag, but I still feel that you can make long term, meaningful friends here, and that even extends to people with whom 'romance' never materializes. You CAN be a nice person on line, even if a lot of people are not. And you can show them that not all people from your country are [snip]s and not all men are bastards.


I am not saying you can't meet a great woman from these countries, I am just saying that I think you'll have a much harder time finding a really good one. Plus, for me, the language--meaning ability to speak English, made the Philippines much more ideal for me.


 You may be able to see the fairly obvious scammers, but believe me, there are plenty out there who are harder to spot. It takes a long time to decide if someone's really worth pursuing. They need to be consistent in their talk, consistently there when they say they're going to be and if they have excuses, they should be few and very plausible.

 I knew my wife for almost four years before we actually met in person. We were seeing other people, although neither of us was in a deeply 'involved' relationship and a mutual friend in the USA introduced us on line. I even visited the Philippines and did not VISTA her, because my focus each trip was to see one woman per visit and not screw that up. Later on, we each found ourselves totally single and we thought 'why not US?'. Some dramatic events set that into motion, but believe it or not, I'm not going to write a novel about that here.

But what really, really sold me on my now wife was that although I knew she faced great adversities back home and after graduating, worked 6 days a week, 12 hours a day and sending most of her meager earnings back home, she always found time to chat me and she never asked me for a single peso. She was always there when she said she was going to be and she never made excuses that didn't add up. Her word was golden. I later found out things like how she never mentioned how she would have loved to have me sponsor her and pay for a quarter page tribute in her university year book, but she was too proud to ask. When I found out years later, I felt awful. There were times when she didn't have enough nutritious food to eat because she was saving to send her sibling's tuition money and to chat me. I had no idea until later, although we discussed everything imaginable. She just didn't feel it was 'proper' for her to discuss her desperate finances.

Over all the time we chatted, she must have seen me cooking breakfast for my sons and doing loads of laundry 100's of times. I learned all about her family and friends and meeting them on line gave me a good idea about where she had come from and what sort of people she chose to have around her. In a word, she was steady.


After literally years of chatting and me telling myself "She's too young, she's too pretty, Rob" she finally won me over. I realized that her family had no problem with us and neither did my family. I was the one who had created a 'problem'.

Sometimes the right one is right in front of us and we don't even know it. Sometimes the 'right one' doesn't fit the description of the 'right one' that we had previously told ourselves we were going to stick to. Yes, we need to have some sort of a plan, goals and to be able to put the plans into motion to make things happen, but we need to, while using our brains, keep an open heart and mind to what possibilities are out there.

Be very careful, looking out for bad signs, not letting a woman's physical beauty make you not see the bad signs objectively, but don't ignore good signs either.


Veracity, sounds like you're new to this and with time, you'll learn a lot. Don't rush it, but when you do find a girl who passes all the tests, don't drag your feet for too long like I did, as after four years, she was about ready to stop considering me romantically, putting me back into the 'friends' category instead. Few women will wait even a year before you make your sincere intentions quite clear.

[Edited to get rid of excess 'whitespace' only]

[evoltnvii]

Im all for honesty if they dont dig who you honestly are then how is a long term relationship going to work. Just take your time its worth your effort.

[Bob_S]

The thing is, in addition to my regular job, I am an author. I know how to write....what I do not know how to do is play the game. My guess is that most of the men with whom these women correspond start promising these women the world....and I look like a stiff in comparison.

I'm going to join the chorus (Ray, kfc, Jeff, et al) in saying, be yourself.  Don't worry about playing a "game".  Being literate and a skilled writer can actually work against you in the "chat" game.  You're probably trying to initiate some serious thoughtful deep conversations, so naturally you won't match well anyway with some young girls whose form of discussion goes "How r u? *smile* u'r so cute. Where u from? oooo, sounds nice. *smile*..."  Some 20-something cutie doing this may be an ego boost for a while, but in the long run, could you really see yourself married to that day in and out?

Additionally, being too literate can be overwhelming to even a thoughtful intelligent educated foreign lady if you typically use too much pera pera high level English.  Even a woman who studies English for years may be bamboozled by your use of present perfect conditional (if I had been..., I would have...).  I'm not saying you have to dumb it down, but you may need to down-shift the grammar level, depending on the woman's English skill.

[]
Forget about finding a mate just yet.  See if you can find some penpals you can converse with.  My wife and I started as just that, e-mail pen friends trading long pages-long e-mails once or twice a week (before the day of IMing and video chatting).  She actually appreciated thoughtful replies to serious subjects (btw, 9-11 happened about 5 months into our correspondence, so those were interesting conversations).  And JM's current #1 also started as a non-romantic penpal.  Now, if you're horny, this may not work for you.  The feelings take a long time to develop.  The first time you meet, you may still be thinking "friend" mode, and not see the man-woman potential.  But that's okay.  In Asian culture, unlike American culture, being in the "friend" zone does not mean you are forever stuck in the "friend" zone.  It's understood as a temporary location with growth potential.
[/]

[Dave H]

I agree with both Ray and kfc. Most of us here played no games whatsoever.
- Jeff

Same here! I didn't play any games with my Filipina wife. I always seemed to be playing games with Latinas...usually having to be a "macho, bad boy"...trying hard not to be "too nice" which would be considered a sign of weakness, causing a loss of respect by many ladies.

Dave

[jm21-2]

I wouldn't worry about playing games. I don't think it would be a bad idea to have some peer review of your profile though. No matter how good a writer you are it's especially good to hear from a couple women. Plentyoffish.com has a forum where you can have your profile reviewed and I thought it was very helpful.

You also might consider that some of these girls may not have regular access to the internet and it can take them a couple days to respond. Or they only have access at work and can only respond to mail when the boss is out.

If a woman is serious after a couple messages I'd think about running. Especially a Chinese girl. There was literally no romantic/lovey-dovey talk with either of my girlfriends until a few days after I met them in person. Most Chinese girls want to start out as friends and then work up to romance.

[Osa]

I'm gonna go against the grain and say that it is advantageous to have *some* game.

- A little bit of misdirection to keep her wondering "is he thinking about me"

- A little bit of "do you think I'm pretty", "no I think you're horrendous.  I'm dating you out of charity."

- A little bit of "Meh.  I'm called her 4 days straight.  Let me let it rest a bit so she doesn't get bored of me."

All these things go a long way in creating a sense of mystique.  Remember, in courtship, if she doesn't do some of the chasing, that means you are doing all of it, which makes you a needy loser.

[robert angel]

I think we kind of jumped at the wording 'play the game' and sort of took it literally. I don't think Veracity intended to trivialize it to a childish game level and all the same, I think love, courting--'relationships' in general, are flexible, sometimes mysterious things involving opposites and that yes, for lack of better terminology, you have to learn how to handle or 'play' the situation or if you will, 'game'. Mars and Venus comparisons, among others bear this out. I have commented that I don't know nearly as much about Filipinas and their culture as I thought and that comment extends to women as well.

So, yes, there's a 'game' to play in that we have to make moves and demonstrate actions on a sometimes nebulous playing field, trying to decide what actions, moves, responses and mannerisms are going to work. It's a complex, mysterious 'game'. That said, I think for the best results, minimize posturing and  justbeing yourself gives you the best chance at  long term success.

I really have a problem with taking things literally. The other day, a friend asked me "How you feeling these days?" I replied: "With my hands"

[Dave H]

I'm gonna go against the grain and say that it is advantageous to have *some* game.

- A little bit of misdirection to keep her wondering "is he thinking about me"

- A little bit of "do you think I'm pretty", "no I think you're horrendous.  I'm dating you out of charity."

- A little bit of "Meh.  I'm called her 4 days straight.  Let me let it rest a bit so she doesn't get bored of me."

All these things go a long way in creating a sense of mystique.  Remember, in courtship, if she doesn't do some of the chasing, that means you are doing all of it, which makes you a needy loser.

Hey Osa,


That was pretty much my technique with Latinas. But, it probably wouldn't go over very well with most Asians...unless they were desperate!

Dave

[Jeff S]

Yes - teasing works great with AW and Latinas, but Asian women often don't get it, at least not until you get to know each other for quite some time. You need to make them laugh in other ways.

[jm21-2]

Teasing is one thing, but playing 'hard to get' doesn't seem to work well with Chiense girls at least. They may take it that you weren't interested and at least from my experience they want every assurance possible that you're serious about the relationship. When I was in Thailand and we saw some old white guy with a barely dressed teenage Thai girl I'd crack a joke about how I should be doing that and it did not go over very well. I didn't realize she was getting peeved for a bit but now I know. Similarly, if she was waiting for me to come online or call her at a time I normally do and I didn't she would be really disappointed.

I think compared to AW 'security' is much more important in Asia (financial, emotional, matrimonial, etc.) and playing hard to get goes against that.

[whitey]

I'm gonna go against the grain and say that it is advantageous to have *some* game.

- A little bit of misdirection to keep her wondering "is he thinking about me"

- A little bit of "do you think I'm pretty", "no I think you're horrendous.  I'm dating you out of charity."

- A little bit of "Meh.  I'm called her 4 days straight.  Let me let it rest a bit so she doesn't get bored of me."

All these things go a long way in creating a sense of mystique.  Remember, in courtship, if she doesn't do some of the chasing, that means you are doing all of it, which makes you a needy loser.

I have no doubt this is true for many women in Colombia, but I'm really glad I don't have to do this stuff with my novia from Barranquilla.  It's just not me.

I have to admit I struggled at first with the whole play the macho, run-hot-and-cold to increase the mystique thing, and ultimately realized after a few months that it just wasn't necessary with her.  She's in her early 30's, doesn't like to party, isn't jealous (ok, only a little), punctual, etc.  In other words ... not your typical barranquillera.

I think she's on edge enough wondering if or when she'll ever see me again.  Not through any fault of my own ... I've been to see her several times in the last year.  But there's no shortage of people who love to make comments and tell stories about the gringos that just come to play and have another girlfriend or even wife on the side.

The ironic thing is that probably 9 out of 10 colombianos are worse than gringos in that respect!

[robert angel]

My experience with Asian women is that teasing them makes them mad in a real hurry. They don't care for patronizing or condescending behavior either. My wife is far, far from boastful, but she has a very strong, yet quiet sense of pride that I think is typical of a lot of better Filipinas.

Her village is a few hours from a major city and they may have cobra snakes around and require a machete to get through if you stray from the dirt roads or foot beaten paths, but she does NOT like me to say her village is in the jungle--that's where Tarzan and Jane come from, not civilized and educated Filipinos.

She does love humor and sometimes wants me to be funnier (humbug!) and for me to make light of situations--not to be too serious. I think Filipinos can find humor in all but the darkest of circumstances. Whenever she's around other Filipinos or talking to family, she becomes much more animated and laughs like crazy, whereas our daily life here in the U.S. of A is a bit more subdued....

[Osa]

Then I'll stick to my latin women   I like teasing and stuff

[robert angel]

Osa,

Sounds like you have a pretty good one down there, Don't psyche your self out if it's a real good thing there. Nice that you had some 'give and take' down there--her getting sort of itchy bitchy the night before you left was interesting. It's best to see each other at our best and worse, I think. All too often, the honeymoon is before the marriage and afterwards is anticlimatic, in some ways.

Anyways--thanks for sharing your honest appraisal of the trip--it was (is) a good read. 

[Bob_S]

My experience with Asian women is that teasing them makes them mad in a real hurry. They don't care for patronizing or condescending behavior either.

My experience, too.  You know how Brits say Americans don't get "irony"?  It's much worse in Japan.  From my experience, they don't get satire, irony, and definitely don't get sarcasm.  If you say to a J-girl "I'm dating you out of charity," you won't get a wry smile, you'll make her cry.

[Osa]

Fair enough..

Well, whatever passes as "game" in a particular culture, you should probably have a little.

@robert:  thanks!

[Ray]

I'm gonna go against the grain and say that it is advantageous to have *some* game.

- A little bit of misdirection to keep her wondering "is he thinking about me"

- A little bit of "do you think I'm pretty", "no I think you're horrendous.  I'm dating you out of charity."

- A little bit of "Meh.  I'm called her 4 days straight.  Let me let it rest a bit so she doesn't get bored of me."

All these things go a long way in creating a sense of mystique.  Remember, in courtship, if she doesn't do some of the chasing, that means you are doing all of it, which makes you a needy loser.

Mystique??

Oh man, how can you actually enjoy playing all these silly games?

How old is the lady you are chasing anyway? This sounds like the juvenile kind of stuff we did in junior high.  

If this is typical behavior necessary for courting Latina drama queens, then thank God I went Asian!

Personally, I appreciate adult, mature women who can enjoy being courted without all the silly drama. And I strongly disagree with your conclusion that men doing most or all of the active pursuing are “needy losers”. I guess we must come from entirely different cultures or something.

Anyway, good luck with your courtship rituals down south…

Ray

[jm21-2]

My girlfriend and I poke fun at each other a lot and tease in that way, but when it comes to our relationship teasing seems like a bad idea.

[thekfc]

Both me & my girl do have a good sense of humor.
She sometimes jokingly tells me "you loko-loko me".

[robert angel]

My wife definitely doesn't like being teased, but she has a real cornball sense of humor--making hilarious faces and such. She really is sensitive for not just herself, but for almost anyone unfortunate in life. No wonder she loves old 'I love Lucy' episodes, but not 'The Three Stooges'.

She has troubles with certain English language sounds, and we know a Thai lady who has the same, but really different kind of pronunciation issues--'Nook' has trouble with the "R" sound and once when mad at a good American buddy of mine who she felt was taking her for granted-- treating her like she had no brain, she said "You think I'm a LOBOT??"

So when ever one of us feels the other is treating us like a dumb robot--we say "You think I'm a LOBOT?--always defuses tension.

'Game' is such a nebulous term. My wife is a mushy, sentimental romantic and she wants hugs, holding hands, cuddling, and sweet unexpected surprises and Porsches (No--thank God she's not into expensive cars--yet) anyways--that's our 'game' acting like we're much younger--like teenage lovers and things are a mystery all over again, going out on 'dates' and such. She never really had a serious boyfriend before me, with school, family responsibilities and her, ever since she was age 12, wanting an American guy to settle down with some day. It's important for me to remember that she should still have that kind of fun that she missed out on back home.

As a husband, I have to remember not to take her for granted, which is all too easy for me to do, becuase with the exception of those few days a month we're all too familiar with, she's usually very steady and consistent.