Obams's Health Care Reform Bill

[michaelb]

Telling a health insurance company they can't discriminate based on pre-existing conditions and have to provide a certain level of coverage is really no different from telling a paper mill they can't dump chemicals in the nearby river

Actually, it's more like telling a property insurance company that they have to write policies covering buildings that are already on fire.

[piglett]

What you fail to understand is that what Obama, Reid, Palosi, and all the rest of the far-left whackoes really want in the end, is a single-payer health care system. They now know that this socialist BS won’t fly, so they will take what they can get now and once the federal govt gets control of the system, they can phase in the single-payer system later.
The current plans in congress will put the government in charge of determining what coverage the insurance companies must provide to whom, and essentially decide what care you can and can not get.
Don’t believe a word the Democrats are telling you because it’s all a big lie!
Ray

Ray why exactly does the GOP impress you sooooo much ?
they had control of the whitehouse for 8 years & for 6 of those years they controlled both houses too if i recall.
Gw. spent money like a drunken sailor & ran up a 1 trillion dollar debt.
Jm's pal obama convinced enough American that he could do better.
Well if you call running up a 3 trillion dollar debt in just the 1st year better than U need to see a doctor quick.

Comparing the current leadership in Washington to 2 filthy rotten diseased rats would go something like this.
You put both rats in a grain sack , you shake them up really good & when you reach your hand in to pull either of them out your almost be guaranteed to get bit & the bite will probably get infected.


piglett

[piglett]

Well a public health care system like that was never in any of the bills that got more than a second glance. We do need to ration medicare/medicaid better but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax and one we'll have to deal with in any sort of healthcare reform. A voluntary public option would not cause those sorts of problems. The target you mention simply did not exist in the debate. I agree that there are many problems with a single payer public healthcare system, but it was just not on the table.

What you don't understand Jm is this current plan is just a "starter home" for them
Hell they have even used that exact term.
Once they get it they will add to it as they see fit.


piglett

[piglett]

The government regulates all sorts of corporations. How is regulating health insurance companies any different? Telling a health insurance company they can't discriminate based on pre-existing conditions and have to provide a certain level of coverage is really no different from telling a paper mill they can't dump chemicals in the nearby river or that restaurants have to maintain a certain level of cleanliness. We've been regulating businesses for a long, long time now...nothing really new there.

Well if you think the government is so good & efficient at doing things then i would suggest you ask them to come & run your business for you. After all they run everything else they get their hands on sooooo well, rite ?
Please name 1 thing they do well. Except for steel every dollar they can get their hands on.

Don't think so what about the SSI trustfund. Both parties have been helping themselves to that baby for years.
If they hadn't been all the trillions of dollars that the babyboomers have paid in over the last 40 years would have sustained it with interest for hundreds of years, but instead it is quickly going broke.


piglett


Ok boys & girls time to climb down off my soap box, my legs are starting to get tired way up here LOL

[jm21-2]

Generally people get more protection under the law than inanimate objects. That's a common trend in every legal system I've ever heard of.

Besides, a lot of pre-existing are either very common, genetic, not a big deal, or not related to the coverage sought.

The slippery slope argument is used in basically every debate so I don't give it much weight.

Where did I say the government was efficient (I said some of the measures proposed will probably do nothing but waste money due to government inefficiency)? Where did I say I like Obama (I specifically said I didn't like him)?

What I said was that the bill does jack and [snip] and the republicans raving over it just makes them look like hyperbolic half-crazed imbeciles. The same thing happens on every issue...people get wrapped up in this big debate over something meaningless while the politicians have a good laugh at us and take our money. It's the history of American politics. The voters get riled up over some tenuously "moral" issue and completely ignore everything else.

[Bob_S]

Well a public health care system like that was never in any of the bills that got more than a second glance. ...The target you mention simply did not exist in the debate.

Not upfront, but the idea was lurking inn the background.  The proponents of the public option have been on record as praising a single-payer Canadian-style system, and preferring that to the compromise they finally put forward.  So it's a question of trust in their motives and the direction they ultimately want to go.  Trusting this lot to reform the medical system would be like trusting David Duke to write civil rights legislation (maybe you're too young to remember him).

Actually, it's more like telling a property insurance company that they have to write policies covering buildings that are already on fire.

It's hard to be sympathetic to the insurance companies.  They've really screwed themselves with too many anecdotal cases of them metaphorically canceling the policies while your house was in the process of burning down, accusing you of being deceitful for not warning them that it had faulty wiring.

[Ray]

Ray why exactly does the GOP impress you sooooo much ?

Where did I ever say that?

What have you been smoking, anyway? 

[Ray]

...and the republicans raving over it just makes them look like hyperbolic half-crazed imbeciles.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. From the commie left, I imagine that everything the Republicans stand for looks half-crazed and imbecilic. 

I can tell that you really wish the opposition to this socialist health-care takeover would just shut up so the Democrats can do whatever they wish and without any opposing voice. Sorry, but that ain’t going to fly and already the majority of Americans are against it. But the Dems will ram it down our throats regardless, so you can relax now.

Ray

[jm21-2]

Bob S,

I agree the idea was lurking in the background, but it was so far in the background I don't see it being important. That is the far left who don't have much say, especially not now that the vast majority of moderates have joined the democrats. Most politicians are bought out by the insurance companies anyways and no matter what they say they know who funds their campaigns. I don't believe for a second that the typical dem thought there was a chance in hell of a single payer system. In fact, I'd place a bet that the typical dem opposes it.

Ray,

I don't really care what the republicans say they stand for. Nor do I care what the dems say they stand for. I judge by actions and they both look awfully similar to me. But the public raving of republicans just plain makes them look stupid. Just like how Obama making a bunch of promises he had no intention of keeping makes him look like a total jackass. You know, there are actually independents, and most of them are pretty disgusted with both parties. Rather than getting wrapped up in this verbal competition between the parties why not take a moment to step back and really think about the situation. The chances of a single payer system happening currently is just about nil. There is very little public support and politicians on both sides have huge incentives to stop it.

[michaelb]

It's hard to be sympathetic to the insurance companies. 

Oh, I'm not sympathetic to them at all, in fact I believe that almost every insurance executive has either a legislator or an insurance commissioner (usually both) in his vest pocket, much to the detriment of the general public. I was just offering a more accurate example. JM said 'requiring this is no different than forbidding that' when in fact requiring and forbidding are opposites. But he's dead on right in his last post when he said: Most politicians are bought out by the insurance companies anyways and no matter what they say they know who funds their campaigns.

[Ray]

That is the far left who don't have much say, especially not now that the vast majority of moderates have joined the democrats.

HUH? They don’t have much say?? Where have you been?

The far left is running the show. Pelosi & Reid are in charge and they are writing this piece of crap legislation. You don’t get much farther left than those two! And Obama, rated as the most liberal of all senators, will surely sign ANY piece of garbage they send up to him. You don’t believe that?

But the public raving of republicans just plain makes them look stupid.

Again, like I said, it’s a matter of perspective. Actually, it’s YOU who looks stupid when you rant against Republicans and anyone else opposing this garbage by using stupid labels like “retarded”, “half-crazed”, “imbeciles”, etc., etc… That’s a typical far-left tactic to attempt to muzzle the opposition, like the White House proclaiming that Fox News is not a news organization… ROFL!

The chances of a single payer system happening currently is just about nil.

Perhaps, but the key word there is CURRENTLY. I guess it’s OK then with you if we have a socialist single-payer health system a few years down the road? Give the leftists in charge a chance and that’s exactly what they will give us!

This whole health-care fiasco the Democrats is ramming down our throats just stinks from top to bottom!

Ray

[fathertime]

I want to hear responses to this question.

How do people with preexisting conditions get somewhat affordable health insurance currently??

I know working people (no company plan) that are unable to afford insurance ($900 a month) due to preexisting conditions. 

How can these people get covered and insurance companies know they are going to lose their asses.  Insurance companies are built first to make a profit.  So how does a real problem like this get solved.  I want to hear solutions that make sense.  I think a govt. plan would solve that problem on all the healthy peoples backs, but I would MUCH rather have the private sector solve the specific problem I brought up.  For the moment I do not support the govt that Pelosi is trying to ram down our throats, but I need to see something change.

Thanks,
Fathertime!

[Shadow_mas]

FT, some people do not care how others get coverage, as long as they stay out of their pockets. 
Living in countries where such plans are implemented a very long time ago, I can only say they work, as long as there is enough control on the medical profession (and some patients) trying to gain money by cheating.

[jm21-2]

HUH? They don’t have much say?? Where have you been?

The far left is running the show. Pelosi & Reid are in charge and they are writing this piece of crap legislation. You don’t get much farther left than those two! And Obama, rated as the most liberal of all senators, will surely sign ANY piece of garbage they send up to him. You don’t believe that?

Again, like I said, it’s a matter of perspective. Actually, it’s YOU who looks stupid when you rant against Republicans and anyone else opposing this garbage by using stupid labels like “retarded”, “half-crazed”, “imbeciles”, etc., etc… That’s a typical far-left tactic to attempt to muzzle the opposition, like the White House proclaiming that Fox News is not a news organization… ROFL!

Perhaps, but the key word there is CURRENTLY. I guess it’s OK then with you if we have a socialist single-payer health system a few years down the road? Give the leftists in charge a chance and that’s exactly what they will give us!

This whole health-care fiasco the Democrats is ramming down our throats just stinks from top to bottom!

Ray

Are you serious? Do you have any idea what the far left desires? Trust me on this one, the far left is just as, if not more than, pissed off than the far right at the current situation. All the people you have mentioned, by their actions (not their words) are moderates or moderate-conservatives.

I come from a family of liberals and radicals. I have consistently told them that Obama was a moderate-conservative but they wouldn't believe me. It was nice this holiday season because they finally agreed that Obama upheld none of their ideas or ideals. He is just a bought out moderate-conservative president like all the rest of the presidents we've had in the last 70 years or so.

[Ray]

All the people you have mentioned, by their actions (not their words) are moderates or moderate-conservatives.

WTF?

Pelosi, Reid, & Obama moderate conservatives?? You’re freaking joking, right?

That is absolutely, without a doubt, the funniest thing I’ve heard in many years. Thanks for the laugh jm…!

[piglett]

WTF?

Pelosi, Reid, & Obama moderate conservatives?? You’re freaking joking, right?

That is absolutely, without a doubt, the funniest thing I’ve heard in many years. Thanks for the laugh jm…!

I'll have 2 back you up on that one Ray. 

[jm21-2]

Ray,

Are you so out of touch and unknowledgeable about liberals that you would think Obama is in any way liberal by his actions as president? He hasn't even gotten rid of "don't ask, don't tell," which he promised to do, much less push for gay marriage rights. He put more troops into Afghanistan instead of immediately pulling out all troops from both Iraq and Afghanistan. He left the health care issues to congress. I mean, how could anyone seriously think of him as a liberal? It's absolutely ridiculous. His policies are probably most similar to George Bush Sr.

Anyways, this is obviously talking to a brick wall, so done with this thread.

[Dave H]

That was some very funny stuff...Obama a "moderate-conservative!" It is hard to imagine anyone could be further left than Obama...well maybe the diaper clad bunny boy!

How about some liberal jokes:

Question: Why can’t liberals find facts?
Answer: They aren’t looking for any.

Question: Why do Liberals lie?
Answer: It comes natural.

Q: How do you confuse a Liberal?
A: You don't. They're born that way.

Q: What do you call a basement full of Liberals?
A: A whine cellar.

Question: What’s the definition of a liberal genius?
Answer: A liberal who can count all 50 states.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

[Dave H]

The Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) are my kind of "liberal Democrats!"  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan)

[thekfc]

This week "The Village Voice"  Newspaper here in NYC just did a "piece" on Obama first year.

It is entitled George W. Obama

Here is the link to it:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-01-12/columns/george-w-obama/

On the front cover of the Newspaper - Obama face (skin) is peeling to reveal Bush underneath.

[Shadow_mas]

A very long time ago I read that the most 'left' politician in the USA would be called 'conservative' in my country.
The more I learn, the more I see that as fact. 

[Ray]

Well, I guess the people have spoken again on Obama’s stupid socialist health-care takeover.

If the most liberal state, Massachusetts, can tell Obama to go shove it, just wait until November.

I really got a kick out of tuning in to MSNBC during the election coverage and watching all the left-wing whakoes self-destruct on the air. LOL!

Does this mean the end for the phony health-care reform? My prediction is that the Three Stooges (Obama, Pelosi, & Reid) will now go all out with any trick they can pull out of their arses to ram this crap down our throats despite what the “ignorant” public wants. I think they are just too arrogant to see the writing on the wall… 

[fathertime]

 

Well, I guess the people have spoken again on Obama’s stupid socialist health-care takeover.

If the most liberal state, Massachusetts, can tell Obama to go shove it, just wait until November.

I really got a kick out of tuning in to MSNBC during the election coverage and watching all the left-wing whakoes self-destruct on the air. LOL!

Does this mean the end for the phony health-care reform? My prediction is that the Three Stooges (Obama, Pelosi, & Reid) will now go all out with any trick they can pull out of their arses to ram this crap down our throats despite what the “ignorant” public wants. I think they are just too arrogant to see the writing on the wall… 

[

     I also had to take a look at MSNBC and all their long faces over there after the election. What a stupid looking blazer Maddow was wearing this evening with that little boy haircut of hers!  I don't think it was a coincidence she was wearing black!

  Thank goodness Foxnews is out there to counter all this unchecked liberalism that the 'major' news channels continue to report.  I am convinced if it weren't for Fox and Talk Radio, the people in power would have no check whatsoever, that goes for when Bush was in power as well.  These outlets enable another outlet for the citizens to be organized and heard! 

Fathertime!

[Ray]

Don't be so sure about that.

The Democrats' "health care" bill is nothing but a piece of crap and it should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs.

[fathertime]

Don't be so sure about that.

The Democrats' "health care" bill is nothing but a piece of crap and it should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs.

Hey Ray,
Was there a comment you were responding to, in between yours and mine. 

Fathertime!