Trip to Bogota

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Hi Ken,

I went through the same experience with a girl I met back in 1998. She was from Cartagena. She and I were writing each other consistently for about 3 to 5 months prior my visit. From the letters and calls, she was really into me, and she seemed nice. From her photos, she was pretty. She also claimed to be very religious.  

She asked me to visit. Since I was just staring out, I didn't expect the invitation that soon. She suggested for me to stay in a hotel, but spend time with her and her family during the whole visit. I agreed.

When I got there, she was fine and all, but then I noticed red flags that would appear over the few days. Actually, looking back I should have realized that this girl was too eager to get married from the beginning before I had even arrived in Cartagena to visit her. She expected for me to propose to her during the first visit, and she wanted to get married not long after that. I told her I couldn't make such a serious decision in a short period of time. I told her that 1 to 2 years would be a reasonable time for getting married.

I stayed with her and her family for 16 days, after the 12th day she started to act different. She was a little cold and distant, but she and I still tried to have fun doing things in Cartagena. Also, there were some things that I noticed about her family that I didn't like. I won't go into the details. Ultimately, we weren't compatible.

Despite the differences, I felt obligated to spend my time with her because she invited me down. Plus, I didn't know much Spanish then, and I had became dependent on her for helping me around. Another thing, and this was a big mistake I had made. Sense the dollar is strong in Colombia, I wanted to go shopping for myself in some of the clothing stores. Sense the girl was with me most of the time, she came with me, and she help me go to the different shops. I spent about $300.00 between the both of us buying clothes, shoes, and dinner. Actually, during the whole trip, when she and I went out, I paid (as to be expected). We went to some nice places.

I don't feel like I was manipulated to spend so much money treating her because I'm an adult, and I have to take the responsibility for my decisions (good ones or bad ones). Plus, I did rely on her and her family allot during my stay.      

Also, looking back and considering how things didn't work with her, I can remember that there were plenty of beautiful single girls walking around the city that I could have met if I had not made the premature decision of spending all of my time with the first girl.

Another thing happened, too. The girl that I visited had a girl friend who was writing a guy from Europe for about 5 months prior to visiting. I went with the girl I knew to the airport to meet her girl friend, she was waiting for the guy that she was writing to. This was his first visit to meet her, but not his first time to Cartagena, and she insisted on him staying with her and her family. This guy was a creep. It was clear that all he wanted was to get that girl into bed as soon as he could. After a couple of days, the girl broke away from the guy, and it turned out that the guy had many other girlfriends in Cartagena, and frequently travelled there.

So, I offer you the following advice, take it or leave it.

1.) Don't make any commitments that will place significant demands on your time and/or money prior to meeting the girl first. Calling and writing before visiting is ok, but I don't do much of that anymore either. These girls have been in contact with many guys, and it is possible that you may begin to like a particular girl, but by the time you arrive to visit, she may be committed to someone else.

2.) By all means, stay in a hotel AND have a back-up plan if it doesn't work out. It's ok if you want to spend significant time getting to know this girl, but as soon as you realize it isn't going to work, visit an agency and forget about that girl ASAP.

3.) Don't get married or engaged on your first trip. TAKE YOUR TIME to get to know the girl. In Latin America, there are many many people that would love to come to the US, and many people will do some of the most craziest things just to get here. I'm taking the advice of my Latin American friends on this one. The way I see it is, if the girl wants to be with you, she will consistently show you this over time. But, if all she wants is the green card, she's not going to stay committed to you for long unless you give her money or are willing to marry quickly. The green card sharks go for the first guy that proposes and says "I DO." So don't be a fool.

My whole idea about this is there needs to be genuine love before there can be a happy marriage.

Aaron

[NW Jim]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Aaron on Mar 2, 2002

[H2Oh]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Aaron on Mar 2, 2002

Great advice!!! Well said.

[H2Oh]

... in response to Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken, I would stay in the hotel. After maybe 2 or 3 more visits then I would consider a few nights at their home.
Pros, you don't spend any money on hotels. Cons, you are at their mercy. You can't come and go as you please. If you go out to dinner you pay for the whole family. You are expected to buy all the groceries for the family. Just my thought on this point. I don't see alot of upside to staying with the family.

H2-Oh

[Wayne]

... in response to Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken,

I was trying to be subtle...

Here's my take.  You have absolutely no idea if you are going to fall in love with this girl or not.  There are countless cases of guys writing for many months to find out in 10 minutes after they get off the plane that it is not going to fly.  Who knows...it could be the love of your life.

A huge build up can lead to a sad dissapointment if you agree to stay with family and on and on.  If you don't like her, you will still feel obligated to spend alot of time with her.

Stay in a Hotel, go to an agency, meet more then one girl, and keep your options open.  If you are like me, you have a twisted view of dating from the states, that needs to be streightened out in Cali before you can do anything.  Keep it casual, no serious talk before you meet.  The love of your life could be the 17th girl you meet down there.  Don't get hung up on #1 because you will never make it to your perfect match.  Like I said maybe this girl is the one.

Just my 2 pesos.
And that is probably about how much it is worth.
Wayne

[Ken2]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Wayne on Mar 2, 2002

Fellows~
I appreciate all your comments ~ Thanks.  I think your right about staying with the family. However,I was considering the cultural aspects of the visit and all I might learn.  Catch 22.

I know that the girl Im writing is "very" involved in her church as is her family (her pastor knows of me as well as  her friends and relatives). So, I have little doubt or fear about her being untruthful of having ulterior motives. However, your right... compatibility is a major necessity, no doubt.  At this juncture I think we may be, but then again you never know till you meet.(Been there).  

My only concern lies with the issue of limiting myself to just her.  We have had great conversations and now I fell like I might have led her to believe she is the absolute only one for me.   She has not been in touch with anyone but me for awhile(I think because of her beliefs/values). Hmmm

Through all this my only frustration has been the pictures she sent almost two weeks ago by Fed Ex ~ they have not arrived.  I have sent two packages to her via Avianca and she got them both within a week.  Of course I have tons of email pictures, but theres no substitute for the real thing.  

thanks again... I  may really need to re~think  some of my earlier conceptions and see if there realistic as we are all prone to get off track and lose focus.

cheers,

Ken

[H2Oh]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken, you said that she is very involved with her church. Please remember that what she believes and practices in real life is, may not be, the same as what you believe and practice. She may have the same faith but everything is different in Colombia. I will bet you that when you get to Colombia you will find other chicas that you would like to date. Error on the side of safety. This is to important a trip for you. Look for the red flags...... and pay attention!!!

H2-Oh

H2-Oh

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken2

I don't want to be an "agua fiesta" and the others may jump on me for it but don't be "ingenio". I suspect you don't KNOW the pastor knows about you, have you spoken with him? Or the friends and relatives either. Regarding the package, I doubt she sent it. No doubt she had good intentions but Fed-Ex from Colombia? That's big pesos. Colombians just don't spend money frivolously like that unless they're awfully rich and even then. Sorry, hope I'm wrong but even if I'm not don't take it badly. Just go and see how things really are. And stay at a hotel!

[Ken2]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Cali vet on Mar 2, 2002

Hola~

your post made me chuckle even laugh...no offense taken.  Her brother has called 2 times.  He lives in New Jersey (Im told). The first call I missed so he left a message and asked me to return the call, but no number.  Last night he called and left a message, but the number was incorrect. 202 is a DC area code not Jersey.(?) She said she would email his number Monday.

I told her last night I would not send another package (books for learning English)until I received her letter.
I'm not real concerned about being burned. I doubt Ive expended over $200 in calls, pictures, shipping.  I'm pretty discerning.

However, all the advice makes me wonder if Im stepping into this in a over confident manner.  Shouldn't one start off trusting the other person?  Then adjust as you go?

I guess theres a lot I don't know about the process Im getting involved in.  

Gracias,

Ken

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken,

Asking her for the tracking number of the FedEx package is good to double check on the package (if there is one) and her honesty.

Also, I would test her on two fronts. You say that her brother knows about you, and has tried to contact you. Well, I suggest for you to pursue meeting her brother in person. Tell her and him that you would like to meet him prior to your visit. But, remember, if you meet the brother prior to visiting her, DO NOT carry any packages from her brother to Bogota for her. I don't recommend doing this since you really don't know them that well. Find out where her brother lives, what he does, and see how religious he is. Also, ask the girl about her brother and his life style. Ask her about his personality, where he lives, his job, his religious commitment, etc. etc.. In Latino families, especially the ones that are religious, the family members are very close, and each person keeps up on the day to day lives of each other.  

If what your girl tells you about her brother, and what he tells you about himself (or what you see about him in person)don't corroborate, then that's a RED FLAG.

Also, if her family is close and religious, most likely they will expect you to meet the brother before you travel.
But, if it seems that you cannot get in contact with him, and that he doesn't show much interest in meeting with you, and possibly avoiding you, then that's a RED FLAG.

Also, if she says that she doesn't want you to meet her brother, and gives you some kind of excuse, then that's a RED FLAG.

Then, say you do meet her "brother" and things seem fine so far. Then, you finally travel to visit her and spend some time. If I were you, when I get there with the family, I would ask to see some photos of her and her family, just casually, to get to know them better. You could ask to see some older and newer family photos. When you look at the photos, and if the guy who you met as her brother in the US isn't in any of the family photos, then that's a huge RED FLAG.

From what you told us so far, the only things I find a little strange is the FedEx package, and the incorrect telephone number her brother gave you. You'll have to double check these things. From my experience with Colombians, and from what Cali-Vet told you too, is that Colombians don't generally spend their money frivolously. I'll even say this about the rich ones, too. However, Colombians are very resoucesful, and if they are in a better economical situation and educated, they will know many ways to send you things. She could have sent you the photos electronically, and as for the package, regular mail would have been sufficient. So don't underestimate educated Colombians. Many of my Colombian friends, who were born and raised in Colombia, are some of the most up to date information and technologically aware people I have come across, even when comparing them to Americans.

Also, the fact that she says she has mentioned you to her pastor (or priest) and wants you to stay with her family indicates that she's looking for something "serious." She wants you to get close to the family, and make a serious commitment, sooner or later. So don't be naive. Another way you can test her is to request to go TO CHURCH with her when her pastor is there preaching a sermon or in his office. MAKE SURE YOU MEET HIM AT CHURCH performing his duties.

Ken, I don't see anything alarming in your situation yet, but after these few things I pointed out, if she fails any one of them, then STAY CLEAR OF HER.

I hope not, but it could be possible, that this girl is inventing the whole story about everything, and using religion to hide behind her true intentions. This happens all the time with all kinds of girls in any country. The guy who she puts on to be the pastor or priest could be just another "Joe Blow" with a little knowledge about Christianity, but corrupt as hell.

AND, don't be surpised about me saying this, but this has happened to others before I'm sure; the guy she says is her brother could possibly be a boyfriend who was able to get into the US, but doesn't have the means to bring her here. Or he could be a brother or a cousin. You never know, so you have to confirm if she's telling you the truth.

Now, as for this method of meeting women. I don't think there is anything bad about meeting people this way, especially for guys or gals that are interested in partners from a particular ethnic group or race. But, the problems start to happen when people with alterior motives become involved. This goes hand in hand with all kinds of dating relationships, especially for people from more stable countries looking for foreign spouses from less stable countries. So, with this in mind, WE have to start a stringent screening process with the people we meet, and we can't take the chance on marrying someone who doesn't keep up their end of the bargin. If she is sincere about finding a good husband from the US, and she's truely interested in you, she'll understand that she has to show a high level of commitment so that she doesn't lose you to another girl, or so that you wont think that all she wants is to get a green card. And if she's sincere, she'll show her commitment to you over time.

Aaron

[Cali vet]

... in response to ALSO..., posted by Aaron on Mar 3, 2002

AAron

You make some good points and I'm glad you reminded us that Colombians can often send a package or letter up with someone which can then be mailed within the states to the designated receiver. That's very true. I myself have been asked to bring back letters to mail in the states and after carefully scaping out all the...just kidding. But you are right, they are resoursefull. And that reminds me of another red flag: if a girl one is corrosponding with says she can't receive your call because she has no phone. There is ALWAYS a neighbor who does.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken,

Asking her for the tracking number of the FedEx package is good to double check on the package (if there is one) and her honesty.

Also, I would test her on two fronts. You say that her brother knows about you, and has tried to contact you. Well, I suggest for you to pursue meeting her brother in person. Tell her and him that you would like to meet him prior to your visit. But, remember, if you meet the brother prior to visiting her, DO NOT carry any packages from her brother to Bogota for her. I don't recommend doing this since you really don't know them that well. Find out where her brother lives, what he does, and see how religious he is. Also, ask the girl about her brother and his life style. Ask her about his personality, where he lives, his job, his religious commitment, etc. etc.. In Latino families, especially the ones that are religious, the family members are very close, and each person keeps up on the day to day lives of each other.  

If what your girl tells you about her brother, and what he tells you about himself (or what you see about him in person)don't corroborate, then that's a RED FLAG.

Also, if her family is close and religious, most likely they will expect you to meet the brother before you travel.
But, if it seems that you cannot get in contact with him, and that he doesn't show much interest in meeting with you, and possibly avoiding you, then that's a RED FLAG.

Also, if she says that she doesn't want you to meet her brother, and gives you some kind of excuse, then that's a RED FLAG.

Then, say you do meet her "brother" and things seem fine so far. Then, you finally travel to visit her and spend some time. If I were you, when I get there with the family, I would ask to see some photos of her and her family, just casually, to get to know them better. You could ask to see some older and newer family photos. When you look at the photos, and if the guy who you met as her brother in the US isn't in any of the family photos, then that's a huge RED FLAG.

From what you told us so far, the only things I find a little strange is the FedEx package, and the incorrect telephone number her brother gave you. You'll have to double check these things. From my experience with Colombians, and from what Cali-Vet told you too, is that Colombians don't generally spend their money frivolously. I'll even say this about the rich ones, too. However, Colombians are very resoucesful, and if they are in a better economical situation and educated, they will know many ways to send you things. She could have sent you the photos electronically, and as for the package, regular mail would have been sufficient. So don't underestimate educated Colombians. Many of my Colombian friends, who were born and raised in Colombia, are some of the most up to date information and technologically aware people I have come across, even when comparing them to Americans.

Also, the fact that she says she has mentioned you to her pastor (or priest) and wants you to stay with her family indicates that she's looking for something "serious." She wants you to get close to the family, and make a serious commitment, sooner or later. So don't be naive. Another way you can test her is to request to go TO CHURCH with her when her pastor is there preaching a sermon or in his office. MAKE SURE YOU MEET HIM AT CHURCH performing his duties.

Ken, I don't see anything alarming in your situation yet, but after these few things I pointed out, if she fails any one of them, then STAY CLEAR OF HER.

I hope not, but it could be possible, that this girl is inventing the whole story about everything, and using religion to hide behind her true intentions. This happens all the time with all kinds of girls in any country. The guy who she puts on to be the pastor or priest could be just another "Joe Blow" with a little knowledge about Christianity, but corrupt as hell.

AND, don't be surpised about me saying this, but this has happened to others before I'm sure; the guy she says is her brother could possibly be a boyfriend who was able to get into the US, but doesn't have the means to bring her here. Or he could be a brother or a cousin. You never know, so you have to confirm if she's telling you the truth.

Now, as for this method of meeting women. I don't think there is anything bad about meeting people this way, especially for guys or gals that are interested in partners from a particular ethnic group or race. But, the problems start to happen when people with alterior motives become involved. This goes hand in hand with all kinds of dating relationships, especially for people from more stable countries looking for foreign spouses from less stable countries. So, with this in mind, WE have to start a stringent screening process with the people we meet, and we can't take the chance on marrying someone who doesn't keep up their end of the bargin. If she is sincere about finding a good husband from the US, and she's truely interested in you, she'll understand that she has to show a high level of commitment so that she doesn't lose you to another girl, or so that you wont think that all she wants is to get a green card. And if she's sincere, she'll show her commitment to you over time.

Aaron

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogota, posted by Ken2 on Mar 2, 2002

Ken, English study materials are almost certainly cheaper in Bogotá.

Also, get the FedEx tracking number from her and you can track the package on the internet very easily. If I were you, I'd take advantage of this golden opportunity to check her honesty. Two weeks is a looong time for FedEx to take in sending something; I sent paperwork to Ukraine once via either FedEx or Airborne Express and it only took a couple of days. If she didn't really send it, that tells you all you need to know about whether she's fit to marry, and I wouldn't pass up the chance to check her out on this.

[Ken2]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to Bogo..., posted by Bueller on Mar 3, 2002

Well,

When I called her last night she said she called FEd Ex and they told her it would take an additional 20 days on top of the 2 weeks.  Is this like Groung service ~By Boat!?  Anyway,  she will have her sister send her fotos from the East Coast this week.  I still think she sent it.  I sent 2 US post letters that she never received (not Avianca).  Things happen ~  verda?   Have a good day!!

Ken

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trip to ..., posted by Ken2 on Mar 3, 2002

Ken, 20 days on top of two weeks? FedEx? FedEx has a domestic package in its possession an average of 11 hours. Get the tracking number and verify what she's telling you. She is almost certainly lying to you. If she is it should be automatic dismissal, assuming you want to marry someone you can trust.