Another Child Question

[unsure]

I have another child question similar to the one below...

My Russian fiancee informed me yesterday that she told her ex-husband she was moving to America.  She said he became quite upset.  Now in this case, he DOES see his son.  I'm not sure how regularly but it does appear to have some consistency.  So what kind of mess have I gotten myself into and how much trouble can he cause?

[unsure]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

I have sent an email to my fiancee asking for more info.  I had kind of assumed he doesn't pay child support but we'll see....

[BrianN]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

from day 1.  The kid is involved with his father... therefore, the father didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.  Right now you're going to get married to him too, just as if you married a woman from alabama that had kids with an involved father.

For you or your fiance to consider taking him away from what he knows as "dad" forever, without talking to the KID and DAD about it, you're asking for more trouble than you could ever imagine imo.

Forget the lady (and the trouble HE can cause) for the moment and consider just what that kid is thinking and may be mentally/emotionally going through.

Regarding your mess that you've gotten yourself into?  I'd reset priorities and start looking at what kind of mess you two guys got this kid into. His welfare should come first, and taking him away from "dad", will not do anyone any good in the end.

You didn't provide any details about the kids age, actual experience with dad etc... as well, your best estimate of involvement is "some consistency?".  You and her need to sit down and TALK about this.  This ain't a legal problem, this is a moral one.

Don't screw this kid up, whatever you do.

[Cain]

... in response to This is a no brainer...., posted by BrianN on Jun 12, 2002

I don't know exactly what you should do in this situation.  I'm pretty sure you are still intent on bringing the lady over.  Don't let this ruin your plan.  The only thing I would add is that if you and your Woman return to their country for a visit, please don't exclude the guy from seeing his kid.  If he is a good father, I think he at least deserves as much as to be able to see his kid when you go back.  It would be wrong for us US guys to get so involved with these women and then sh!t all over the guys that are over there.  I'm sure you've thought of that already though
-cain

[JohnG]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

First, see Oscar's posts below, they are quite true.

There are two issues here. What she can do, and what is morally right.

Everyone I asked about this before bringing my wife and her daughter to America told me that written permission is NOT required and will not be asked for, as long as the child is listed in the mother's passports.

I was still edgy, so I had her get her ex-husband's permission anyway. Just as I had been advised, she was never asked to show it, not at the American Embassy, not at Moscow airport, not at JFK.

In my case, the father never paid child support and never visited his child. A no-brainer. He gave no argument to signing the papers we never needed.

If the father of the child in your case IS involved in his child's life, then I'm sure you'd agree that his consent should be gained before removing the child from her country. The mother, and you, need to consider the child's best interests in your decision.

Now I will give you one more tip, which was given to me by many people who had been this route before me.

If she is going to ask the father's permission, she should not tell him that she is moving to America to marry an American. All too frequently, the ex-husband looks to extract a substantial monetary bribe for his signature, and they feel Americans have lots of money. If she told him another reason, for example, she was coming to America for employment reasons, or to study at an American university, the ex-husband will not be looking for the bribe. I don't advocate telling lies, but that's the reality of what you will probably face if the ex knows about you.

Hope this helps...

John

[Apk1]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

My Russian wife tells me your fiance will be questioned at passport control before departure from Moscow if they see her traveling with her child alone, not just because of her leaving Russia to live in America..this even happens on vacations withen Russia. My wife has a paper she showed them indicating her son does not have a father, her boys surname is the same as her maidenname so she does not have any problem traveling with him. My wife told me of a few occasions she has seen people detained with children because they did not have written permission to travel. This is not a throwback to Soviet days..it is normal practice throughout the civilized world. I took my daughter to Europe for 2 weeks a few years ago, each time we boarded a plane they asked for a supporting letter..which I had.

If her ex husband is paying child support...and many do in Russia, she will need written permission from him. If he objects and contacts the police...they will alert passport control.

The bottom line is this...get it in writing.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

For one thing... you are speaking of Russia... which may be very different from Ukraine...

Secondly, what level of custody does the woman have? That makes a big difference...

You say the man is involved in his child's life... what does that mean? Does the man pay child support? This will also make a big difference.

Frankly, I think that if he has some level of custody, and he pays child support, he can cause a lot of trouble.

And, to tell you the truth... rightly so. If he is involved in his child's life, and pays support, I think you have  a moral obligation to get his consent.

Maybe I am sensitive to this because I am a single dad, but, put yourself in his shoes... How would you feel?

I once broke off a relationship with a woman who lived in Louisiana on this very issue. Her ex was a good father and had joint custody. There was no way he could move to Dallas... there was no way I could move to Louisiana... and there was no way I was going to take another man's child away from him.

Also, you need to think of the child. If the father is still involved in the child's life... how will they feel to be torn away from him?

Don't just do what is legal: Do what is right...

One reason we go to the FSU is for "Traditional Family Values."

What kind of Family Values takes a child away from a caring father?

[Dan]

... in response to Wait a minute..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 12, 2002

n/t

[Del]

... in response to Wait a minute..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 12, 2002

As both a Father and a Step-Father it is a no-brainer for me - and, I would never wish to subject my wife to an involvement in any possible future 'child abduction' actions.
Yes, it can be a huge hassle to obtain permissions, but, if all else fails, the local (Russian and Ukrainian) courts can issue a 'Court Order' allowing the custodial parent to remove the minor. I understand that this would likely cost in the area of $300 -$500.
Just because an Embassy will issue a woman and her child a Visa without the Father's permission to remove the child DOES NOT make it "right".
Moreover, have you ever dealt with an angry teenager? I can guarantee that this will resurface in the future.

[Cain]

... in response to Wait a minute..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 12, 2002

.

[WmGo]

... in response to Wait a minute..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 12, 2002

Good post Mark

[Oscar]

... in response to Another Child Question, posted by unsure on Jun 12, 2002

If she has sole custody through the divorce, you are fine.. He could still try to bribe a judge of police, which would mean he is looking for a payoff, but legally, you do not need permission from him..

[Dan]

... in response to Re: Another Child Question, posted by Oscar on Jun 12, 2002

As I understand this situation, those involved would be immigrating from Russia.

- Dan

[Oscar]

... in response to I Understand That Del is Correct - Russi..., posted by Dan on Jun 12, 2002

according to both of the web sites I quoted from and posted links for.. They are saying it is the same for Eussia and Ukraine..

[Dan]

... in response to Moscow & Warsaw are the same on the ..., posted by Oscar on Jun 12, 2002

n/t