Statistics

[Johnny W]

... in response to No, the US is better than lots of places, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2001

It depends on what you mean with being wealthy. Nobody doubt that the USA is a powerful nation with lot of resources, human and material. The problem is that your political system disperse those resources so uneven. A lot of power and wealth are concentrated on a few hands. Even if there are a big middle-class in America, none Western country has so many poor and homeless people. None Western country has so many illiterates and children that is starving. None Western country has so much crime. It's a shame for your country that Norway needs to give aid to American children. On the list over the standard of living in different countries published by the UN, the USA got a very little flattering position. On the top of the list were some small countries in Western Europe (I'm too modest to write the name of my own country :-)). The problem is that most American are so ignorant about the world around them, that they still think America has the highest standard of living. Maybe it was the truth long time ago, but the world is changing, and since so many of you don't like to travel so see how other people are living, you still are having that delusion.

Johnny W

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: No, the US is better than lots of pl..., posted by Johnny W on Dec 16, 2001

The reason you guys in Norway have it so good is because you have all that North Sea oil money revenue to spend on just a few million people.  When that runs out, things won't be so easy.  

I don't worry about the nonsense published by the UN.  Only socialism scores well with them.  We don't have national health care but so what.  A coworker had his wife injured in an accident and he said if he still lived in England, his wife would be crippled for life.  They would never have spent the money necessary to make her walk again as our company insurance.  In England, several thousand women die of breast cancer each year because the government won't spend more money for better cancer treatment.  In a couple of countries they try to encourage old people to end their life.  How does that rate with the UN?

What I like about the US is that taxes are not so unreasonably high as Europe, so we can save our money and spend it how we like and not how the government likes.  If we work a little harder, we can make more money and have nicer things.  You can chose many different lifestyles.  If people are lazy and have lots of bad habits that contribute to their circumstances. I do not feel sorry for them.  A lot of homeless people are mentally ill or have drug problems.  It is hard to help people that won't help themselves by taking their medicine or not abusing drugs.  

I have watched people start out in ordinary circumstances and become rich and the weathiest people in town lose their money from stupidity.  People chose their path and it can be up or down.  More that 90% of the poor people in the US have color TVs, microwave ovens, stereos and all the basics. They also tend to be more overweight than rich people, so basically nobody is starving.  About 70% of the people own their own homes.  

I have traveled to several countries and here is a list:

Russia, economically poor but educated and cultured
Latvia, not too bad, alchoholism rampant
Finland, very nice and very educated,
Germany, nice countryside but I didn't see many nice homes
Denmark, Copenhagen was crowded and there were lots of big apartment buildings, it was just ok

New Zealand, had the world's highest standard of living in the 1960s and it looked nice, nobody very wealthy though
Peru, poor and a little scary
Korea, much less than what we have but making fast progress
Malaysia, not so good but making fast progress

Canada, similar to US, lots of Canadians come here because they want to make more money, Canadians complained about how little money they made there, still not bad

[micha1]

... in response to Re: No, the US is better than lots of pl..., posted by Johnny W on Dec 16, 2001

So right,  the US is better than a lot of other places,  but a lot of places are better than the US.  All is in the eyes of
the beholder.  And more, what a person understand, can understand, want to understand.
Forget the nationalism,  my flag is better then yours, mine is bigger than yours, etc.
Ask any girl, love is what it is all about.
When one speaks about love, what comes to mind,  french, french kiss, french love,...
and I am french, so the world is mine.
So forget about nationalism.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: No, the US is better than lots of pl..., posted by Johnny W on Dec 16, 2001

The political system DOES NOT disperse the resources evenly or otherwise. It's up to each individual whether he or she is rich or poor, privilidged or a victim. And yes, I have traveled extensively out of the US and yes, we have more opportunity here than anywhere, and a higher standard of living than anywhere.
-- Jeff S.

[Bob S.]

... in response to That's the whole point, posted by Jeff S on Dec 16, 2001

For me personally, if I had to make a choice, I'd rather live in a one room apartment off Main Street, Huntington Beach than in a 200 room palace somewhere in Lapland, Scandinavia.  Decent weather is never factored in to those U.N. survey's. 8-)

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Standard of Living is all relative, posted by Bob S. on Dec 17, 2001

Germs will freeze to death and you can name your reindeer whatever you want.  

Our buddy would not like Huntington Beach.

[Bob S.]

... in response to Bob, I can see you thriving in Lappland, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 18, 2001

-P
:-)

[Dan]

... in response to No, the US is better than lots of places, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2001

After living a while in Germany, I am not so sure we Americans have the best standard of living and all that. Seems I met more people in Germany (percentage-wise) with leisure time (and money) to travel and take foreign vacations - and the funds to purchase houses - than I have here in the US. Some of this is attributable to their shorter work-week, but some of it is simply due to their overall affluence.

I haven't had the opportunity yet to visit Scandinavia - but I understand the standard-of-living is quite high in all Scandinavian coutries as well.

FWIW

- Dan

[Johnny W]

... in response to Oh, I Don't Know . . ., posted by Dan on Dec 15, 2001

Hi Dan,

Good to meet an American that has been out of his own country. It's true what you write.

The working week here is 37,5 (shorter if you have shift work). The yearly vacation is 5 weeks. Most people own their own houses. It is not unusual that people have house bigger than 200 m2 (1 m = 39.37 U.S. inches). The standard of houses are very high equiped with all kind of modern facilities. Due to taxes cars are expensive in Norway (not so in the rest of Western Europe). In spite of that most families have one or even two cars. (Japanese, Swedish, German and French cars are most popular, but some people also like big American cars). Everybody here travels at least one time every year on a vacation to another country. Thailand, Florida, Spain, Greece the West Indies are popular places for vacation. The best of all is, however, we have good state retirements, good health care, good educational system and no pollution (with the exception of Oslo that has a problem with pollution from cars).

Johnny W

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Oh, I Don't Know . . ., posted by Dan on Dec 15, 2001

Dan,

I still think that that US leads for per capita income -- by a margin.

We in the United States could travel a lot -- anywhere we want -- but we don't set it as a priority. (I am using We to say Americans in general...)

We're too busy buying X-Boxes, TVs for every room of the house, a new car, etc., etc.

Europeans are much more inclined to place a priority on travel, and therefore, are more likely to do it.

Also, going from Germany to France is not as hard to do as it is to go from Texas to France...

Not to say that a RW is better off coming to America... but standard of living... yep, we still lead... IMHO

[tim360z]

... in response to Oh, I Don't Know . . ., posted by Dan on Dec 15, 2001

Tax's are quite high too,  Best,  Tim

[WmGo]

... in response to Scandanavia?, posted by tim360z on Dec 16, 2001

Scandanavia also has the highest:
1. Divorce rate
2. Abortion rate
3. Suicide rate
4. Illigitimacy rate

of all of the industrialized nations.

Probably because it has the *lowest* rate of morality.

This is not to say that I disagree with everything JohnnyW says. He makes some good points about America: too much emphasis on money making and materialism, increasing social isolation, too many people who know little about the world outside of the US (true of all people everywhere). He is obviously wrong about the country being "merciless", in fact the opposite is true. BUT,

The issue is not who has the "best" country or culture. As has been noted above, "there is no place like home."  Quote: Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. So one's viewpoint is necessarily skewed in favor of "Kansas."

The real issue is - what is the true measure? What is the correct yardstick upon which to measure or debate the true value of a nation or culture? Is it material wealth? The existence of socialist welfare programs? A liberal amoral mindset? The best athletes? Or the best movie production? A prevalence towards New Age philosophy or secular humanism? Or maybe Racism/superiority complex (like Nazi Aryanism or Pan Slavism)?

Or perhaps it is morality, mercy and justice. The rule of law. Due process and freedom of speech. Perhaps we should take a look at what the Creator of the Universe has to say about the matter: " Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people." Proverbs 14:34; See also 2 Chronicles 7:14; Deuteronomy 4: 5-9.

The truth is all nations fail the test. Even America, the remnant of Biblical Christianity is sliding. Following in the footsteps of postChristian, postModern Europe.

Let me take this opportunity to once again predict the future: the worldwide moral slide will continue, and wax worse and worse. The good news: John 3:16. Rev. 19:11.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to The Real Issue is not Kansas, posted by WmGo on Dec 18, 2001

But I didn't even want to get into it.  Problems 1, 2 and 4 are an indication of family breakdown which their society is promoting.  Could that be causing problem 3, or can that all be blamed on the weather.  The suicide rate of white males in Scandanavia is more than twice the US rate.  It's about 3 times higher in Japan.  My friend says that it's also a big Chinese problem.  

People in the US are among the happiest people in the world but Iceland had the happiest people even though they have high a alchoholism rate.  This was from a pole a few years back.  Iceland is possible the least ethnically diverse country in the world so maybe that gives them a sense of common purpose.  

A lot of the US success is based on our work ethic, morals and the level of trust we can have in dealing with others.  I think US problems will mount if we continue our moral slide.

[Johnny W]

... in response to Scandanavia?, posted by tim360z on Dec 16, 2001

That's true. Sometimes we pay up to 50% income tax, but our system gives security and welfare to everybody. You don't need to save a lot of money to pay for education and health care, and all immigrants get free education in Norwegian.It means that as soon as she comes here, she will begin to study together with other immigrants and in this way she will learn to know people and can make her own friends. When you also take into consideration that in your  country you hardly know your own neighbours, social isolation is a big problem for foreigners that doesn't speak English well.

Johnny W

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Scandanavia?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 16, 2001

Yes,  tax's are high,  but as you mentioned there are benefits.  My sister has lived in Sweden for the last 10 years and has enjoyed those benefits which would cost considerably here in the USA.  She moved there as a single mother and was amazed by the free health care and child care etc...something which is sorely needed here in the USA.  Of course,  she also misses certain conveniences we take for granted here---so its a trade off.