Statistics

[RW]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

may be yes, may be no
may be rain, may be snow

Russian Wife

[Tootsie]

... in response to Re: Statistics, posted by RW on Dec 15, 2001

nt

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

An 80% divorce rate is believable (but probably a little high) if you consider that the divorce rate in the US is about 55% and in Russia and Ukraine it is over 60%.  It would be hard to get some truly accurate statistics though.  You are also adding on the problems of different cultures, age difference, the couples often don't know each other well, can't communicate, social isolation in a new culture, loss of friends and family, difficulty in selecting the right woman, etc.  Some of the women are just trying to get to the US and are taking anybody that will buy them a ticket here.  Don't expect them to succeed.  

When you think about it though the women are only divorcing at a 20% higher rate than they would in their own country and I'll bet it's a whole lot easier to divorce a Russian woman than an American woman; certain posters comments aside.  

I think a marriage to a RW/UW will be a lot of work just like with an AW.  I remain optimistic because several people I know that married foreign woman are happily married and none divorced.  Only one is Russian, all the other are Asian.  Several posters on this board became interested because they know success stories.  Those that know horror stories probably never became interested.

[tfcrew]

... in response to Yet I remain optimistic, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2001

....Don't "bet"...it is not "easy" to divorce either
Also, why would the Russian reporters choose to make up these stats ? (not that I believe them either)

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Couple of other points..., posted by tfcrew on Dec 15, 2001

My line of thinking is that American women know how to screw you through the legal system a little bit better than Russian women would, but of course they both use American divorce lawyers.  Russian women may have an element of fear that they will lose out while being portrayed as a scammer woman from Russia in our court system.  

From American news media, I they just don't like you rejecting your own women here for a young pretty foreign one.  It is also partly our rejection of the feminist attitudes of our women.  

From the Russian perspective, it could look like a failure of their culture compared to the capitalism of the west.  The poverty in foreign countries and its negative effects on their families and social conditions shows the failure of their economic systems versus ours.  But, we do get too caught up with money sometimes and that is a valid criticism of us.

[Dan]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

Did they cite their sources? Are the sources reliable? If not (or neither) - then WHY do you trust them?

Have you considered what 'agenda' NTV may be pushing these days??

Your post - while mildly interesting - simply raises dozens of questions before it can be considered the least bit credible.

BTW - wasn't it Russian news programming that gave accounts of 8 hijacked planes in America on 9/11??

- Dan

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Do You Believe Them??, posted by Dan on Dec 15, 2001

Sign me up for the Dan fan club.  That's twice I praised you in 2 days.

I think a lot of news agencies hate the whole concept of men going abroad to marry women and the women that marry them.  You see it in the US and I would not be surprised if the attitude over in Russian or Ukraine is similar. Happy couples are pretty quiet but the bad marriages are like a bomb going off.  Everybody hears about it and it makes the news.  Good news gets poor ratings.  

You know we have seen couples that have at least succeeded so far on TV.  Remember the story ABC's 20/20 did on the 3 married couples and what were their chances of divorce?  The man married to the Russian woman was most likely to stay married even though she was a model that met good looking men every week.  Then you also had that contestant on "Who wants to be a millionaire?".  They looked happy.  

[micha1]

... in response to That's another good point Dan, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2001

You hit right on the head,  happy people (couples here) have no story, they are happy, that is all.
The ones,  we are hearing about, are the sad story.
Unfornately there  has to be rain and sunshine.
Didn't someone say, earlier on a post,  that it does take two to tango and also to tangle

[Dan]

... in response to That's another good point Dan, posted by BubbaGump on Dec 15, 2001

I haven't kept up with the very latest developments - but about a year ago NTV was considered to be relatively independent of government influence. Suddenly, for reasons I only vaguely recall, ownership of NTV was ripped from teh hands of the founders, and placed under teh auspices of GazProm. GazProm, as it turns out, is the national Gas company of Russia - and there was some debate about ownership and interests. Clearly, Putin had some significant influence in all of this - and while it, perhaps, cannot be legitimately claimed that NTV is now nationalized - one has to wonder about al the shady dealings that resulted in the takeover.

You may recall some months back that the staff of NTV had staged a mild protest that reached international headlines. They did not want to work for their new taskmasters assigned by the GazProm organization.

If there is one single tenet of freedom that MUST be sacrosanct - it is the freedom of the press. Without a truly free press, corruption and crime are allowed to run rampant. One need only look at events in Russia and Ukraine to begin to understand how important this is. Have you heard about the beheading of the journalist in Ukraine (Gonghadze) that is allegedly due directly to the President's dissatisfaction with him? It ultimately led to Kuchma's (the President of Ukraine) manipulating his chief Deputy (Yuschenko) out of office. How about the editor of the Kiev Post (an English-newspaper in Ukraine) being detained for days when he tried to re-enter the country from a trip abroad? No reason given - just simple harassment - along with a message.

I wonder who ended up replacing those journalists at NTV when they were forcibly removed from their offices???

- Dan

[micha1]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

I have no problem with your numbers,  it is about the norm, right now, everywhere.
Because in the west we do not count the people living together without being married, and who split up down the
road.  Or the couples staying together because of material-financial reasons and the kids. Church, social
pressure, etc.
Anyway in a normal love story, passion only last for something like seven days to seven years.
So when some guys bring on top of all that (passion) the church and fidelity, they are on their way to the
mediators, lawyers and divorce courts.

[Del]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

but liars figure!!  An old adage that is even more true today than when it was created - one can "cook" (work backwards from) any set of numbers to 'prove a point'.
I have no quarrel with anyone saying that the chance of any marriage 'failing' is much higher today than it was say 50 years ago, and likewise, no quarrel with a 'comment' that 'intercultural' marriages may have a higher failure rate due to the increased burdens placed upon both partners due to linguistic, historical and cultural differences.
It may well be that the numbers of those wearing 'rose coloured glasses' may well be higher in 'intercultural' unions.
Nevertheless, it not only 'takes two to tango', it also 'takes to to tangle'.

[tim360z]

... in response to Statistics, posted by Tootsie on Dec 15, 2001

bent and biased and skewed.  There is the validity of the sample to consider.  How the data is gathered and interroplated.  Garbage in= Garbage out.  One cannot beleive each and every stat thrown out.  I am not sure,  but I do think that AM/RW marriages should have a divorce rate somewhat consistent with AM/AW divorces.  And perhaps the former should be a little higher due to cultural differences and the quality of people getting married.  So,  I find 80% rather high...but 65% should probably be in line.  In todays pervasive world marriage to anyone is not a really good bet.  The odds at a blackjack table in Vegas are much better and less costly.  And you can walk away from the table with your shirt and shoes on.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Statistics and stats can be, posted by tim360z on Dec 15, 2001

Some time ago, I wrote a post that used blackjack to compare and analyze this whole RW/AM thing.

I'll not repost it now... but let me talk about Blackjack for a second.

If you play perfect blackjack, the house maintains about a two percent edge on you. While that does not seem like much, the fact is that if you sit down to a $5 blackjack table with $100 and play perfect blackjack, you will lose it all in about three hours.

Most people lose it in much less. Because they play with emotion, and they play hunches.

So... about marriage and divorce. Yes, I can believe the 80% figure -- especially if it is including in its number the amount of women who return home at the end of 90 days.

Why?

Look at the people going over!

I'm not even talking about anyone on here. How many men who are doing this even read this board? What percentage of men who are heading to the FSU have even taken the time to chat with people who have done it before?

What are their expectations? They are set by Anastasia's website. What do you think they are believing? That they will marry a woman who is twenty years their junior, and who will be a good wife to them forever. They go over on a tour, pick a woman from a line-up because she's pretty, and bring her over to get married.

Or they pick a pretty face from a catalog. Write her for a few months. Then go over and get her.

What percentage of these marriages do you think have a chance of making it? It is like the guy with $100 sitting down at the blackjack table and playing hunches.

Now, as you might guess, I play a fair amount of blackjack. I have sat at tables and watched that streak-player come and go a lot. I have seen a few who made money. Incredibly, I have seen some make a lot of money.

But I have seen far more lose it all. And lose it quickly.

It's a little game I play. When someone sits down and buys  in with $40 or something, I look at my watch, and try to guess how long he'll last.

It isn't very long.

But, do you know the guys who are usually sitting there with me for a very long time? The guys who buy in with $500. When that happens, the pit boss will come over and look at the guy, so he remembers him.

This guy usually plays with little emotion. His moves can be tracked, easily, because he plays "by the book". He'll vary his bet from time to time, but never his play. In the end, he frequently gets up with more money than he sat down with.

He beats the odds.

Why? Because he has A) Enough money to stay in the game, and B) A system that works.

IMHO, That's the only way to win the FSU game, as well.

Unless you think you're lucky.

But... before you do... you ought to go to Vegas. At night. Stand on the strip and see the amazing buildings rise to the sky -- adorned with a million lights. And tell yourself:

"This city was built with the help of a lot of people who felt lucky..."

-M-

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Re: Statistics and stats can be, posted by MarkInTx on Dec 15, 2001

impression that a cerain number of guys thinkin' about marrying an RW/UW certainly need a little check-up from the neck-up.  Like a little psyschological tune-up.  Like they are more than a little nuts or whacked or beyond rational.  Sorta swimmin' in their own little fish tank...all alone.  Maybe they are thinkin' they are going to buy their own little sexzombie or something.  If they somehow get married...are they due to be divorced....sure.  Like one girl I know wanted to know if all western men are nuts.  Ya know,  shes with an agency and she gets letters from guys all the time who in their first letter write they are in love with her and many in the 2nd letter want her to marry them.  Of course,  shes smart enough to know these guys are whacked.  But,  maybe some other girl,  poorer and less educated will fall for it and definitely get divorced.  I think there is probably a disproportinate % of whacked guys pursuing RW/UW's.  Just my take on it and stats and all that.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Re: Statistics and stats can be, posted by MarkInTx on Dec 15, 2001

Yeah!  I agree with your blackjack stats.  And that most guys never even make it to this board until it is way too late....they were feelin'  a little lucky...or something.  Then you have to realize the savy of the players in the game.  Now,  i have a good idea of the savy some of the guys on this board have some are quite good....but I really do not know much about all the others out there.  But,  some of the other characters out there...I dunno know.