Proper time to take commitment

[Del]

... in response to I wish I knew the answer....., posted by RW on Dec 5, 2001

that the first "love" (lust, infatuation, call it what you will) is the 'glue that binds' while the relationship is forming and solidifing into a solid "relationship".
Perhaps that is why it is said that the 'first year' casts the mold?
Then, if the foundation is solid, all other factors can be safely built upon it?

[Ryan]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

When I was a younger man I would sit in my room of my fathers home reading many different books.  Thinking to myself how I could make since of my life.  Why am I on this earth, how can I live happy, with a loving heart in such a world as I live.  Searching threw wise words from many.  I once read a translation from Plato that contemplated upon the workings of music, breaking it down, like he was so talented at, into basic thoughts.   He wrote about a mathematical formula that Pythagorean used the 3-4-5 triangles.  How in finding two sides of this triangle it was always possible to find the third side.  Plato applied this formula to music in that all music has three sides a harmony, melody and rhythm.  If you had two of the three you were certain to find the third.  If you had the harmony of the song and the melody you were always assured to find the rhythm.  Just as if you had the rhythm and the harmony you were assured to find the melody and so on.  I thought about this formula many times as I grew up.  It was this formula that brought me to Architecture as I use it everyday in my drawings.  I have applied this formula to many things in life not just music and architecture.  As it is the rhythm of my heart beating when I get your letters the melody that comes from reading your words.  I am just assured to find that one day our meeting will give me my harmony.

Life is full of happiness and sorrows it is what makes life so wonderful.  Some people have great sex after a heated argument.  Or the American women with her need for drama that without she will often looses interest.  Love is something that we cannot always put our finger on.  I feel it is a harmony that comes from a rhythm and a melody.  Others make it what they will, they know what floats their boat and Love is not always their reason for finding friends in Ukraine or Russia, companionship, spreading their seed, a status symbol, or someone to help out with the day-to-day things.  Love can come from anyone of these things.

Ok if your lost then join the club is anyone sure what true love is?

[thesearch]

... in response to True Love?, posted by Ryan on Dec 5, 2001

Good post Ryan,

It certainly gets one to think.

In addition to that truth as it may be - I  will tell you why I think that we get confused about love.

One reason has to do with all the psychological baggage that people have that complicates it. Humans are such sensitive creatures that we come out of childhood even if it was a good one scarred - then reactive for the rest of one's life being a puppet responding to software of programmed responses.

All of this gets in the way of love. Without all of this, love would be clean, fresh, honest and unconditional.

So, you have to deal with every one's stuff as well as your own and hope love can survive.

The triangle to me also describes what I see as sick co-dependent relationships also.

The truer one is to one's heart and less a product of programmed responses the more clear one is about love.

[Zink]

... in response to True Love?, posted by Ryan on Dec 5, 2001

At least it's sunny where I'm at. Interesting analogy. I will have to remember it. I was once challenged and told that I didn't know anything about love. I asked that woman what did she know about it? I told her to teach me and show me what she thought it was. She couldn't do it.

Trying to understand and quantify the intangible things in life is difficult. And yet those intangibles are what makes life worth living. All of the money and material things are worthless if a person isn't happy. And what is it that makes any one of us happy?

We all need to look deep within ourselves and try to find what we really want. If we don't know what we want how can we ever find it? Sometimes soul searching can be a scary thing but I think it is neccessary if you want to become a better person.

Just some thoughts from a guy who is very deeply involved in trying to decide where to go with his life.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

The one other thing...

Is the idea of a fiancee Visa having three months is for you to make SURE that you want to go through with it.

In other words... use the three months to really decide if you BOTH will be happy here, together.

Three months isn't very long, as you said Tootsie. And yet, many people don't even bother using the three months they are given...

However, having said that... I think back on my marriage... and I recall that my wife and I knew what we wanted after a month. Of course... that ended in Divorce enventually... so maybe I am inadvertently proving Tootsie's point.

Aaaargh! Now I don't know what I'm trying to say...

-- we now return you to your regular scheduled programming --

[mdante99]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

Tootsie:

Your advice is sound; but research in USA has shown that people with long courtships have a higher divorce ratio.

Why?
As Mark in Texas pointed out below, marriage takes a lot of commitement; some people can make that commitment with a brief courtship, some people are unwilling to make that commitment regardless of the time spent in courtship.

In my case, I brought my RW here after knowing her for a short time; she has been here for eight months; we waited till the end of her 90 days on K-1 to get married. Our relationship is excellent and gets better all the time. We both are very happy with our decisions.
It is far better today than it was when I first met her in her country.

If I followed your advice, I would still be single.

You can see our wedding photos at the yahoo album link below.

Mark

[thesearch]

... in response to I Beg to Differ, posted by mdante99 on Dec 5, 2001

I would have to see the actual times frames in the study that would show this. You may not have actually read the study but heard about the results from what you might or might not consider a reliable source. I have just learned that what one hears is not always as it appears. You may be absolutely correct about this but......................

My guess is this is what you would find or should look at - being three categories and not two.

1) Those that have a short romance and get married (within 6 months or at least set the date and follow thru)  

2) Those that wait a year but not more than two

3) Those that date for several years and then get married hitched.

I would not be surprised if Group 1) did better than Group 3) as Group 3) is going to have a lot of people getting married because it has become comfortable but they were not excited about each other enough to get married right away - but now it seems like the thing to do.

However, does Group 1) do better than Group 2)? And were there as many in Group 1) as Group 2) or 3) to compare to? Most people I meet did not get married so quickly. I mean some guys go to the FSU after writing for several months. Take a look at the lady - take note that she has both legs and arms and that she just happens to be more attractive than what he is used to and she seems awful sweet - so he says "I'll take her" ----Lets file a K-1 and I will look at the three month deadline. However, once you go thru all of this, it is not as easy to stop the process and not follow thru as it would be with a lady you were simply dating from your own city/town/countryside. You might be more prone to ignore some concerns hoping they are not real.

All I can do is speak from my own personal experience. I have felt very strong for some women but after being with them more -their real personality came out and I found that to get married would have been a BIG mistake. Had I not been given more time, I would not have been able to find this out. I would never want to be in Group 3) and marry because it seemed the thing to do. I would prefer to be in Group 1) but for me that has never happened that I would be such inclined - maybe it is not my nature and I could never be a Group 1) type - I would like to think that I could.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is I tend to agree with Tootsie at this point. I think to think otherwise could be - just could be - rationalizing away this to allow one to proceed more easily because that is what one has as their agenda.

When I say you I mean one

[Zink]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

The distance really is the hardest part of these relationships. Only with time spent together do we get to really know each other. I can learn more about a person by spending a few hours observing them and not even talking than I can through dozens of letters.

I know that many of the mistakes that I made in Russia were because I felt I was on a time limit. When you only have a few days you think that you must do certain things. But when is the proper time for anything? That is something I still haven't learned. Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules for how to make a succesful relationship. There are just too many variables.

I agree with your post.
Regards, Zink

[Ryan]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

This whole process of finding a RW as a wife and doing it by bringing them over and just going for it is a hard pill to swallow.  If I had this advice last year and took it to heart I would be a much happier person today.  I wanted love now as I felt it and she felt it but she said it would take time and I then took that as she either didn't like me or was scamming me and dragging things out.  

It is a fine line we walk but if we take that Russian saying "If there is a desire one looks for opportunity, if there is no desire one looks for a reason."  Or in America we say "If you really want something you can get with a little extra effort."

I have also listened to another interesting point of view.  Go over there find yourself a babe and bring her home.  If she runs then go back and find another one.  Keep doing this until your Viagra pills no longer work. You’re bound to have a much better time of it than dating these American women.  So love is what then.  Does it really mater to everyone looking?

Ryan

[Del]

... in response to Proper time to take commitment, posted by Tootsie on Dec 5, 2001

the cold wet nose of your dog, telling you that you are truly loved, no matter what!!!!!

[thesearch]

... in response to Love is........, posted by Del on Dec 5, 2001

This further expains my post above in this tread entitled "True Illness"  because dogs are less prone to the same problem as humans. Thank you - it helped me to even better understand my own post.

For anyone who has had a dog - I would think that most have experienced this unconditional love that your dog gives you. You can bank on it. My post I referred to is one reason you can not bank on humans like you can dogs.

The lady that I became involved with had some serious emotional baggage that became clear on our second visit. She would have been a big mistake. However, a lot of time and money down the drain and I now find myself not as optimistically starting over.

[Ramblin]

... in response to Yes and..., posted by thesearch on Dec 5, 2001

Hey Thesearch,
I just want to encourage you to think positive and remember that even though it is a lot of time and money and heartache and grief over the bad ones, it will all be worth it when you finally find a good one.  They are out there and if you keep up the search, you will find one that is the best for you.

[thesearch]

... in response to something to think about, posted by Ramblin on Dec 6, 2001

because you are so correct.

However my experience let me realize that it does take some time to get to know someone. The lady that I was referring to was a very lovely person in so many ways. She was honest, sweet, fun to be around and was a perfect match for me physically - but she was screwed up in the head - and she hid it quite well. Seh was a time bomb waiting to go off.

But, as you said, it only takes one to find happiness and a person will not find it fretting about the past. Thanks for taking the time to remind me.

Right now, I am just less attached to it all - with a will just see what happens attitude.

[Zink]

... in response to Love is........, posted by Del on Dec 5, 2001

I just woke up in bed with the one person who I know really loves me. Well maybe person is the wrong word. She's an 8 year old cocker spaniel cross.

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: Love is........, posted by Zink on Dec 5, 2001

I also have a cocker spaniel she is a one-man dog.  She even acts like a Lady and looks exactly like the dog in Lady and the tramp.  I can stretch in bed in the morning and she comes and gives me a hug.  Your right she would be hard to top…