Tipping and Wages in the FSU . . .

[LP]

... in response to Geez......, posted by DE on Nov 18, 2001

....At times you make so much sense, I may have to rethink
my position about you folks up there in Sac. lol..Clearly not "buick" thinking. Well said.

[Richard]

... in response to Re: Bullpoop...alot depends on where  yo..., posted by wsbill on Nov 18, 2001

I think you took the comment about this endeavor not being for the underfunded too literaly.  While you may not have to be super rich or just rich to do this, you certainly do have to be able to afford this properly.  I have a friend who would definately qualify as unfunded (yes, unfunded, not underfunded) who thinks I'm crazy for wanting to take the time to do this right.  He thinks I'm crazy for having invested in a second trip and does not understand why I see the need for additional trips to make sure I have a good relationship before brining someone over.

[DE]

... in response to Let's Understand Tipping, posted by Jimmy on Nov 18, 2001

.

[LP]

... in response to Tipping and Wages in the FSU . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 18, 2001

...about tipping Danny. It's about giving without expectation of receiving anything. When you tip you're paying for a service, I'm arguing that helping people who live in a place where they need it, and expecting nothing in return other than the good feeling one get's (a bargain IMHO), has little to do with scammers. The old lady selling smokes on the corner, the cab drivers, the university students working as wait staff (or helping us), all these people aren't MOB scammers.

As for the real scammers, it seems everyone blames the bad guys. If you get scammed, it's usually because *you* did something wrong. In my LEO days, I was always amazed at how little "victim responsibilty" was taken in any kind of con game.

Over and over again, some of these guys harp about money. Is she asking for it? Do she have it? What will I get outta it? Should I pry loose a few bucks if she's not "the one"?? Who cares?? If you're gonna worry about money, better do it *after* she gets here, because thats when she'll tag you good.

At least Quasimoto has a kind heart, many of the rest seem to be as cheap as they come. If you don't have the cash, stay out. If you have enough to travel there, you have enough to help a few unfortunate folks with what amounts to peanuts for you, but much to them. Doesn't our respect for these people/culture/situation extend *beyond* the individual women we're dealing with?

Helping them out changes nothing in the big scheme of things but helps everyone, icluding the person giving, on an individual level.
*Thats* what I'm "buying", and a good deal it is for all involved.

Like I said, tightwads.

[DE]

... in response to It isn't only...., posted by LP on Nov 18, 2001

and why I enjoy reading some of your posts.  But, just because I may tip a waiter or waitress over there $2 and you tip them $20, doesn't mean I have an expectation of getting someting in return for it.  And quite frankly, it doesn't make me feel better as a person to give them 20 instead of 2 or 10 instead of 5.  It's about giving without the expectation of return and most of the time a compensation for service that is viewed above the norm.  The original post had to do with paying $5 for translating.  Hey, pay what you want, you can get excellent tranlation for more than $5/hr. and you can get excellent translation for less than $5/hr.  The fact you pay less than $5/hr doesn't make you a cheap bastard, just as it doesn't mean you have more money than brains if you pay more. PERIOD.

[LP]

... in response to Now this, I do agree with...., posted by DE on Nov 18, 2001

[LP]

... in response to Fair nuff.....n/t, posted by LP on Nov 18, 2001

....Sure, you can get the same service for less than a certain amount as your example for translating states, but you're looking at the value of the service. You won't get better translation if you pay more, but the difference will effect *them* more and thats the point I was trying to make.

You look at it as what value you get for the service your paying for. I'm talkin about adding some to it for pure charitable reasons, for nothing at all other than to help them out. (The babuska selling smokes, for example, provides little in the way of service.)

If $2 does it, I envy you. I'm afraid my soul requires a larger donation because I owe so much on it. :-)

[DE]

... in response to Then again...., posted by LP on Nov 18, 2001

I do smoke and I DO typically purchase my smokes from the ladies sitting out in the cold rather than the big kiosks.  I usually tell them to keep the change (not the bills though).  I certainly try to support those that are trying to do something to make a living, than those that have the finances behind them to operate the large stores and restruants.  I agree also that tipping the waitress goes an extremly long way towards showing gratitude.  A couple of examples of this was

1)when I was in Kharkov, I really like going to the Blues Cafe for dinner.  My first evening there, I tipped the waitress 10 Grevina (slightly less than $2).  When I returned the next evening and sat in a different location, she immeadiately (out running the other waitresses) came to my table to wait on me.  Again I tipped her 10 Grivina.  The third night, I told her I would be bringing a date with me on the forth night.  She asked me which table I would like.  I pointed to a table and sure enough, on the forth night the table was reserved with a sign, it had a tall candle on it burning (only one on any of the tables) and we had the only table with linen knapkins and a linen table cloth!  She tried to make it as romantic as possible.  She asked if it was to bright in there.  I said a little.  Before you knew, she had walked over to the dimmer switch, without even so much as checking with any of the other patrons and dimmed the lights WAY down.  Everyone else was looking around at us and I can only imagine what they were saying or thinking.  Yes, I did even tip her more that night (although I will confess it wasn't $20).

2)Another experience was when I went to the Steak House in Kiev.  I took two ladies with me and we had great steak dinners, drank several bottles of champagne and was still having a good time long after all the other clients had left.  In fact, it was just the owner left and us as he had sent all the watiers and waitresses home.  When the bill came, I paid it and left an extra $15.  As we were leaving, the owner came running after me saying I forgot my change!  I told him it was my way of thanking him for allowing us to enjoy our evening way after he would have normally closed and never attempting to make us feel as if we had to leave.

Which I guess in our fundalmental beliefs, do make us closer together in being chatitable.  I also make it a habit to give away all my change (and you end up accumating quite a lot of change) to the old ladies looking for handouts near the subway entrances on my last day.  No, I don't give them the dollars or Ukrainain bills, so if this makes me a cheap skate, than a cheap skate I am and you can now in all future threads refer to me as such:).

[LP]

... in response to Re: Then again...., posted by DE on Nov 18, 2001

....I guess I got you all wrong. It isn't the amount, it's the principle. It costs you very little yet it makes a difference in their lives.

Nothing cheap about that.....