Spanish Vocabulary Question...

[yc]

Hey guys,

Got a question for you all, especially those fluent in spanish and/or some other language.  I myself do not speak the spanish language.  I can read is some.  I am learning it though.  I have been actively learning it off and on for the past few years.  As have been stated on numerous occasions, it is something a gringo should seriously consider learning if he is to go fishing south.  Spanish would be my third language.  I have or should say had a partial command of german.  However, that ability has dwindled over the years from lack of use.

I once heard or read somewhere that the english vocabulary has about 300,000 words.  I am not sure if that estimate includes the different variations of each word.  Some calculate that taking all of the different word variations into consideration would put the english vocabulary somewhere between 800,000 to 900,000 words.  Supposedly, the average person actively uses only about 150 words(that is root or base words).  Now when the different variations of those 150 root or base words comes into play that person's vocabulary becomes something on the order of about 20,000 words.  A large portion of those words are dormant(not used).

Now here is my question.  Taking into consideration what I just stated above and applying it to spanish and working under the assumption that spanish vacabulary is no where near the size of the english vocabulary.  Spanish is estimate to have about a 100,000 words.  Is it possible(or realistic) for one to just concentrate on learning the most commonly use words in the spanish language, then learn the most used variations of those words to become quickly fluent or at least semi-fluent???  I am talking just basic fluency.  The general semantics of the spanish language does not appear very difficult, at least at my stage of learning.  I understand that language is a fluidic.  It is constantly evolving.  Language also has its idiosyncrasies.  Words go out of use and new words come into use.  Some words are even borrowed from other languages.  Then there are various dialects and slangs(which just like english I am sure spanish has in abundance).  Even ones educational and professional background plays a role in a person's vocabulary.  But this question is in exclusion of most of those factors.  I am talking about how to gain basic fluency quickly.

Looking for input.

yc

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by yc on Oct 26, 2004

When I started corresponding and chatting with my now wife, I knew absolutely no Spanish and she knew no English. For a long time we communicated completely in Spanish - I learned fairly fast since I was previously fluent in French (although French does not help as much as you might think).  

Here is what I did. I made a list of the most common words that would be needed on a regular basis - prepositions, verbs (with only present, future and preterite conjugations), adverbs, adjectives, some nouns but most of those are easy to pick up. I used the list constantly when I wrote to her and periodically I would make a new list dropping the words I no longer needed on a list because I  had memorized them and adding other ones. Eventually I didn't need the list at all.

For a long time I communicated entirely in the present tense - sure I sounded like a 4 year old - but I was able to get my point across as I expanded my vocabulary. It also helped that most of our communication was in writing - in fact I couldn't pronounce a lot of the words I could write. Later when we were together I worked on oral communication. I also listened to Spanish radio stations a lot and that helped my pronounciation. I also studied some basic grammar - learning enough grammar for each stage of my progress. Don't get too hung up on grammar - that's my wife's problem in learning English - it's better to get out there and do it than worry about your grammar.

[kented]

... in response to Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by utopiacowboy on Oct 27, 2004

I also spoke French fluently before I spoke a word of Spanish.  I found the major help was that it was much easier to start thinking in Spanish since I had learned to do that in French.

Does your wife go to school for English?  How long has she been here and what is her level?  (what classes does she take in English?)

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by kented on Oct 28, 2004

Yes, knowing another language other than one's native language does help in a sort of general way. My wife can understand Italian and Portugese well enough to understand the gist of what they are saying but when it comes to French the differences are just too great. Whenever I don't know a word in Spanish and think of the word in French, invariably the word is not even close to the Spanish word. Even when they are the same, French pronunciation is considerably different. In many ways I wish she did speak French - it's a beautiful language.

For the past 6 months, she has been going to two different classes, one at the local library three nights a week for 2 hours a session and twice a week in the mornings, again for 2 hour sessions - a total of 10 hours a week. Her understanding is improving but she is not in an English speaking millieu enough. The kids are immersed in an English speaking environment all day while she isn't. I don't think she will really master English until she starts working and is forced to communicate in English.

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question...., posted by utopiacowboy on Oct 28, 2004

There are a lot of parallels in our relationships except that my wife isnm't here yet and I can only guess how she will react.  I know that studying English in CR didn't work becasue there was no sence of urgency and she was pulled in too many directions.  (parent /daugher / wife).

My wife will take community college courses.  I have taught the beginning course three times so I will know exactly what she is learning and reinforce it by practicing at home.  I spent seven months immersed in CR and I think she understands the necessity of learning English.  

I will try and create an English speaking milieu but who knwos if it will work.  I love to speak Spanish but I don't need any more practice.  

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Quest..., posted by kented on Oct 29, 2004

My wife understands the necessity of learning Spanish - when her children are with other kids she can't understand what they are saying. She knows that in order to get a suitable job, she has to learn English. The problem is, my Spanish is so good and we have developed the habit of speaking Spanish to each other, it is almost unnatural to be speaking English with her at this point. I told her this morning that if it wasn't for the fact that she needs to learn English, I would just continue speaking Spanish to her the rest of my life. She doesn't have any friends who do not speak Spanish - in fact sometimes I joke that she needs a lover who only speaks English! (That is my task now - to be that English-only lover). I am sure with time and enough classes, she will eventually master English - it is going to take years though. In every other way she has adjusted to life here very well and she is very happy so I am not real worried about this.

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by yc on Oct 26, 2004

The most commonly used words are also usually the most irregular words.  That means they will be the most difficult to learn.  You basically have to memorize them like math tables.

For example:

A common verb:

ir - to go
voy - I go
vas - you go
iras - you will go
vayas - you may go

A less common verb:

tirar - to throw
tiro - I throw
tiras - you throw
tiraras - you will throw
tires - you may throw

The conjugation of "ir" jumps around.  The conjugation of "tirar" is regular.  "ir" gets used much more than "tirar".

Once you master the common verbs and nouns it's pretty much downhill.  But mastering the common verbs and nouns IS the hard part.

Reminds me of a joke I heard once:

I'll tell you how to make a million dollars.  First, you get nine hundred thousand, then....

Steve

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by yc on Oct 26, 2004

My 2 cents are as follows.

Much more than here in the US, the way you speak is very important in LA as an indicator of your social class and level of education.  If you limit your vocabulary to the most commonly used words, by definition you will be speaking colloquial Spanish everywhere all the time, even when colloquial Spanish is inappropriate to the situation.  Such a strategy will make you appear to be a low class idiot to middle class women.

Being able to conjugate verbs correctly, use the correct tense and mood (ie the subjunctive) of a verb, use the best word for the context, use the proper saluations, etc. will go a very long way in impressing a middle class woman, and especially her family.  All parents want their daughters to marry up, that means in terms of social class as well as materially.

Ebonics, drawls, slang, etc. are only cute here in the US.  So learn Spanish to the very best of your ability.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by Brazilophile on Oct 27, 2004

Any latina that I ever met, dated, or married did not expect me to be gramatically perfect with Spanish, understanding that it is not our (gringos) first language. They all appreciate any effort you make to speak it, no matter how broken. Learn Spanish to help you communicate and to show respect to her culture, not to try to prove any particular social status.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by Red Clay on Oct 27, 2004

When you do not speak Spanish well because you are still learning the language, everyone will cut you a lot of slack.  Yes, they will be very appreciative of your efforts to speak their language.  

A point will be reached when you may feel you speak Spanish adequately enough, even though it is still not very good, and you cut back your efforts to improve your Spanish.  If, at that point, your novia and her family are expecting you to continue improving your Spanish but do not see a great effort to do so, you may see a negative change in the level of their appreciation of your Spanish ability.

As anecdotal evidence, I offer some posts from this very list where guys became disenchanted with their novias and esposas because they stopped trying to improve their English when it was still poor.  I remember one thread where the AM felt that her hanging out with groups that were not integrating themselves into US culture, by staying in all Spanish enclaves, was a big reason for her not learning English very fast or very well.  Latins have a similar reaction to us with Spanish.

[Pete E]

... in response to Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by yc on Oct 26, 2004

I have lived in Cali 12 months and my spanish is still pretty minimal.I need to work on it.
My most glaring definciency is to not understand some pretty common words.So my approach is at least understand the most common words.I have a book,1000 most common spanish words.There are probably 200 that are real common.I might know 150.I need to first at least understand the most common words.My  girlfriend helps aloy here.She speaks no english but is very helpfull in try ing to speak spanish,will explain a word I don't understand,that works some times.otherwise I just look it up.

Pete

[papi]

... in response to Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by Pete E on Oct 27, 2004

yes, but is she still explaining those "palabras" during your "amor" sessions??

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question..., posted by papi on Oct 27, 2004

No,I cured her of that,no spanish lessons in the middle of amor.

pete

[papi]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Question...., posted by Pete E on Oct 27, 2004

Bueno, no mas "Idioma interruptess"

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Spanish Vocabulary Quest..., posted by papi on Oct 27, 2004

Right,unless she wants to see a gringo go loco again.

Pete