The Lesson

[Bueller]

Those of you who read my recent trip report about Brazil heard me mention my "Próxima!" philosophy: if she's not eager and enthusiastic about you, move on. Several years ago when this whole idea was new to me, I asked a friend of mine who met his Peruvian wife through Cherry Blossoms to tell me about the process and what is necessary. The first thing he said was, "For this to work, you (plural) have to be motivated, motivated, motivated." In other words, it's so complicated and expensive that your hearts really have to be in it, it can't just be a lark you set out on after reading an ad in a magazine somewhere. I have long maintained that building a successful marriage with someone from a foreign culture is hard enough, the one part that should be easy is finding willing, eager women who want to meet you and spend time with you when you're in-country. If you feel like you have to beg, plead, wait and negotiate to get a woman to make time for you, she's definitely not the right woman for you, regardless of how attractive you find her.

 I directed a friend over to read Pete's story, because he's pursuing a woman whom he feels he has to beg, plead, wait and negotiate with to get her attention. He wrote back and said, "I probably should move on before I wind up in Pete's situation." I said, "What do you mean, 'probably'?". Now his situation is not exactly like Pete's, of course, because Rocio did seem to show some interest up to a certain point. But as I see it, the most important lesson to be drawn from all this is what Pete said:

 She either loves you, or she doesn't.

 You would think, I would think, Pete obviously thought, that with Pete being a nice generous guy with lots of love and a shot at the American Dream to offer, and with Rocio being ignored at the agency because she was somewhat older and a single mom, that she would respond by either loving him or by turning him down. Instead, what Pete got in return for four years and $100,000 (or was it $300,000?-- maybe that was a typo) was conspicuous disrespect, emotional and sexual frigidity, and possibly infidelity as well-- actually the first two are just other forms of infidelity. My point here is not to throw a pity party for Pete, but to point out that if that didn't work for Pete, it won't work for anybody:

 She either loves you, or she doesn't.

 Simple, as immutable as the law of gravity, and it supersedes all other factors.

 She either loves you, or she doesn't.

 After all, we all know that Latinas know how to let you know when they love you, right? If that's not there, don't try to row against the tide; no matter how "hot" she is, if she isn't hot for you, move on. Having her on board and enthusiastic (enthusiastic for you personally, not for the green card) is not everything, by any means, but it is indispensable. If she's not, "Próxima!" and find someone who is.

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to The Lesson, posted by Bueller on Oct 23, 2003

Bueller, you are so right - except that I have learned that some latinas, particularly the young ones, will fall in and out of love in a heartbeat.  Guys should really get to know their lady over some time, which is not always the case with these types of courtships (especially since many ladies seem to want a fairly strong commitment to something permanent fairly quickly or they will move on.)  Plus, we gringos sometimes misread the signals and signs that latin women often show even to men that they are not completely crazy about - the PDA's, the touching and kissing, not to mention the sex.  Not something you get from most AW, and it can be pretty intoxicating.

Case in point - until recently I was dating a young lady from Belo Horizonte, Brazil who I met here in the US.  After the 2nd date (!) she was telling me she loved me.  Having just divorced, I am not looking to jump right into a serious relationship, and once she realized this I noticed a very different attitude from her towards me.  She cooled down seemingly overnight!

I am just reminding guys to take their time, date a lot of women, and be selective.

[Pete E]

... in response to The Lesson, posted by Bueller on Oct 23, 2003

She loves you or she doesn't.Don't expect her to develop love for you.Could happen,don't count on it.
That and the character of the girl are the main things.I guess that was the main message I wanted to get across.
Make damn sure she loves you.Don't even think of proceeding without it.Unless of course its just a casual relationship.It could be a relationship for mutual purposes,could include sex.
I don't think there is anything wrong with my wife that would have been an unfixable problem except she doesn't love me,never did.Without that you have nothing,with it everything is fixable.Proceed without it,especially if you really love her,you buy one huge heartache and hassle.
Reminds me of a saying."some peoples purpose is to serve as a bad example."

Pete

[Ralph]

... in response to The Lesson, posted by Bueller on Oct 23, 2003

My number one criteria for choosing a woman is that she has to be crazy about me. Latinas wear their hearts on their sleeves.
If you need to ask or think about if she loves you. . . . . .she doesn't.

I remember when Pete first posted about having doubts on LWL.
Myself and the Latinas on the list said if a Latina really loves you, you will never want for sex and affection.

In both of my LTRs with Dominicanas, even if we go to bed pissed at eachother, sometime during the night she will start cuddling, spooning or darn near rape me.

Latinas and Dominicanas in particular never use sex as a weapon. They do not believe in "punishing" themselves just because they are mad at you.

[lswote]

... in response to bingo, posted by Ralph on Oct 23, 2003

Boy not wanting for sex with a Latina sure seems true to me.  I never thought I would wish someone I loved would back down on their sexual appetite, but I wish my Latina wife would for awhile. She has gotten very large in her pregnancy, she has gained 23 pounds in 5 months and almost all of it is in her belly.  It looks like a ripe watermelon and she has 4 months to go.  While I love me wife very much, at this time I just am not very turned on by her, but that doesn't stop her from initiating sex frequently.  And I just am unwilling to come out and say "honey, I am not turned on by you right now".  I just can't do it.  So I respond to her, but honestly I wish we could take a break until after the baby was born as I am not really interested.  But my first wife, an American, never seemed that interested in sex, but rather I felt like she was accomodating me.  A Latina that loves you is a very interested sexual partner.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: bingo, posted by lswote on Oct 23, 2003

Things could be worse;-) I have to admit that my first wife who was an AW also was at least as interested as I was in sex. Of course we were both pretty young at the time.

When I first moved down to the DR we had an adjustment period. With just traveling there on vacation etc, partying, dancing, drinking and tons of sex was the norm. Once we moved in together, she was amazed that I don't drink beer in the house, and only when we go out for the most part. Also with having to work, and actually having to wake up sort of early, we had to lighten up a bit in the sex department. It took a lot to explain to her why!

[DOMINGUIN]

... in response to Re: bingo, posted by lswote on Oct 23, 2003

B:

I remember that when I was 18,young and crazy enough to have unprotected sex, my high school girlfriend told that she was "late", it was the longest 9 days of my life!  

And, now you can have a ton of sex with a willing woman without worrying about an unwanted pregnancy!

Don't you get it, she still wants to feel that she is desirable!

Stop "b******g, buy some Viagra, close your eyes, suck it up, be a man and win one for the Gipper...  (or two or three, or 10 or 15 or many it takes!)

Because if you don't "come" through, she won't ever forget it.

Sorry, I couldn't resist and "I just don't feel your pain..."

D

[lswote]

... in response to Re: Re: bingo, posted by DOMINGUIN on Oct 23, 2003

DOM, I think desire and performance are two different things and as far as I know Viagra doesn't help with desire, just performance.  My performance is fine.  Just not a lot of desire.

[littlebhuddha]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: bingo, posted by lswote on Oct 23, 2003

What ever you do, DO NOT tell her that you just aren't attracted to her while she is pregrant. If that's what you want to do, just blow your brains out. Its quicker and much less painful than what you will experience by telling the truth. I strongly suggest you find a way to "endure" for a few more months. Any man that has children has felt the same way about their pregnant wives. The ones still married are the ones that kept their mouths shut and their wives happy.

[DOMINGUIN]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: bingo, posted by lswote on Oct 23, 2003

B.

Sometimes sex is a sacrificial act, now you have decent take on what a lot of women must feel.  

Your wife could just have easily died on you a few motnhs ago and you would have been overcome by grief. But, she is alive and you're a happier man since you got married, you have life coming into the world that was made by you. Now be grateful, count your blessings, and "do what you gotta do."

Nuff said.

D

[littlebhuddha]

... in response to The Lesson, posted by Bueller on Oct 23, 2003

You are so right! I have been following Pete's story with great interest and comparing it to what I am going through myself. I am getting married in Cali in December to a woman that I spent about a week with last month. In a lot of ways my situation is similar to Pete's. The BIG difference is my fiance. She is very excited about being married to me. We spend at least an hour on the phone every day. I get a wake up call every morning and she calls me at work to say she loves me. Every evening we are on the phone for an hour or more. Reading Pete's story has scared me sometomes but it also reassures me that there are huge differences between his wife and my fiance. The biggest difference is "Proxima!" I never feel short-changed about the attention I get from her. We are both alike in the fact that we enjoy showering each other with attention. Your words of advice are gold. If you can't feel the love it ain't there!