I've seen this woman a lot!

[DavidMN]

About a year ago when I first started reading about Colombia and becoming interested in Latin America I came across the LatinEuro website while performing an English language search on "culture, colombia, travel, etc."  Naturally, I was curious because I had no previous knowledge of the foreign introduction services.  So I glanced at a few of the pictures and ordered a single address for a woman who's a dentist in Bogotá, age 32.

Since that time I'm about a year older and much wiser so maybe it bears repeating for the "new comers" that you can carry on a pen-pal relationship for a long time, but you better get your butt down their and see if the relationship and the woman are what you are expecting.  Nothing ever happened except a few e-mail exchanges with the Srta. but I have since seen her picture on:

Match.com Español (same as the LatinEuro photo...very attractive I think, classic Latina good lucks, but it might be old)

Latin American Introductions (perhaps more recent photo, dark hair and dark photo, looks like a fair amount of weight gain).

Latin Life Mates (photo might be one of those that was "shared" when the agency/tour owners went their separate ways).

Patrick's website (maybe the most recent photo, hair is nearly blond and appears to have lost weight).

I don't think this is a case of a woman having her photo unknowingly bought and sold because I don't believe any of the above firms do that.  It's just buyer beware...because you may be looking at a photo that is very different than the real thing (and in this case, some of the sites list her as single, some as divorced, some with English skills, some without, etc). It's not my intent to malign this woman, for all I know she has requested that her old photos be removed and/or her profile updated and the business owners are slow to get around to it.

David

[Patrick]

... in response to I've seen this woman a lot!, posted by DavidMN on Jan 13, 2003

I'd agree with Mark below that you shouldn't write her off for this.  She may just be trying to maximize her chances of finding the right man.  Some of the listings may also be without her knowledge.  We're approached quite often by various agencies or brokers trying to sell portfolios of women's profiles and photos.  I'm sure many of the sites do buy these.

You shouldn't try to take correspondance too far either.  I'd always recommend setting a date for a visit before you even send a first letter and if you haven't found anything to indicate that you're incompatible in a period of a few months, go to visit.  It's always a good idea to be in touch with more than one woman too and have a backup plan in case things don't work out in person with the main woman. I took the visit one at a time approach myself, but I didn't mind making the trips even when I found out the woman wasn't right for me because I enjoyed them as vacations.  If you're sole purpose in traveling is to find Miss Right, then it's way better to visit several when you go.

Same thing for the women.  Only a small minority of men who write to ladies ever end up making a trip to meet them, so if the women want to succeed, they should try to establish contact with as many men as they can.  If a woman spends a year of her time and energy with one guy who nevers comes to meet her, it can make her pretty hesitant about starting anything with another man who she thinks may not be serious enough to ever travel.  Until you meet in person, you should always keep things fairly casual and expect her to be communicating with other men as well.  I don't know about other sites, but at ours, only about 5-7% of the ladies end up getting engaged or married during the time their ad runs.  It's not easy for them either.

My wife was in contact with a guy for almost a year who ended things with her after finding out that she had received letters from over 300 men (she was published in the TLC catalog).  I went to visit her after 3 months of letters and calls and we ended up marrying.

One other thing-  My wife had no intention of joining any agencies.  She was invited to one of the TLC parties by a friend and they took her photo and info at the door and then published her in one of their quarterly releases.  Her interest grew as she started receiving letters though and things just started for there.  She also ended up having another ad published by an outfit called #1 Worldclass.  She had no idea how they got her information and I think what happened was that a TLC employee got a hold of a portfolio and started selling it.  Someone else she knew who was killed in an auto accident had her ad published by the same site more than a year after she died.

[markxport]

... in response to I've seen this woman a lot!, posted by DavidMN on Jan 13, 2003

Hello David,

I know who your talking about and wouldn't take multiple listings as a red flag.  After all, how many guys visit multiple agencies in Cali on a single trip.  Just like the guys, I think she is trying to improve her odds of finding the right guy.

Take care,

Mark

[NW Jim]

... in response to I've seen this woman a lot!, posted by DavidMN on Jan 13, 2003

Yes, I've also noticed "S" on lots of site, but each seems to be a different picture so it may be that she has signed up with lots of agencies to increase her chances. It's not an automatic red flag, perhaps she's picky or is just not getting a lot of responses.

Remember some of the 30+ yr old professional women in Colombia face the same problems of finding a suitable man from the same socio-economic class or better as professional AW do.

A guy has to be very careful with these kind of women, what are their expectations? Could she handle the loss of social status if she came to this country and had to work as a dental hygienist or faced several more years of very expensive schooling. Can you afford to put her through dental school? I automatically scratch doctors, lawyers, dentists and models from consideration.

[DavidMN]

... in response to Re: I've seen this woman a lot!  You're ..., posted by NW Jim on Jan 13, 2003

NW Jim - Yep, I think we're talking about the same person.

Good points on some of the professions that might be hard to "replicate" in the US, although the poster below said perhaps with dentists it's not insurmountable.  Lawyers might not be too much of a stretch either, IF the person was willing to work as a paralegal here.  I think paralegals can make pretty good money?  As for becoming a bar-accepted US atty - that might be like starting over since I believe the Colombian legal system is based on the Napoleonic code. No quarrel with you on models, though - probably very high maintenance and a temptation to other males wherever they are!  And physicians/surgeons...well, I suppose it's possible but if both parties are reasonably young and want to start a family, I've got to think the schooling and residency requirements in the US would take an awful lot of time.

[Patrick]

... in response to Re:  I've seen this woman a lot!  You're..., posted by DavidMN on Jan 14, 2003

A couple we're friends with are going through the process of getting the woman established as a doctor here right now.  She's been here for about five years and is in the second year of a residency.  It certainly wasn't easy though and it took her 3 years just to pass the exams to be elligible for a residency.  They also had to take her search for a residency nation-wide and ended up moving to Texas.  The man now commutes from Texas to San Diego every week to run his business. He plans to be a stay at home father after she finishes her residency and starts having babies.

I think this woman is pretty exceptional and extremely dedicated and I suspect some others would not have what it takes to get established here.  It can be done though.  Just be sure of the woman's drive to succeed if you go this route and be prepared to make sacrifices to make it work.  It's definitely not for everybody.

[Pescador]

... in response to Re: Re:  I've seen this woman a lot!  Yo..., posted by Patrick on Jan 14, 2003

I met a girl from Bogota that is on her first year of medicine as a Doctor. She says she has friends that came to the US from Colombia and became resident Doctors. She seems to have the opinion it is just passing an exam. I dont have much experience in the medical field,but I thought her expectations were pretty high and would have to go to do more studying or training. Thanks for the post Patrick, I am going to pass that on to her.

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  I've seen this woman a lot!..., posted by Pescador on Jan 14, 2003

That was the toughest part for our friend.  She was studying full time for almost three years to pass it and I believe she failed the first two times she tried.  Then getting a residency was tough too.  There was basically no hope of getting a residency if she only searched locally.

[wizard]

... in response to Passing the exam is a very hard thing to..., posted by Patrick on Jan 14, 2003

Medicine, much like the law, is still localized and controlled by each state... Once a physician graduates from medical school, whether in this country or abroad, they must pass the medical boards for the state in which they wish to practice medicine... Some states are easier than others, but the basic content of the exams is the same... The are a b!tch to pass, kinda like the bar exams in the legal profession or the series 7 for stock brokers... The difference is that medical facilities in some states will not even consider foreign medical graduates, while other states (hard up for doctors) will jump at the chance to have any type of physician apply/take the boards... Some states will not even recognize the medical degrees from certain countries, even from accredited med schools...

Usually, once the state medical boards are passed, the newly legal doctor can apply to hospitals for an internship, which lasts between 1 - 3 years, depending on the physician's specialty... Smaller hospitals in rural areas are the best places for a foreign medical grad to get an internship...  

Once the internship is complete, physicians usually opt for a residency in a specific area of medicine, like OBGYN, pulminary, orthopedic, surgery, etc... The residency usually lasts, again, from 1 - 3 years depending on the specialty... Add the time in med school and you have a 10 year timeline, start to finish, until you can legally "hang out a shingle" and practice medicine...

Technically, the medical boards can be taken anytime after completing med school and before the end of the residency... There is a grace period after completion of residency and once the doctor begins to practice... Things are a little tighter for a foreign medical grad...  

If a doctor passes the boards in one state, they do their  internship/residency and practice medicine in that state... If they want to practice medicine in another state, they must pass the boards in the new state too...

The medical profession USED to be a cash-cow livelyhood... Today, with HMO's, PPO's, "fixed fee" pressures from insurance companies, medical malpractice insurance, continuing education, overhead, etc., the medical profession is not what it USED to be...  I have friends/family that have stopped practicing medicine because they can make MORE money in other ventures without all the headaches...

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but the facts are the facts...

wizard

[JSlo]

... in response to Medical Boards, posted by wizard on Jan 14, 2003

There is a program in Florida that allows MD's from foreign countries to work in the nursing profession while pursuing their dream of practicing medicine. I do recall quite a bit of time being involved when going that route. If anyone is interested, I'm sure I can find the specifics. However, it is not an easy task nor is it for the faint of heart. There are ob-gyn doctors leaving the state because of obscene malpractice insurance premiums. One really has to investigate thoroughly whether to pursue being a MD these days.

[wizard]

... in response to Re: Medical Boards, posted by JSlo on Jan 14, 2003

You know, being a MD used to be a noble profession... One that required dedication, education, integrity and a genuine care for the human species... Today it has been reduced to cookie-cutter medicine performed in the most impersonal manner... Between the medical mega-corps, insurance companies and the lawyers, they have all sucked the life out of the medical profession... At this point, why would anyone want to spend 10 years of their lives dedicated to learning a profession that has a lower earning potential than a real estate agent??? It has gotten so bad in some states, Florida is one, but West Virginia comes to mind, that the are NO practicing OBGYN doctors in over half the state... Pregnant women have to leave the state to get health care, or turn to a mid-wife... What's wrong with this picture!!! Some rural areas of the country HAVE to recruit physicians, guarantee a job/salary/housing and even give them signing bonuses to sign a 2 year contract... Absurd... But these are the places where the tier 1 physicians do not want to go...

Nurses are leaving the profession in hoards... That's why private US nurse recruiting firms are stealing nurses from South Africa and the Phillipines by offering them twice what they are making there, sponsor their work visas and offer them contracts... For the nurses it's a no-brainer... They get a free ticket to the US!!!

Ok, I'll climb down off my soap box... Whew...

wizard

[Pescador]

... in response to Rant II..., posted by wizard on Jan 14, 2003

thanks Wizard for the info. Sounds like this girl has her work cut out for her, more than she anticipated I bet. Where did you learn all your info, is there some place(website?) I could get more info for her? thanks and I agree insurance is making things in medicine outrageous.

[wizard]

... in response to Re: Rant II..., posted by Pescador on Jan 15, 2003

Hey Fisherman...

Everyone in my family, parents and all 4 siblings are physicians... Being the youngest of 5, I saw the lifestyle that my family endured in the name of medicine... Long hours, little or no family life and mucho dedication... I chose another profession to the chagrin of my parents... I did not want the lifestyle imposed by the profession... I am sure glad I didn't do it, especially now that the screws have been clamped down on the medical profession as a whole...

One of my brothers decided late in life to be a doctor... He had a MS in chemistry, working for the government when he decided to go to med school... At his age, 32, he couldn't get into a med school in the US and wound up going to the Univeridad de Guadalajara... He fought like hell to get an intership/residency in the US, even though his was a US citizen... He finally found a program in a rural hospital that would take him... He is still living in "podunk" today...

I have a friend that gave up his medical practice for the reasons I quoted in my previous post... While practicing medicine, he dabbled in real estate... He realized that he could make more money with much less hassle speculating in real estate... Odd, but true...

I don't know of a specific website related to foreign medical graduates looking to practice in this country... Sorry...

wizard

[Pescador]

... in response to Re: Re: Rant II..., posted by wizard on Jan 15, 2003

Hey Wizard,
Thanks for the info, I went ahead and told that gal and she had already been doing some of her own research. She has all the books on the USMEL and figures it will take her two years. Shes a pretty dertermined lady. Shes also husband hunting for a US guy to support her in this endeavor.

[Golden]

... in response to Re: I've seen this woman a lot!  You're ..., posted by NW Jim on Jan 13, 2003

I wouldnt scratch 'em off the list to fast!...ha ha ha...or I would never have met my wife who is a dentist.  It is a little tough on them though when they have to work as an assistant, I agree with you on that. ( or hygienist, depending on what state they live in and after that take the national and state boards i.e. Florida) They go to school for a long time and it is hard on them to have to suck it up and work for someone else, while knowing they can do the same thing they do, or better. My wife didnt like it. I told her to use that energy and focus it on setting a goal of going to school here and get her dental license. Also, the good thing is that there are about dozen schools that will give a foreign dentist advance standing, so they only have to go the last two years, which is the clinical studies. I hope with her being a minority student she can get a scholarship or financial help. Even if they don't I'll scrap and save and put her through....it will pay off later I'm sure, and besides it's what she enjoys doing...... A bored latina sitting at home, not working, that isnt good thing. Not for me it wasn't. They get homesick, bored, lonely, etc....I made sure I helped my wife find dental job after she got here. She was still learning English,new culture,etc... so she was scared at first....I had to give her a gentle nudge in the right direction....after I helped her fax a few resumes out and she got a job with a dentist office things got much, much better.....then after about 6 months ..I have to laugh, thats when she started getting annoyed at having to be the assistant and at having a boss...and wanted to be the dentist. .......ahhh the American Dream of having your own business.