On a tear!

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by valuedcustomer on Nov 13, 2002


When you ask a woman out to dinner, it's not like buying a service...it's a date and not a contract.  If you pick up the bill at the end of the meal and agree to pay for her gas at her request than it's your decision. If you later discover that she viewed the dinner date as more of an opportunity for a free meal then to get to know you then that's life.  These kind of things happen on both sides of the equation in Cali, dates are not contracts, there's no quid pro quo for a meal.....

El Diablo

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to On a tear!, posted by El Diablo on Nov 13, 2002

[This message has been edited by valuedcustomer]

I agree with what you said as a statement of the general situation, but in this particular fact pattern one could argue that the couple intentionally committed a fraud (lied) in order to get financial gain.  That is, she specifically said her boyfriend was an interpreter (the lie) when she new the man was sincerely looking for a wife.  Fraud for financial gain can be criminally prosecuted and whether you could prosecute this particular case would depend on the particular wording of the State Statute.  I also personally talked to a former agency owner who told me she has bilked guys of thousands of dollars.  Do you think somebody this smooth is going to stop at dinners and gas?  I don't fully understand the psychology of why some people stand up for a con artist.  Maybe its hypnosis or something.  In any case, I think guys should just be aware of this when the agencies say they have your best interest at heart.  You are considered fair game.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by valuedcustomer on Nov 14, 2002

[This message has been edited by El Diablo]

Actually the guy in question has done interpreter work at both Latin Love and Mis Gringuitos so it might not have been an out and out lie.  I certainly wouldn't be happy if my date invited her boyfriend but it's not clear to me that he was anything other than her boy-toy at one time.  On that day maybe he was was just a friend helping her out rather than the greedy novio looking for the big meal payoff...but who knows. Anyway, I used to see the two of them together sometimes.  They met at Latin Love I  believe (where he worked) but from what I could see their relationship was more of convenience than anything serious. The guy is probably 8  to 10 years younger than her.

Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see the big sinister plot. I doubt the free meal would really make that much of a  difference to either one of them. The way I look at it, there's a lot of women in the agencies who never hook up with guys. They go out  on date after date, with the latest gringo passing through. Most of the time, the girl doesn't get hooked up because there are so few guys  and so many women. A smaller percentage of women, the really attractive ones, can be more picky, but the Rubys of Cali have a difficult  time getting engaged because of the law of supply and demand. So I think some of the women learn over time to take what they can get  (opportunity) from the agency game. I'm not saying it's right but I understand the environment that helps create it.

Opportunity can be looked at from different perspectives I think. One Colombian perspective is called the rule of the Papayas. It goes  something like this; 1. Never give anyone a papaya. 2. If you have a papaya you need to hold on to it. 3. If someone offers you a papaya  you need to take it. This rule may not seem particularly moral but once you understand it, dealing with Colombians and opportunistic  Calenas in particular becomes much simpler. The papaya rule does not mean you can steal, if you reach into someone's pocket and take  someone's credit card, this is theft. But if you talk someone into buying you something with your credit card under whatever pretense, this is opportunity, this is taking the papaya that is being offered to you. Anyway it looks to me like you got taken for a papaya or two when
you bought them dinner. These are small time papayas and nothing in my opinion to get overly excited about. Learn the papaya rule and  I think you will have better luck with Colombians in general.

Hell it's happened to me several times and each time I wasn't annoyed with the other person so much as I was surprised how quickly I  had forgotten about the papayas. I think the last time it happened to me I was with Throw's wife and her hot little friend. I was kind of  hoping to hook up with the friend while I was in Cali for a couple of weeks. We all went to the mall and both of them were helping me  pick out shirts. We were having a good time and we went into some women's boutique's also. Anyway, the little friend was trying on all  these skirts and WOW she looked good. She was coming out and smiling at me and asking my opinion and such. Anyway, I broke my  rule and bought one of the dresses for her. She was so happy and promised to wear it that night just for me. Anyway that night came and a whole group of us went out. She had her new dress on but that spark that she had for me just a few hours earlier at the mall was totally  gone. Anyway, I realized that I was a pretty easy mark that day, she turned up the flirtation meter just a smidgen and I bought that dress  for her. Is this gal a bad person? Of course not, she understood the papaya rule whereas I had forgot it. I probably had some expectations when I bought the dress also but the expectations were my mistake not hers.

El Diablo

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to On a tear!, posted by El Diablo on Nov 14, 2002

Ok, you articulate your point well.  But, nothing in your papaya rule or your girlfriend influencing you too buy a dress constitutes fraud so it’s not really relevant to the particular fact pattern of intentionally lying to someone to get financial gain.  However, you may be right about the ambiguity of their relationship which would go to intent and may negate fraud.  In any case, I have long since moved on and just think it’s useful for men going to Cali to know some of the things that can happen.  But, please consider that my novia is from Colombia and as far as I can tell she has exactly the same view on ethics that I do and she never talks about papayas.  Consider the possibility that when you are being told that a different culture does things differently and that’s why you are being stiffed that, in reality, you are having your leg pulled.  I have been all over the world, and my running assumption is that ethics are universal.  If someone is being ethical, they will not do to you what they wouldn't want done to them.  Be careful out there.

 

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by valuedcustomer on Nov 15, 2002

Hold on, I never said I bought the dress for my novia, it was for a woman I barely knew and several years ago.  It's true, if you find a good woman with some class, she won't take advantage of you and you can forget about papayas.  However that doesn't mean the rule does not exist, ask your novia, it's a well known saying in Colombia. I'm not suggesting that everyone follows it but I think it happens a lot more in Colombian culture then in ours.  I'm not basing my observations on a two week vacation either, over the past 3 years I've spent more than eight months living in Cali.    I think most foreigners who spend much time in Colombia begin too to see the papaya rule at play.....

El Diablo

[burbuja2]

... in response to On a tear!, posted by El Diablo on Nov 15, 2002

Will someone please state the Papaya Rule?  Thank you for your support.

[El Diablo]

... in response to I Have a Question, posted by burbuja2 on Nov 15, 2002

It goes something like this; 1. Never give anyone a papaya. 2. If you have a papaya you need to hold on to it. 3. If someone offers you a papaya you need to take it.

[Hiker]

... in response to On a tear!, posted by El Diablo on Nov 13, 2002

I know what you mean.  My first trip down I took a girl to the zoo.  I noticed her feet were bleeding a little.  She explained that the shoes belonged to her sister and were to small.  I had no intentions of seeing her again but I thought it would be a good thing to buy her a pair of shoes.  We left the zoo and went to the mall.  I told her I wanted to get her a pair of shoes.  She got shoes, purse, belt, several blouses and slacks.  The total was just over 300 bucks.  The fact is I could have said whoa anytime.  I didn't.  Now I would not be caught of guard.  To be honest I don't think she was a shark.  She had joined the agency a couple of weeks earlier and lived in a nearby town.  It is possible she didn't understand my intentions.  She didn't take the money out of my wallet and give it to the cashier, I did.

A footnote - This really made me appreciate the girl I ended up with.  The one I am marrying is 13 years older than the first one, she treats my money like it is hers and it is the last dollar to our name.  She asked how much I pay a minute to call her, and then she set a limit on length of a call.  We are getting married and I set up an account here and gave her the atm card.  I put only 100 bucks a month in that account and told her to use it and I didn't need to know what for.  That was four months ago and she is yet to touch a dollar.  She said it is for our honeymoon.  Small things but impressed me a lot.

[Craig]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by Hiker on Nov 13, 2002

You sound like a decent guy and your women sounds like an angel...best wishes Craig

[Hiker]

... in response to Re: Re: On a tear!, posted by Craig on Nov 13, 2002

Thanks a lot Craig!

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by Hiker on Nov 13, 2002

Yes, these small things are often times representative of much larger values.  Thus, while the individual acts may be small, the way a woman respects your assets can tell you a lot about a person.  As El Diablo might say, "The Devil is in the details".

[Margareth Mayor]

... in response to Re: On a tear!, posted by Hiker on Nov 12, 2002

There are NOT smear tactics between LB and LE and both the owners have it very clear.

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to On a tear!, posted by Cali vet on Nov 12, 2002

We have an interesting situation here.  Latin Encounters claims that Latin Best has ringers, and Latin Encounters claims that Latin Best has “shills” claiming that Latin  Encounters has ringers.  Someone isn’t telling the truth.  How can we tell?  

Well, I have checked and both agencies still have the veteran

Ruby Burbano

Latin Encounters code 668387 11-1-507  Records 55-63 of 91

Latin Best  Album 12

Ruby has been getting free drinks and dinners from gringos for years and years.  Although, I can’t verify whether she still has her tall young boyfriend or whether she still looks like her 10 year old pictures.  

The agency who removes her the quickest will be declared the truth teller.  We can all judge the results for ourselves.

Let the contest begin.  

[papa suave]

... in response to Re: TRUTH BY ORDEAL, posted by valuedcustomer on Nov 12, 2002

I don't know that we're supposed to using names, but the girl you mentioned is still using gringos for groceries, drinks, gas in her SUV, whatever she can get from him. Beware this girl!! I was actually scheduled an appointment with her and immediately cancelled upon hearing from a fellow gringo how his date went with her. What's funny is that I know the Luz Amparo is aware of this girl's history yet keeps her on the books. Sounds like a ringer to me...I don't know about whether Margareth is aware but she is now. Let's see what happens.

[AlexG32]

... in response to Re: TRUTH BY ORDEAL, posted by valuedcustomer on Nov 12, 2002

I saw Ruby at Arte de Frances with her boyfriend but this guy was not tall and she still looks the same.