Argentina: been there, done that...

[Bueller]

...and just might go back!

 Argentina was a blast. Normally it is quite expensive to travel there, but right now with the economic crisis they are experiencing and the devalued peso, it is really cheap. And what a beautiful country.

  It's hard to fully enjoy Buenos Aires at the moment because its big-city problems have been amplified by the crisis, and you have to spend every moment on your guard. You can't even hail a taxi off the street, because there have been a number of cases recently of tourists being robbed by taxi drivers. Instead you have to call a taxi company of confidence, and wait for them. Too bad, because it is, or was, a spectacular city.

  I spent most of my visit in Córdoba, about 900 km inland from BA, and absolutely loved it. Of primary interest to this forum, I noticed a far greater number of beautiful women in Córdoba than in BA, and Córdoba doesn't have nearly the urban problems and dangers to worry about. People say Mendoza is a very nice university city with nice and attractive women, but I prefered to stay put in Córdoba instead of jumping from city to city. I walked through downtown Córdoba at 2 or 3AM almost every night and never had a problem, while in BA I felt a bit nervous even in broad daylight.

  I mainly spent my visit just wandering around the city and its parks, shopping for books and dictionaries (so cheap I had to buy a big duffel bag to haul them all home), enjoying the local cuisine (the steaks and pastas are outstanding), attending concerts and cultural events, and wishing I had studied Spanish there instead of in Spain. I also went out to the Sierra de Córdoba, which is quite beautiful. There are dozens of towns spread out along the Sierra, most of which are worth visiting, and I picked La Cumbrecita, which is an hour and a half and US$2 by bus up a dirt road from a village 2 hours from Córdoba. Great place to get away for peace and quiet, fishing, horseback riding, etc.

  Argentines have a reputation of being kind of snotty and aloof by LA standards, not least around Florianópolis, where many come to vacation. In my experience, though, with few exceptions they were quite friendly and hospitable, especially compared to my experience of most Spaniards. I doubt Americans who go to Cancun make the best impression possible either. Are Argentines proud of their country and think it's better than others? Sure, but many people think that way, including yours truly. Several people did mention, though, that they consider Brazilians to be more friendly, happy, and open than Argentines.

  I don't know what it's like to be married to the typical Argentine woman, but from my experience there and from chatting with a number of people, it normally isn't considered proper to just meet them on the street. They tend to walk by you and completely ignore you if you look at them. I did catch a few of them looking at me, as long as I didn't look at them first. Perhaps it's because  I stood out as a foreigner, though I like to imagine it's because of my twin-like resemblance to Brad Pitt :-P . If you are introduced to a woman, it's totally different, especially if you can speak some Spanish. That's not hard to manage, either, especially if you were to spend a few weeks or months there in a language program, just meeting people in general. I went to a "folcloric" concert in a bar and was chatting with the musician, who was headed for Andalucía, after the show. He interrupted me to call to a young lady who was already out the front door, and introduced me to her. She had studied some English --that was the reason he mentioned for introducing us-- and although she hadn't even glanced at me originally, now she was quite friendly. She was very cute and seemed eager to stay and talk to me, but her friend was already outside waiting for her, and since I had plans to go out with new friends the next and final evening, we parted. Oh well. Point is, the musician didn't exactly know me, but being introduced makes all the difference.

  I also met some other women on my own. Some examples: one at a post-9/11 photo exhibit sponsored by the U.S. Embassy at the university, another at a concert, another at an ice cream shop, another at the train stop in BA who invited me to come over to visit her and her friends that night before flying home, plus a couple of pretty college students on the city bus in BA. I chatted with them for about twenty minutes before they got off, and got caught off guard for a second when the first one leaned over and stuck her face in mine, waiting for the customary kiss on the cheek. Hmm, we'd just met, and she was the prettiest girl I'd kissed all month :-). So much for them being cold. That was when it occurred to me that just riding around on city buses isn't a bad way to meet them, as it gives you an excuse to sit and chat with women who aren't used to conversing with strange men on the street.  There were others, shop clerks and the like, who had studied English and were eager to practice with me.  

 An employee of a local bookstore told me he had traveled all over Argentina, other South American countries, and into Central America, and thought the women in Córdoba were the prettiest, as well as being the nicest in Argentina. Local pride, perhaps, but it was hard to argue about them being pretty.

 I would guess that if you married a woman from Córdoba, you could have considerable problems with homesickness. Naturally; in fact, I didn't want to leave, and am entertaining the idea of moving there when my time in Brazil is up. I would highly recommend it as a city to do a language-study program in, though. The hard "sho me shamo" accent prevails in Buenos Aires and the south, and is not nearly as pronounced in Córdoba and the west. Except for their use of "vos sos" instead of "tú eres", the Spanish of Córdoba and Mendoza is a lot closer to what is spoken in other LA countries. As Randy has pointed out, México is a great choice for a study-abroad program, and of course México is a lot closer to the U.S., which is an obvious advantage. There are loads of schools in Ecuador and Guatemala, but you have to stay away from the "Gringo Trail" there to get the most out of the experience. The accent used in Colombia is the clearest and most understandable *anywhere*, there are loads of pretty women, and plenty of agencies to help you meet them. But if you want to stay long term there's the safety factor. I have a long-standing curiosity about and interest in Manizales, which supposedly is a beautiful and fairly safe city, but in other cities you're just not at liberty to get out and walk around worry-free, not to mention the dangers of the countryside. Cartagena is said to be relatively safe, but is also said to be home to the perennial Gold Medal winners of the Obnoxious Street Vendors' Olympics.

  Córdoba has some real advantages as a place to stay and study:
  It is relatively safe and peaceful, and you can *live, really live* there.
  It is architecturally beautiful due to its close linkage with Spain (thus the name).
   It is dirt cheap at the moment. The most expensive apartment rental I saw was 410 Pesos (@ 3.6 to $1) for  a three bedroom. Many buildings are of recent construction, too.
  It has a great cultural life, including concerts (including a local symphony), art and photo exhibits, and more tango lessons and shows than you would have time to attend. And all the events are either free or ridiculously cheap.
  It is close to the Sierra, which deserves far more time than I gave it.
  The women. Their main ethnic heritage is Spanish, but they are nicer and have better manners.

  Disadvantages:
  Smoking is as common in Argentina as in Spain, i.e. *very* common.
  I can't say what it would be like to be married to an Argentine woman. Considering some of the ones I met, and remembering Sylvia, there are probably a lot of good ones.

[corv]

... in response to Argentina: been there, done that..., posted by Bueller on Oct 29, 2002

I've been given some extra free time i.e. down sized. In the month of January I want to go and try to learn Spanish at a school. My Spanish is very basic no real sentence structure, only words. I have been in conntact with gmac in Guadalajara, Mexico. It was roughly 1000 a month for home stay and schooling. But Cordoba sounds great. Do you happen to have the name of any school there? Even better, any other information. I've stayed away from Argentine in the past because when I was in Uruguay in Punta de Lesta(sp) the Argentinians were VERY rude. But Cordoba sounds different. Thanks

[Bueller]

... in response to Please more about the schools, posted by corv on Oct 30, 2002

Here is a link for you, for a school which I know nothing about. It looks like some sort of middleman, though, which usually means considerably higher cost:

http://www.casadelenguas.com/argentina/indexcordoba.html

  $1000 a month is kind of high, though I've seen worse. That's the Gringo Surcharge at work. I just paid my fee at the local university here in Brazil, and it was R$200 (US$55) for a semester. The Universidad Nacional de Córdoba has a language program for foreigners, and also an outside program called the "Anexo", which is probably what you want. Here is UNC's URL, and you can probably email them in English if you want:

http://www.unc.edu.ar/

 A Google search for "Spanish School Córdoba Argentina" yields a number of results, but the one I looked at goes for US$200 a week, which is definitely a ka-CHING Gringo rate.

  I was befriended by a handful of recently-graduated dentists one night at a restaurant. They have been working only a day or two a week because of the economy, and have been doing other kinds of work to get by. I could ask them if they know private tutors, or even if they would tutor you. That would be much cheaper, and keep you out of the Gringo mill, assuming there is one there.

 When you plan on taking classes, don't plan on more than four hours a day in class. After that your brain just isn't taking it in as you sit there trying to listen, and you're wasting money. Just stay away from the Gringo Club outside class so you can chat and practice with the locals.

http://www.enforex.com/english/school_argentina.html charges €520 for four weeks @ four hours school a day, including home-stay lodging, which can be great if you get the right kind of family. Some treat you as a burden, others are really nice. That's not a bad price, if you get a good family and the school is good. That way you don't have to  search for an apartment or anything.

[corv]

... in response to More about the schools, posted by Bueller on Oct 30, 2002

Thanks For everything. My onLy question I went to the enforex.com website and it seemed like it was almost 2000 dollars for 4 weeks.Like 1900 and change did I read it wrong? If its only 520 for four weeks I'm there I might stay 2 months. I want homestay, but your totally right if you get a bad host that affects you alot. I don't know how you'll know before your already in the house though. Which is the problem.   Thanks Again

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: More about the schools, posted by corv on Oct 30, 2002

Come to think of it, here is another idea for you: I stayed at a pretty decent hotel downtown, the Felipe II, for 45 Pesos a night including continental breakfast. It seems likely that they might offer you a monthly rate, who knows, $250? Also I saw a hotel called the Hotel Garden, which was right on one of the many pedestrian-only streets in the center, and their rate was 25 Pesos a night, probably no breakfast and probably not quite as nice. Offer them $150 a month?

  If we can find you a private tutor at, say, US$5 per hour for four hours a day, you could have the rest of your days free to roam for your own lunch and dinner, as well as scout out all the cultural events, and you could plan on going *ALONE* to take Tango lessons, go to concerts, go to the bars where they have "folcloric" musicians-- keeping you totally out of any Gringo atmosphere and giving you every chance to meet lots of locals, including the female variety. Make sure you go to the tourist information center at the Cabildo, right off the Plaza San Martín, at least a couple of times a week to check out the roster of local events. Plus keep an eye out for signboards here and there: "concert by ________ here tonight, 7 PM, free", etc.

 If you do a home-stay, they often have other students staying with them at the same time. If your time is limited and you want to meet local ladies, you don't need to spend mealtimes speaking English with other Gringos and then going out nightclubbing with them.

[corv]

... in response to Re: Re: More about the schools, posted by Bueller on Oct 30, 2002

I hate to keep taxing you for information but that sounds like a great idea. I am almost certain I want to go to Argentina instead of Mexico. As long as I can get a good deal and everything straight. Are you still there? If so and you get bored could you see if you could find out any informtion either the hotel or for the teacher. Though 200 a week sounds like alot they would have to be a good teacher. I'll be on a budget. I'm looking for the best deal either a school with homestay or private with hotel.

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: More about the schools, posted by corv on Oct 30, 2002

I'll ask my friends for info on tutors. It's hard to spend $5 on dinner in a swanky steakhouse there, unless you're buying wine by the bottle, so let me see what the going rate for tutoring is in Pesos. Still, $100 a week for private tutoring is still less than what the school wants for group instruction. Ask the University what they have to offer at their "Anexo" as well, as it's certain to be dirt cheap.

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: More about the schools, posted by Bueller on Oct 30, 2002

I just talked to my friend Dani, and she says she pays 40 pesos a month for 2- 1.5 hour sessions a week. Her professor teaches Spanish as well, and she will ask about tutoring for you. You might get something of a Gringo surcharge, who knows, but what if you get charged double? That's still about 5 Pesos an hour.

Currency convertor:
http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic

  I also called the Hotel Garden (54-351-421-4729), and their monthly rate for a single with daily cleaning but no TV is 230 Pesos, or 270 with TV (US$65-77), payable in advance. The location couldn't be better, but my guess is the rooms are pretty simple. No breakfast, but you just walk outside onto the pedestrian mall and pick a café. It will be hot in January, and the hotel probably does not have air conditioning. I can check with the Felipe II tomorrow if you need A/C; it's probably double the above.

 So we're up to 500 Pesos a month for classes and lodging, assuming a 100% Gringo surcharge on the classes. How 'bout them pumpkins?

[corv]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More about the schoo..., posted by Bueller on Oct 30, 2002

I'm shocked!! Thank you SOOOOOO much..I think I could spring the extra 75 bucks for ac and tv..LoL..I would need more than 2 1.5 hour classes a week more like 5 three hour classes. But I'm going... Please let me know what the professor says and price of the other hotel. I will stay where you recommend is better as far as location and quality.The prices shock me. As a long time Brazil guy I'm used to cheap but this is off the chart. Seventy-five dollars for a month at a hotel. Where I live you pay that for eight hours..As far as the College goes I tried navigating there site but my Spanish is SO bad I couldn't find the Spanish classes. Isn't that sad..Let me know. Thanks Again, Brian

[Bueller]

... in response to Its done I'm there!!!!, posted by corv on Oct 30, 2002

I called the Felipe II

http://www.hotelfelipe.com.ar/

just now and their monthly rate is 35 per day = 1050 which is $297 at today's rates. That includes continental breakfast, and they have various desks and tables and private meeting rooms which they said you are welcome to use to meet with your tutor if you want.

 I also called the Córdoba Inn Apart Hotel

http://www.oha.com.ar/cor/dtosinn/html/principal.htm

and their rate is the same. It includes cable TV and air, plus emergency medical services, which I assume means they have a policy that covers their guests or something. Their location is great, three blocks from the big Teatro San Martín and Olmos shopping mall, and three blocks the other way to the start of the pedestrian streets. Referring to their web page, "cochera" is the local term for "garage" and "mucama" means housekeeping lady. With an apartment, that gives you a place to meet with your tutor as well.

  Well, the above is more than double what the Hotel Garden charges, but temperatures could get up into the 90's, so I'd go for the A/C. If $300 is too much, you can shop around once you get there.

[corv]

... in response to Re: Its done I'm there!!!!, posted by Bueller on Oct 31, 2002

300 hundred is fine. I would rather be comfortable and pay alittle more. Did you friend with the teacher get back to you. Can you let me have your email so we can talk off the board? Are you still in Argentina?

[Bueller]

... in response to Can you give me your email, posted by corv on Nov 1, 2002

I'm living in Brazil. My email is in my profile.

[Michael B]

... in response to Argentina: been there, done that..., posted by Bueller on Oct 29, 2002

Nice report, might inspire somebody to give the place a try. Reguarding the language, I find Mexicans easiest to understand, but that's probably just what I'm used to. Ha, my X (from Costa Rica) always said "You speak Spanish like a drunk Mexican"....and of course I would reply "And exactly HOW do you think I learned it?". I often have to ask Martha (from Cali) to slow down and repeat what she just said, and I hardly EVER have to ask a Mexican to do that, unless they just flat out use a word that I don't know.

But, once again, very good report.