Patrick, board etiquette?

[Cali vet]

Patrick the last time someone published someone else's name on this board she got kicked off in a hurry (zzzz). What's up with this agency owner who seems to want to indulge in tit-for-tat skirmishes, using the tactic?

[Patrick]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by Cali vet on Oct 17, 2002

Zzzz was banned for trying to sabotage someone's relationship, not for using someone's name.  I agree that real names should not be posted of those who wish to remain anonymous, and I've removed the name from the posts.

[pablo]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by Cali vet on Oct 17, 2002

No offense Cali vet, but her explanation in the above thread sounds fine to me.  I for one appreciate the comments of Colombianas on the board and felt it was unfortunate that ZZZ got banned.  Let's not be too hasty with another Latina poster.  I don't have any experience with this agency owner, but think everyone has an opportunity to respond to statements made here.  I might suggest cutting her a little slack.

[Margareth Mayor]

... in response to Re: Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by pablo on Oct 17, 2002

Pablo,

Thank you. As a latin woman and matchmaker I am here to help you understand our culture and how agencies work and assist the single guys looking for a good latin wife.
This is what really matters, I think posting is good to exchange information , not to attack anybody.

Hasta pronto !

Margareth Mayorca
Latin Encounters
Cali

[Wayne1]

... in response to Re: Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by pablo on Oct 17, 2002

Pablo,

Margareth using my real name is a serious cheap shot.  We all choose how we tell the public about how we met our wives.  Some of us tell the truth, but most of us tell some other story that doesn't include a marriage agency  and meeting 5 girls a day.

When we post information and stories about agencies on this board, of course some agency owners are going to figure out who is really posting the story by reading the details.

Trying to embarrass a guy by using his real name is lame at best.

The integrity of this board will not continue if anoniminity is lost.

An agency owner using my real name is showing a real lack of judgement and discretion.  

Personally I don't really give a rip if it's my full name, or my middle name that is at the bottom of my posts, but it's still not right.

Wayne

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by Wayne1 on Oct 17, 2002

This is a really tough one for me.  Anonymity on the board is important and I think it needs to be respected.  But on the other hand, if someone is accused of something by name and in public, what right does the accused have of defending his or her name from the accuser.  My question is, is it fair to accuse someone of something and identify them by name while at the same time hiding behind anonymity.  Maybe when the accused is a public figure or in the business it's different but in general I'm uncomfortable with this.

El Diablo

[CaliBound]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by El Diablo on Oct 18, 2002

Hello Señor Diablo:
I agree with you.  As they say in court  "You Opened The Door"... and now the other person has the right to do the same thing you did. In this case the use of your real name.

Wayne is a good person and has provided positive information to us about Cali and Latin Encounters in the past.  Lately, he has been a bit negative.  It could be that he is relying on "he said, she said" or third party info. We know what happens to this type of info: something gets added or remove before it reaches your ears.

Margareth is a good and helpful person -- she proved that to me during my visit to Cali. She can provide useful information to the people on this board. I was treated royally by her and her staff. During the many conversations that Margareth and I had, I never heard any negative comments about past clients. She does not even speak badly about her ex mujeriego husband!  

Let’s bury the axes (hopefully not on each other’s back!) and get along!  I hope that Wayne and Margareth can clear this misunderstanding and continue providing useful information to the members of this board.

Mi dos centavos,
Frank

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by El Diablo on Oct 18, 2002

Maybe the way out of your dilemma is to realize the undue value you are giving to your fuzzy notion of what is “fair” at the expense of more important values.  So, let us assume that it is not “fair to accuse someone of something and identify them by name while at the same time hiding behind anonymity”.  So, why don’t we do it anyway?  

A few things to consider:

1)  Even the police take anonymous tips because the tips may lead to useful information not because the tips are fair.  

2)  laws are not based on “fairness” and are frequently unfair (this is one of the first things you learn in law school).

3)  the agency owner has voluntarily offered their name (unless its an assumed name) as a part of doing business.

4)  a policy can be set based on what is most likely to produce the most useful information

5)  the fact that agency owners are concerned about their image on this board is a positive development for all of us.  Having spent a considerably amount of money myself on agencies and getting low quality, shoddy service in return, I don’t have much sympathy for protecting them from irate customers, and I feel that holding their feet to the fire is a very good thing to do and could have a positive outcome for everyone.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re:  Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by valuedcustomer on Oct 18, 2002


""Maybe the way out of your dilemma is to realize the undue value you are giving to your fuzzy notion of what is “fair” at the expense of  more important values.""

I don't see anything particularly fuzzy about the idea that a person should be able to confront their accuser.  This is the context I used the word "fair" in and if it's an idea that is fuzzy to you, you might look at the confrontation clause of the 6th amendment.  Granted this is the internet and not a court of law but it should be remembered that the internet does not protect a person from saying anything they want.  There are limits to speech even in cyberspace and over the past few years,  courts have been stepping in to prosecute libel cases that originated on the internet.  I'm not suggesting that anything that was said here was libelous but I am suggesting that you can not presume that anonymity is always a protected right.  I remember some comments that Cheif Justice Scalia made regarding anonymity, he had some concerns because of the problem of accountability.  An anonymous accuser in essence has no accountability.

You accuse me of being "fuzzy" with respect to my idea of fairness but what about your idea of "more important values".  You state it but don't define it.  What are these important values?  I'm assuming you are talking about "truth" but even truth can be fuzzy at times.  

""Even the police take anonymous tips because the tips may lead to useful information not because the tips are fair.""

This is an apples and orange case it seems to me.  There is a big difference between making an anonymous accusation in a public forum and making an anonymous tip to the police.  The courts look at each differently.  

""laws are not based on “fairness” and are frequently unfair (this is one of the first things you learn in law school).""

Undoubtedly true but what am I to take from this statement of yours.  Am I to presume because some laws are unfair that therefore fairness as a principle of law has no basis.  If this is your argument you may want to rethink it.  Read some basic philosphy and history,  fairness in the making of law is a fundamental principle and has a rich tradition. Now if your point is that fairness is not absolute I will agree with you but neither are principles of truth either.  For example, when the police arrest a person who is truly guilty of a crime but the person making the accusation will not testify, the guilty person will most likely be set free.  This would be a case where the inherent truth of a crime looses out to the unfairness of not being able to confront the accuser.  

El Diablo

[markxport]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by El Diablo on Oct 18, 2002

Great point!  Not taking sides with either party in this matter, but definitely a valid point.  Thanks.

Take care,

Mark

[pablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by Wayne1 on Oct 17, 2002

.

[Wayne1]

... in response to Patrick, board etiquette?, posted by Cali vet on Oct 17, 2002

LOL....

She insulted my wife...

Then she said my boat was small....

People have been killed for calling a guy's boat small!!

Wayne