No more self-abuse...

[Howard]

Guys/Gals

I’m heading into really familiar territory here and I’m concerned about the outcome.  My
depression is starting to turn to anger--this always happens with me, right before the
apathy.  I’m getting pretty tired of beating myself up, feeling like everything is my fault
with the problems I face daily with my wife.  I have done every thing that I am capable of
doing--notice the word “capable”--and yet, while she maintains that she is happy, I am
miserable.  

I love her, but what exactly am I supposed to do?  Do I just barge in and lay down the
law? Make a list that starts with “Be at least civil to the people who have turned their lives
inside freekin’ OUT to accomidate you...” and ends with “Even though it’s no fault of
yours, your husband’s had a bad day at work, maybe you could tell him you love him
rather than pulling the blanket over your head in hope that he won’t engage you in
conversation... “?  Is that what I need to do?  I am at the end of my rope.

Do you people really spend every second together?  Is that the way it works?  Has anyone
done this for more than a year or two?  If so, did you have anything in your life before you
tried to import happiness?  What did you give up to spend every second with your
wife/husband?  Anything?

I know what I have to do, but I HATE it!  I am a caring, giving person who always seems
to end up in failure, becuase I tried too hard to make something work.  How F#@&ed up is
that!?  I always give everything I have and end up miserable and worse yet, alone.

I thought I had found someone to spend the rest of my life with.  Well I guess I did find
that, if I am willing to never talk, never receive any companionship, never leave the house,
constantly listen to the Backstreet H@#@’s and watch MTV 24/7.  If that’s a good life,
then that I have.

I don’t believe--but I guess I’m no good judge of character with this situation
anymore--that this just about coming to America.  She has told me that she has no
intentions of staying here after I die.  But, I don’t know WHAT it’s about.  I made
everything clear in over two years worth of letters, she has even told me that everything
here, in my life, is exactly how I said it would be.  But, NOTHING she told me in her
letters is as she led me to believe it would be, except that she would take care of the
house.  Which I told her was not something that I needed or wanted.  I pleaded with her in
the letters to be honest with me.  She would write the the most beautiful things to me and
now this?  If my letters were a week later than she thought they should be, the letters she
would write would break my frickin’ heart!  And now her emotions are on a switch that’s
stuck in the “Off” position?  She’s rude to my friends.  She’s abrupt with me.  She
occaisionally makes my mother CRY!  

And still I try to figure out what I am doing wrong.  Still I can’t find it in me to threaten to
send her home, let alone actually send her home.  I keep thinking of her mothers words
and what a disgrace it would be for their family if Ayesa and I divorce, in their perception
anyway.  Why do I love her so much that I am willing to make everyone else around me
miserable?  Is there a pill I can tale to cure this?

I guess my only choices are to 1) Lay down the law.  Now, I get to be the guy I’ve never
wanted to be.  Naively I have always hoped that if I treated someone well enough, that
they would treat me well in return.  35yrs of disappointment has finally proven what I had
already suspected.  Nice guys finish LAST!  Call me crazy, but I feel the need to give her
one last chance.  Maybe she is this dense and doesn’t truely understand the consequences
of her actions.  I’ve been wrong about everything else, maybe, blinded by love, I’ve given
her too much credit.  2)  If nothing drastcly improves in the extremely near future, send
her back where she came from.

Any suggestions would be welcomed.  I really do appreciate the support you guys have
been giving me.

H

[Bear]

... in response to No more self-abuse..., posted by Howard on Jun 26, 2001

bringing her mother here?  I'd be willing to help with the costs.

Bear

[Don J]

... in response to No more self-abuse..., posted by Howard on Jun 26, 2001

Howard

Now is the time to take action, tell her you love her (you obviously do)and explain that this is the only logical solution to possibly working things out. Ayesa sounds to be in a severe state of depression, all the signs are there and depression is not to be taken lightly for both of your sakes. Look at what recently happened with the woman in Texas who killed her 5 children.

I hate to say it Pal, but things just don't sound as if they have a chance to improve while she is living here. As far as what her family thinks, ask them what would be a bigger disgrace, separation or suicide. If she is as depressed as she seems, she could do harm to herself. You need to explain to her family that they need to be supportive of her and help her to find out what is causing her problems.

I can't begin to tell you how bad I feel for both of you, when I think of how happy my Chele makes me and how thankful I am that she has come into my life I can't help but wonder if someday I may experience your disappointment. I tell my wife several time a day that I love her, she waves goodbye to me from the window when I leave for work and greets me at the door when I return, and if I have a truly bad day at work (up to about 40% of the time lately) my pissed off mood miraculously changes when I see her smiling face. I understand if Ayesa mood is bad it will only intensify your already lousy mood which has to make the atmosphere in your house atrocious.

You mention that you have read Ayesa's letters from the past 2 years and nothing seemed to alarm you of any potential problems. I hate to say this, however I feel that perhaps Ayesa had fallen in love with the idea of being married to a man that could express such love for her and was blinded to the reality of what it takes to be successful in both life and marriage here in our country. The images that are portrayed on television and in books of the American way of life don't show the struggle it really takes to succeed in our country. Before I made any commitment to Chele, I would explain to her the ugly side of our country, the prejudice, the poverty, the violence, the politics and the struggle it takes to survive hear. For some reason Howard, I get the feeling that Ayesa had this image in her mind that with your musical background she was marrying one of the Backsteet Boys ) (had to lighten up a little)

In any case man, don't beat yourself to death here, I struggled for 46 years trying to find the right women, and I too could not figure out what I was doing wrong that would make my relationships fall apart. I treated them like queens yet things didn't work out. While I had friends that treated their wives and girlfriends like dogs and they where crazy about them. I don't suggest you treat Ayesa like a Dog, I don't think that's in your makeup or fair to her or anyone else for that matter. But it's time to explain with the same passion and emotion you expressed during your courtship why it is best for her to return home and work things out in her own mind as to why she is so unhappy here. It may not work out the way I believe most of us here pray it will work out for you, but in my humble opinion I think this would be the healthiest solution for you both.

God Bless, my prayers are with you both!
Don J

[Dave H2O]

... in response to While there is still a chance...., posted by Don J on Jun 27, 2001

Hi Don,

My once vibrant and active wife (for 9 years) started to lie on the sofa  and watch MTV and Oprah all day while I worked. I thought she was just tired at first. When I came home, I had to cook dinner, feed and bath the kids, clean the house and do laundry. Then go to my second job. I finally realized that she was depressed, while she finally learned the solution to her problems from one of the talk shows. "The problem is your husband and kids. A new man will make you happy!" 9 great years + 3 miserable ones = 12 years married, time for a divorce.

Dave H.

[humabdos]

... in response to No more self-abuse..., posted by Howard on Jun 26, 2001

Howard how about letting her read all the posts here although it could make her mad. I  don't know.... Humabdos

[shadow]

... in response to Re: HOWARD, posted by humabdos on Jun 27, 2001

be SOME kind of reaction! That's much better than hiding under the covers!!  Larry.

[SteveG]

... in response to Re: HOWARD, posted by humabdos on Jun 27, 2001

Humbados,
 That's not an entirely bad idea.   It just might jolt her enough to drive home the seriousness of the situation and force her to at least open up and talk to Howard.
                           SteveG

[SteveG]

... in response to No more self-abuse..., posted by Howard on Jun 26, 2001

Howard,
   First, I’ll try to answer your question.   You asked about those of us who have been married a while and  how many activities outside of marriage we have had to give up to spend time with our wives.   I have been married to Melly now almost 7 years so I guess that qualifies me to say something.       I used to go shoot rifles every Tuesday evening at a silouhete range, go to my friends house every Wensday night to work on cars, Trap shoot every Thursday evening, spend every weekend at my parents house working on cars, tractors, making things on the lathe or milling machine or hunting etc.   Oh yeah, Monday nights I usually went to the gym along with other nights.    Obviously it’s not fair to get married and continue with all these “outside” activities that NO woman would care for.   (Yeah, I hear people say there are women who like such stuff but I’ll grind my TransAms up and eat them grease and all - without salt - if you can show me one of them. LOL)     To get to my point, of course you have to give up many things when you get married BUT it should be because you want to be with your spouse.    I don’t go to the gym anymore, no more shooting at these organized events either, no Wensday night car extravaganzas.   All that is in the past and I don’t really miss it because I remember how life was before Melly came along and I wouldn’t trade being with her for those activities 100 times over.   I still do go to my parents house one day most weekends to play mechanic and often help my father with farm work.  And yes, sometimes she gets mad about being away too much and I try to be sensitive to that and skip a weekend when she gets too stressed out over it.   To be honest, this one thing is what myself and Melly have had the most problems about.    Sometimes I have been mad about it but then how can you really hold it against somebody who is telling you they want to be with you more???     How can this help you?   Are you honestly trying your best to spend time with Ayesa on a consistent basis?    Does she have legitimate gripe about this?      If you ARE giving it all you can, then I don’t see this as the real problem – only her excuse to put the blame back on you for her unhappiness.     After all, if you do give up something to be with her and she rewards you with a “Tampon”  (hehe that’s what I like to call the famous tampos!) the entire time you are together, it sure don’t make you want to do it again, does it?   She has to meet you half way if time together is the real problem.
     
   This whole thing you are experiencing reminds me so much of my first Fiancée in Hong Kong.    I made the somewhat naive mistake of choosing her based purely on her looks and profile in the agency book I got along with the addresses.   [Yeah, I wrote to 264 others but I wanted her from the start!]   Like you, I thought that I could earn love by showering her with attention.    I think she thought I was a nice guy and liked the attention I gave her and wanted to be happily married but she just didn’t love me.   (Maybe this fits Ayesa too?)   Her lack of enthusiasm was a red flag all along but I ignored it.  On my second trip to see her, we even talked about what was the problem with her silence and seeming apathy towards me sometimes.   Her exact words were, “I don’t know what is wrong with me.”     I finally figured it out myself, I knew she had broken up with her boyfriend in the Philippines just before going to HK and in my mind at least, she was still in love with him.    I was only a nice guy who she liked and could offer her marriage but that certain spark just wasn’t there.    I think she wanted to love me, but you can’t force love, it either happens or not – it’s out of your control.    We certainly had fun together but marriage just wasn’t in the cards.     I have told here several times how her membership in the Iglesia ni Cristo drove a wedge between us – that was very very true but it was her complete lack of enthusiasm for our relationship in general that made me stop trying to fix the religion problem and walk away.  It hurt bad because I had already gotten used to the idea of spending the rest of my life with her but living with someone who goes into long sullen periods of depression and refuses to talk is way worse than being alone in my opinion.      I had a long, straight to the point talk with her my second time in HK and we ended it.  I told her that my wants and needs were going to have to be considered before marriage was an option with anyone.     As I expected, all this did was confirm the end.     I could do this, but the problem is that I was only engaged and you are married.    

    As far as Ayesa’s family is concerned, they will get over it if you two end it.   You shouldn’t live the rest of your lives in misery just to give a false outward appearance of tranquility for their sake.    

   Marriage counseling???    I don’t know what I think about its effectiveness sometimes.   It seems to me that the only way it can work is if BOTH people are willing to work at it.    Of course if both people are willing to work at it and willing to accept some of the blame, then they will probably solve their problems themselves without the counselor.    If one person has to be dragged to a counselor, I doubt there will be much improvement as a result of counseling.      

   I think you know you are going to have to give an ultimatum or this will possibly go on until you leave this earth and that isn’t a particularly pleasant thought, is it?    I personally expect nothing will change and you will have to follow through with your ‘threat’.   It seems to me that what everyone has been saying about sending her back to the Philippines is about the most appropriate “threat” to use short of an outright divorce.     Maybe some time there will change her, but then don’t count on it.   There seems to be something missing in your marriage that is causing her deep depression and if it hasn’t corrected itself after the relatively long time you have spent together, I doubt it will.   I have to say, I admire your honesty and openness in sharing this so that others who are just starting this process might benefit from it.  
                                                             SteveG

[SteveB]

... in response to Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by SteveG on Jun 27, 2001

You mention ingles ni cristo church,,,Kevin is courting a girl from this religion,,I heard bad things about this religion from the board over a year ago!  Is this something to worry about?  They said it was a cult back then...its in old archives.  Kevin don't take this wrong....steveB

[SteveG]

... in response to Re: Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by SteveB on Jun 28, 2001

Steve,
  Much of what was written about that chucrh was written by myself and Kevin is very aware of it all.   I hope it all works out for him and Analyn.
                                     SteveG

[katy]

... in response to Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by SteveG on Jun 27, 2001

I can't explain how - but your post touched me on several
levels. You sound like a real sweetheart, and your wife is
luck

[Dave H2O]

... in response to Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by SteveG on Jun 27, 2001

Hi Steve,

Going to the store to buy feminine products for your wife. "Tampon" ROFLMAO! When I used to work at a grocery store as a kid, we called tampons "Manhole Covers."  ;o))

Dave H.

[SteveG]

... in response to Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by Dave H2O on Jun 27, 2001

Dave,
 "Manhole", huh???   Yeah, I can see how that definition would apply.     You're bringing out my dirty mind here Dave.
                                  SteveG

[Don J]

... in response to Sacrifices for Marrige....., posted by SteveG on Jun 27, 2001

I don't see sending her home to the Philippines as a threat, more so as a possible solution to the problem. I think it is important to emphasis to her that Howard is not punishing her by sending home but only trying to right things whatever the outcome.

I think your points as to looking beyond these ladies appearance should be well taken, something I have emphasized for a long time on this board.

Again Great advice from a veteran!
Don J

[Ray]

... in response to Great advice, however......, posted by Don J on Jun 27, 2001

I keep trying to tell these guys to get an "ugly" one...:-)

Ray