How can she get full parental rights?

[michaeljay]

My Colombian fiancee has two kids that I would soon like to bring to
the USA and adopt.  Is there a standard process for her to get
granted full custodial rights?  They were never married and the father
(25) pays no child support.  She went to a state attorney a few
months ago to try to get him to pay up and leave her alone (he was
annoying her 4-5 months ago) but he has done nothing since except
stop annoying her.  We are willing to pay him off if necessary.  He has
another child with another woman.  And yet even another woman is
currently pregnant from his sperm trail.  Any and all ideas are
appreciated ...

[Pete E]

... in response to How can she get full parental rights?, posted by michaeljay on Aug 27, 2002

Welcome to Colombian law.
I have a similar situation.If the fathers name is shown on the childs birth certificate it does not matter if they were married or if he ever paid a cent of support.Every time,not just the first time,you take the child out of the country you need a letter of permission from the father no more than 60 days old.
We got a signature when we were married,and took the child out of the country.He had a US visa and a green card.When we went to leave the country on our first vacation back,no signature,the kid stays.The father would not sign and we got him out by dudious means after spending 11 extra days in Colombia on top of a 21 day vacation.We spent the whole next year,2001,getting a form of exclusive custody where we would not need the fathers signature.We spent several hundred dollars in legal fees to our Colombian attorney.This worked to get him out in January 2002.My wife went back in July,with the kid,found the law had changed and she again needed the fathers signature.Fortunately we are now on good terms with him and he signed.We will need this signature every time the kid leaves the country untill he gets a US passport.
The easiest thing is to get on good terms and make a deal with the guy.Swallow your pride and indignation and negotiate with him.You need an ongoing agreement because at any time he can stop you from taking the kid out of the country.In our case the father was initially angry but later realised he would get to see his son 1-2 times a year this way and the son has a much better future here and is doing very well.It helps that he is a good kid and the fathers whole family is very impressed with him.They even told my wife she is a very good mother because he is such a good kid.
There are several ways to get him out of the country once,without the fathers permission,all basically illegal and risky.If you take one of these paths the kid can't go back untill he gets a US passport or the father is now willing to sign.And you could get in big trouble if you ever go back.Plus I think the US embassy wanted to see that letter of permission before he got his visa,so you still have a problem there.You could forge it,this is done but could get in trouble with the Colombia government and also US INS.
For what its worth the law works the same if the father
wants to take the kid out of the country,signatures by both parents required.
I was surprised to learn that all our efforts of last year were for nothing,but this is what my wife tells me.We have a very good attorney in Cali who knows this area of the law well.Not all attorneys do.We spent months with the wrong attorney and got nowhere.But it seems all our efforts got us nowhere any way.
Its better to deal with the guy,but again you are subject to him causing you problems EVERY time the kid leaves the country.
If you adopt the kids that might speed up the Us passport,I'm not sure how that works.If the father objects you have a legal battle.It was easier to get the exclusive custody,now worthless I guess,than to adopt.

Pete

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: How can she get full parental rights..., posted by Pete E on Aug 27, 2002

I have been told that there are two types of custody (I believe called "la patria" in Colombia) that the mother can obtain: Temporary and Permanent.  If so, temporary sounds like another word for "worthless".  With temporary the father can return to court at any time and rescind his permission, (so I've been told).  With permanent patria she can come and go with the children forever and the father can't stop her.  I don't know Colombian law, but that is what I have heard.

As far as adoption, that is out of the question for me.  Adoption equals possible child support (which I lovingly refer to as "state-sponsored extortion").  Paying an outrageous monthly "alimony" check disguised as child support is painful enough when it is your own child.  Imagine how you would feel if it was another man's child.

Last Saturday the father of my fiancee's children signed the permission letter for them to leave.  After that she says they won't be going back until they are adults, but maybe...  If he negotiates a permanent patria and Colombian legal advice says it's solid, they might go back for visits.

Steve

[michaeljay]

... in response to Re: How can she get full parental rights..., posted by Pete E on Aug 27, 2002

Thank you for the very useful information.  Can you give
me the name and phone number of your attorney in
Cali?

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: How can she get full parental ri..., posted by michaeljay on Aug 27, 2002

The attorney in Cali is Petronio Valencia.I have 2 numbers.011-572-449-0608 and 439-8253.He used to work for the government agency that oversees these issues so knows this area of law well.
As far as all of our efforts with him last year being for nothing,that may not be true.Someone at DAS (Colombian Immigration)told my wife she still needed the fathers signature so she got it.This is one of those areas where our language problem comes up(I don't speak spanish,my wife is about 50% in english).When it comes to some technical explanation I think I understand,then find out I didn't.Also I'm not sure my wife totally understands the situation here.If she still needs the signature what was the point of our effort with Petronio?I don't think she knows for sure,so best talk to Petronio.Its possible the DAS guy didn't know the effect of her custody rights or she didn't properly explain it too him.
Also,if you are leaving the country with the kids you may want to check that your papers are OK before the day you attempt to board the flight.Sometimes I think its still third world slap stick down there,with alot of officials you will encounter just going by the normal rules and not understanding anything more complex.Also some off these guys like to play god.They are the big duck in the little pond.They might make $300 a month but they have alot of power.My wife said when she was leaving a woman with a daughter was pleading with them and her and the child were crying.That wasn't working and they weren't getting out.

Pete