Some good reading before you hop on the plane

[lex]

Colombia - DangerFinder
Address:http://www.comebackalive.com/df/dplaces/colombia/index.htm

I offer this only so those who want to know where they are going can do so...for those who already know, or dont believe then disregard.....This is one of the sources I alluded to a couple of guys here who said I was full of it when I talked about the FARC....and Colombia in general.....happy reading..

[jim c]

... in response to Some good reading before you hop on the ..., posted by lex on Aug 27, 2002

I gave that book away two years ago. The information is out dated and profiles 1997. A year of changes in Colombia is like five years any where else. The situation has changed drasticaly. The book is a piece of yellow journalism and the stats are skewed to make everything seem more dangereous. The guy is selling books.
  For every book you read you can find an opposite opinion. Listen to the people who have first hand experience. Cali can be dangereous. I have been robbed there but it was my fault. I was where I shouldn't have been, drunk and looking like I was a rich american.Yes there are farc cadres in Cali. But they don't roam the streets looking for americans to kidnap. Being in farc is like getting a licence to rob, steal, extort and kidnap. Plus that drug income provides the latest equipment and supports their familys. They are only warlords evolved from a peasant uprising 40 years ago. Its a business. They are supported by a minute segment of Colombian society, mostly the poor compesinos. In order to have a true democracy you need to have an educated populace. If you don't understand the world, you are only interested in your own personal gripes and problems. I have been going to Cali for three years and have found if you stay in nice areas and protect yourself you will be safe. Listen to the advice of experienced people on this list, unless you are only looking for a good argument. JIM C

[lex]

... in response to Re: Some good reading before you hop on ..., posted by jim c on Aug 28, 2002

Yes, the situation has changed drastically in Colombia, its gotten worse. Throw the book away if you want, I just put it out there for information purposes. You may want to go there, but most Colombians would love to get out, the ones with money mostly already have.....good luck..

[CaliBound]

... in response to Some good reading before you hop on the ..., posted by lex on Aug 27, 2002

I recently returned from an 8 day visit to Cali. Before going to Cali, I read many of the websites with info about the situation in Colombia. I postponed my trip several times because of the negative views most of this sites presented about the country.  The US Government's travel warnings did not help any either.

Then, I remembered how I got mugged several times while coming home from visiting my girlfriend when I lived in New York City. I figured that Cali could not be worst and decided to get off the fence and go.  I am glad I did.

While in Cali, I never felt threatened and met some wonderful people.  Contrary to the "bullets were flying" adventures posted here by some board members, I did not even hear a firecracker go off! The city was quiet and peaceful.

I am not saying that Colombia is totally safe -- no country is -- but if you stay out of troubled areas, you should not encounter any problems.  As the saying goes, "Seek and you shall find!" I did not go seeking for "trouble" and "trouble" did not find me.

I am looking forward to visiting Cali soon.  I miss my lovely lady!  I miss the friendly people.  I miss the foods. I am looking forward to living there someday!

Frank

[Cali vet]

... in response to Trouble Will Find You -- If You Go Looki..., posted by CaliBound on Aug 28, 2002

I was also in Cali recently for three weeks, around the time of your visit I think. Like you say, Cali was Cali, nothing new, no bad experiences, no trouble. I made one bus trip up to Tulua and trips to Yotoco and Buga. No problems or tense moments. If the "bullets were flying" was a reference to my news item regarding the prison director well I only mentioned it because the location is well knowned to many readers. Shootings, mostly in north St. Louis are reported every day almost without exception in the St. Louis Post Dispatch. In fact I have been going to Cali since about 1997 and in that time I've heard of four incidents involving Americans:

1. Four years ago a group of five gringos were sitting around in an agency with the front door wide open at ten o'clock at night. Four Colombians entered and robbed them.

2. A guy at an agency told me he was out on Av Sexta with a girl and two muggers approached. He immediatly through one to the ground and they took off.

3. A Doctor I met at an agency who spoke Spanish well decided to go some where by bus but got on the wrong one. He could see that where he wanted to go was in walking distence of a bus stop so he got off (maybe in El Centro). Within half a block he was surrounded by a group of guys one of which showed a knife. He handed over his wallet and they let him proceed.

4. I think it was Jim C. who recounted recently on the board that he experienced a mugging attempt as he was getting into a taxi on Sexta.

Obviously there are incidents I haven't heard of and maybe a couple I've forgotten and there's no question there's a lot of crime but I've gone down to Cali a lot in the last five years and those are the only ones I can come up with; an average day in north St. Louis minus the shootings. As much crime as there may be, American visitors seem to be able to avoid it by avoiding the riskier areas. If others have stories I'd like to hear them. I will add that I balked at one suggestion on my last trip. My fiance wanted to swimming at Rio Pance just south of Cali I beleive. I said uh uh. Anybody been there?

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Trouble Will Find You -- If You Go L..., posted by Cali vet on Aug 28, 2002

Regarding the Rio Pance, I went there for a picnic in April 2001.  It's up the road from Pance and very crowded on the weekend.  Even though it's called a river it's more like a creek if you ask me.  You can play in the water but I think a person would be hard pressed for swimming.  There are some clubs along the way that having swimming pools if a person were interested.

El Diablo

[Cali vet]

... in response to Trouble Will Find You -- If You Go Looki..., posted by El Diablo on Aug 28, 2002

Thanks El Diablo, I'll go with her next time then.

[CaliBound]

... in response to Re: Trouble Will Find You -- If You Go L..., posted by Cali vet on Aug 28, 2002

Hi Cali vet: I was not referring to the info you posted about the incident near Chipichapi. I came across the article while reading El Pais Online. You and I know that incidents like this one will not keep us from visiting the malls in Cali, for this can happen -- and it does -- in any city in the world.  We just have to pray that it does not occur while we are in the area.

[lswote]

... in response to Some good reading before you hop on the ..., posted by lex on Aug 27, 2002

I am leaving for LAI in Bogota at 5:00 this afternoon.  I appreciate you bringing this information to our attention and your basic premise about the FARC is correct, but statistics alone don't tell the whole story and are sometimes very misleading.  Statistics are interpretations of raw data, not data itself and people often find a way to make data say what they want it to say.  Republicans and Democrats often seem to find statistics about the same data which benefits their differing points of view.  

So I don't feel the statistics on the site you referred to can imply much more that what most of us following Colombia know already.  Colombia is a dangerous place and caution is highly advised.  But waiting until it is "safe" will probably never come, or at least not until big changes happen.

I admit to giving a lot of thought to my decision to go to Colombia after the events of the last few weeks, but I would like to find a Colombian wife, and I won't find one staying in the US.

[lswote]

... in response to Bogota bound, posted by lswote on Aug 28, 2002

I made it to Bogota safe and sound and am staying at Latin American Introductions (Charlie´s Place).  Met a few girls last night, will be meeting a lot more today.  I will post more later.

[Hoda]

... in response to Bogota bound, posted by lswote on Aug 28, 2002


and well thought out! If I had just relied on cold stats, I would have never had met my wife. Go my friend, be safe & travel safe. Upon your return, please post about your experiences...

Hoda

[beattledog]

... in response to Bogota bound, posted by lswote on Aug 28, 2002

When you return, please give us a trip report. I am thinking about going myself.

Beattledog

[Cali vet]

... in response to Bogota bound, posted by lswote on Aug 28, 2002

I've posted this before but since we're on the subject again:

For statistics without hype on kidnapping in Colombia go to: www.antisecuestro.gov.co and click on "estadisticas".

[Hoda]

... in response to Re: Bogota bound, posted by Cali vet on Aug 28, 2002

excellent work, my man! C-Vet, if more Americans would take the time to look at America from the "outside". They wouldn't be so quick, to point out how "violent" the rest of the world is. The only place on this planet where I had to stare down the barrel of a gun, was right here in the USA.

Once again, excellent work bro.....

[Wanderer]

... in response to Excellent info..., posted by Hoda on Aug 28, 2002

Hoda, You make an excellent point regarding how quick we are to point out how "violent" the rest of the world is.  I lived in the Middle East for quite some time, Israel to be specific, so I feel qualified to discuss how things are blown out of proportion (pun not intended) by the news media.

When I lived in Israel, I felt far safe than I ever did living in Los Angeles. While there were random acts of terrorism occuring, I still felt safe and could walk in most areas without fear. I have yet to attempt this in Los Angeles.

The only place in this planet where I have been the victim of violence is the good ole USA.

Taking simple precautions, listening to the locals and trying not to be too obvious as an American should keep most people out of danger. Of course, Good old common sense is always useful, however it may be in short supply in some cases.

Your milage may vary!