My Factual Experiences with LAI in Bogota

[Steve]

I had an experience some time ago I want to share with the men thinking about going to Colombia and Bogota in particular.  I found a girl who I thought was on the level -- decent, really wanting to share a future of togetherness and mutually giving -- and she turned out to be a 24 karat golddigger.  After spending a good amount of time with Jenny and getting the endorsement of her character of everyone at the agency she was with and I joined, Latin American Introductions, I proceeded with planning a future with her and upon returning back to the U.S., began filing the proper papers for her to come here.  Very sadly, her calls upon my returning home -- the rare calls she would make as I made most of them and am still paying for that phone bill all these months later -- her calls were always about money...sending her money, money and money.  Eventually, it was clear she had no character and was a supreme taker.  I was told by Nelson and Lucas of Latin American Introductions that because of what they had witnessed with her, the very specifics of how I had been used, she would never be allowed back in the agency.  Both Nelson and Lucas, separately, gave me their word on this and they did so repeatedly. I told Lucas and Nelson several times I didn't want any other guy in the future to be burned by her, hurt and abused while he was giving his whole heart, as I had.

I was shocked to learn last night, all these months later, she had been allowed back in the agency and got engaged last December.  Wrote to Nelson about this, telling him I couldn’t believe this backstabbing/lack of integrity.  He wrote back lamely, for lack of anything better to defend himself with, saying, “How dare you question the integrity of our agency?”  I responded by saying I didn’t have to question his/the agency’s integrity, the lack of it spoke for itself.  Obviously, Nelson and Lucas felt I was back in the U.S., I would never find out about it, so what the hell...integrity nowhere to be found.  Thought they were a bit classier than this and was so sorry to find out I was wrong.  Very, very wrong.

This was also the same Nelson who told me, when after many months of my trying to get the expensive engagement ring back after Jenny showed her true colors, upon receiving it and my repeatedly calling, “You know, we don’t have to give this back to you.  We’re doing it as a courtesy to you.  I should make you come all the way back to Bogota to get it.”

This, mind you, was after, while being down there, helping his Mother at the agency, Lucy, by paying for a roundtrip flight back to Florida without which she would have lost her visa, buying a rather large gift for one of the children of one of his staff and also, at the AGENCY's REQUEST, just as a courtesy, helping to write a script for their sales video narration.  

Very simply, for the guys out there thinking of going, I thought a simple relating of the facts, without any subjective commentary, would speak for itself.   Latin Life Mates might be a much more trustworthy choice as an agency to visit than LAI.  If you're going to go down there, you had better know where to go and WHERE NOT TO GO.

Sad to report this news but factually true,
wsteve

[El Diablo]

... in response to My Factual Experiences with LAI in Bogot..., posted by Steve on Aug 5, 2002


Welcome to Planet Love Steve.  This appears to be your 1st post here....  (-:

OK...I read your indictment against LAI and I just don't see what you're seeing!!!

Based on your own words, it appears you got engaged to some woman you barely knew and were looking for some kind of endorsement of her character from her agency.  The truth of the matter is that the agency staff don't really know the women beyond them dropping in now and again for a few appointments.  If you ask the staff what they think of ANY particular girl, of course they will say something to the fact that they believe her to be a decent person. What do you really expect from them? The FACT that you would ask LAI's opinion of her and put a lot of weight to it says more in my opinion about your JUDGEMENT or naivette then any lack of character on LAI's part.  

As I read your indictment against your ex-fiancee and LAI, it sounded to me anyway to be self serving and vindictive.  As an example, you make a point to mention all the numerious telephone calls you made, your huge bill (that to this day you are still paying off) and that she called you rarely.  So what, this is more or less par for the course.  I never expect my Colombia friends to call me as the cost is disproportional for them.  I always make the calls and my bill with my fiancee is huge.  Furthermore your story doesn't entirely make sense, if all she does is ask you for money, why would you have such a huge phone bill.  The fact that you're talking with her frequently suggests that you accepted her behavior.  I think people need to take responsibility for their part in a relationship.  If at some point you felt that you were giving more of yourself than she then fine, move on and let the situation go.  

However by your own words it appears you didn't let the situation go and just move on.  No, you went to LAI and requested that your now ex-fiancee be removed from the agency forever.  This is what you said in your own words, "Both Nelson and Lucas, separately, gave me their word on this and they did so repeatedly. I told Lucas and Nelson several times I didn't want any other guy in the future to be burned by her, hurt and abused while he was giving his whole heart, as I had."   The fact that they gave their word REPEATEDLY, suggests to me any way that it was something you repeatedly questioned them about.  Again, if it were me, I'd have just let it drop and let bygones be bygones.

Another interesting part of your story is your reaction to your ex-fiancee's engagement.  She appearently found someone new and according to your own words has been engaged for at least 7 months, but instead of being happy for her,  you see her engagement as a betrayel of the agency to you.  Again here are your own words, "I was shocked to learn last night, all these months later, she had been allowed back in the agency and got engaged last December. Wrote to Nelson  about this, telling him I couldn’t believe this backstabbing/lack of integrity."

Anyway, may advice is to move on and not waste your energy on acts which may give the impression of vindictiveness.

El Diablo

[Steve]

... in response to Personal responsibilty, vindictiveness a..., posted by El Diablo on Aug 6, 2002

El Diablo,
Certainly appreciate your thoughts but let's keep the facts as they actually are and were.
As far as the agency staff not knowing too much about Jenny, this is ridiculous:  she was living with Lucy, Nelson's Mom, and Lucy referred to her as "really like my daughter."

Let me reiterate at no point did I ask the agency not to accept Jenny back;  Lucas and Nelson, however, both independently told me they would not let her back in because of her behavior, I responded by saying that seemed a valid thing to do as I did not wish her to hurt anyone in the future...this was my response to THEIR suggestion, not a request.

Regarding the vindictive approach you mentioned, I do not wish her ill, nor do I wish the agency ill, just would like them to fess up to going back on their word.  A little appreciation for some kindnesses would be nice, but Nelson is so busy not appreciating, it's ridiculous.  With respect to Jenny, the truth is, I feel a kind of apathy...if she's found happiness, great...as a Christian and as a decent person, I wish no one ill, and to suggest I do not wish her happiness and success is simply not true, and that is why I can't respond with getting upset about such a notion because of this.

[LatinIntro]

... in response to My Factual Experiences with LAI in Bogot..., posted by Steve on Aug 5, 2002

It is a perceived notion that silence is usually associated with guilt, and we are not guilty as charged.

I will be posting the events that took place and the other side of the story of this uncomfortable situation, but I am recollecting facts and proof from Jenny (Steves exfiancee), the men that know Steve firsthand and from Jenny's current fiancee.

I want to keep LAI's name and reputation (as well as mine), as clean as it always has been. We DO care for our clients and contrary to some beliefs all agencies are NOT  motivated by greed or any other flaw that would damage our reputation.

I will post as soon as I have all the facts.

Thanks for all those interested,

Nelson Grisales
nelson@latinintro.com

[Steve]

... in response to Re: My Factual Experiences with LAI in B..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 6, 2002

"All I see you is giving and giving and her doing nothing for you." Lucas (three way call Lucas was aware of, remarks witnessed by a friend in New York, about Jenny after many months)
"I will post this weekend as soon as I have all the facts, and many of you will be shocked with what I have to show." Nelson

Great melodramatics to be sure, but I would suggest you be absolutely certain you have all the facts backed up by honest witnesses, receipts, phone bills and such as I do, and if you are going to fabricate because the simple plain old truth is embarrassing, well, from a standpoint of sheer ethics (are there any here to be found at all?), that would be even further disappointing. Would it be so terrible to admit you went back on your word? Wouldn't that be the decent thing to do? That would earn some respect back. As ol' Andy Griffith used to say, honesty works much better. For your Mom's ticket, Lucas' baby's gift and the video narration editing, so much for appreciation......

[pastilla100]

... in response to My Factual Experiences with LAI in Bogot..., posted by Steve on Aug 5, 2002


I really sympathize with your situation.  I also met a woman in Bogota and she has excellent character.  She has called me numerous times and has never once asked me for money.  The truth is that these agencies are not going to warn you about a bad woman.  They just aren't.  They don't see that as their job.  And if a woman is pretty and marketable they won't kick her out and reduce their income.  When I was at the agency I had to sort out the bad ones myself.  And there were bad ones and I had to figure it out myself.  I wouldn't trust this job to anyone because everyone you talk to has a conflict of interest.  For example, ask one of the guys "Is she good?"  If he likes her he may so no and if he doesn't like you he may say "yes".  And if a member of the agency gives an opinion they are in a no win situation.  The worst thing you can do is ask anyone in that crazy environment for advice.  The absolute worst.  I learned that the hard way myself once.  If you want advice, bring down your mother.  I don't know why the agencies just don't put a disclaimer on their sites and say this: "WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE CHARACTER OF THE WOMEN WE INTRODUCE YOU TOO".  Even if they don't, rest assured you are the one who has to live with her.  

BELIEVE ME THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT HER CHARACTER NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY.  REPEAT THAT TO YOURSELF 10 TIMES AND BE ON NOTICE.  IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY

P:S.   Give out her name and membership number so other guys can avoid her.  

[Steve]

... in response to Re: My Factual Experiences with LAI in B..., posted by pastilla100 on Aug 6, 2002

Pastilla100,

Thank you so very much.  I think you most eloquently, briefly, helpfully, said all that has to be said/addressed everything that is being discussed, when it comes down to facts, where the "rubber meets the road", so to speak and the FINAL WORD/the bottom line/the underlying TRUTH.  I can tell you I learned this:  not to give away friendship, generosity and kindness so easily because in the case of Nelson, Lucas, Lucy, it was obviously not appreciated...I guess you've got to let people earn your friendship...I thought kindness and compassion would mean something to them, because I saw financial hardship/suffering/needs and the stress it brings, but I guess you don't give it away so easily, and that's what Nelson and Lucas and Lucy have taught me.  This may sound corny or silly, perhaps worthy of ridicule of some of the more jaded people reading this, but it really is an earnest lesson, a sad one, for me to learn.  For me and all of you who choose to learn from it to avoid mistakes in the future, that's the legacy of LAI.  Be very, very careful.

Again, heartfelt thanks, Pastilla100, for your logical, truthful, very helpful-to-others insight and kind compassion.  You sound like a very nice guy and I wish you nothing but the very best, to be sure!

[Kit]

... in response to Re: My Factual Experiences with LAI in B..., posted by pastilla100 on Aug 6, 2002

Ya I agree. No matter what other people have to say. You have to do your leg work first and see for yourself. Take your time, dont rush as it takes time to get to know someone. Remember that it is your responsibility to weed out the bad ones.

[LatinIntro]

... in response to My Factual Experiences with LAI in Bogot..., posted by Steve on Aug 5, 2002

As with mostly every business, we will always find unsatisfied or unrealistically demanding customers, no matter how hard we try to please him.

Fortunately for us (LAI), the percentage is very low. I admit we do make mistakes but this is not the case this time. With the purpose of not loosing any credibility with potential future clients, I will take time this week to gather some evidence, and I will send our side of the story (along with facts) to anyone interested, since we are sure and confident that we have always proceeded with honesty and integrity.

Thank you,

Nelson Grisales
Owner Latin American Introductions.
nelson@latinintro.com

[Steve]

... in response to Re: My Factual Experiences with LAI in B..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 5, 2002

Yes Nelson, you are absolutely right, when you go back on a promised both you and Lucas have voiced, that certainly makes someone "unsatisfied" as you say, and disillusioned as well.  It's okay to tell the truth, you'll feel better for it.

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: My Factual Experiences with LAI in B..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 5, 2002

I'm sure everyone will be interested to hear both sides of the story.

[LatinIntro]

... in response to Please post the information here in this..., posted by Patrick on Aug 5, 2002

Before I start I would like to make three things clear: 1. It was not my intention to make this statement publicly initially 2. I took my time and made sure that everything I write is supported with facts. 3. I hope somwhow this will turn into a learning experience so all this I spent time on,is not completely a waste of time.

Steve first came to us recommended by Tim around November of 2000. We discussed for 4 months prior to his trip all possible details. I have never in 6 years gone into so much detail with a client as I did with Steve: We exchanged about 60 emails and phone calls back and forth with Steve during those 4 months prior to his trip. I did not mind answering the same questions 10 times because I wanted to make sure Steve had a complete understanding of every single fact (he was one of my first clients since my rupture with LLM and I wanted to build up a happy database of extremely satisfied customers). Steve made the trip to Bogota on March. We even arranged prior to his trip to his request a stationary bike set up in his hotel room, a special soft mattress for his back problem, a newspaper add which run 3 times prior to his arrival, among other things.

Steve ended up staying in Bogota for 4 weeks. We had accomplished our mission with Steve, since he left with a very positive experience. Tim¡¦s recommendation was earned and hopefully Steve would send us more men. This is the letter I received from Steve a few days after his return:

--------------------------------------
Hi Nelson, Thanks so much for writing.  Everything is going wonderfully...I've spoken to Jenny and your mom many times, and I really miss everyone back in Bogota (including you, Lucas, Charlie, Alexandra, Elizabeth, etc.).  Gary Bala and I talked at length over the telephone today, and I couldn't help going on and on about you..."Nelson has wonderful integrity"...."what a great, decent, moral, ethical kind of guy"..."in a business where probably many agencies from Latin America to Central America to Russia to everywhere around the world are phonies, Nelson stands out as the only one with warm, upstanding, ethical integrity, he is the best of the best".....yes, I'm "wearing out the phone lines" from New York to Pennsylvania!!!!! raving about how wonderful you are....also, I have been recommending you to EVERYONE within "earshot", so to speak, men, decent ones, that is, everywhere I possibly can....I hope to be a walking advertisement to you, and help you in any way I can...you are some terrific guy! NELSON, YOU ARE THE BEST, AND YOU DESERVE THE BEST, AND I HOPE YOU ARE SUCCESSFUL IN EVERY WAY IMAGINABLE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL AND GENUINE HEART...I AM FOREVER GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR YOUR KINDNESS. As I say, though I speak to Jenny and Lucy regularly, I miss them, and miss everyone in Bogota...Colombians are so much nicer, warmer, more genuine and wonderful than my fellow Americans...I may be in New York, but in my heart, I feel like an "honorary Colombian"...thanks for everything, including the wonderful J&R hotdogs trip, and I look forward to speaking with you and perhaps seeing you again in the not-too-distant future. Warmly, Steve Wolf
--------------------------------------

Steve had some very nice gestures with my staff: He bought a plane ticket for Lucy, and gave Lucas a car cradle for his baby daughter. I thought these where nice appreciation gestures, since Lucas and Lucy had really worked their tails off for Steve. Just to give you an idea: Steve met between 70 and 100 ladies during his visit. Lucas not only translated for most of them, but would sit with Steve afterwards and review every single interview. Something no other client has ever requested. These reviews would sometimes last an hour or more. Not only did Lucas do this, but he would stay after work hours to help with Steve. Lucas' wife even called me one time very upset, to ask me not to give their home phone number to clients, because she did not appreciate receiving phone calls for Lucas after midnight. I explained to her that Steve would probably be the only client to do such thing. I also thought that Steve's gesture with Lucy was a nice sign of appreciation since Jenny was living at Lucy's house, and Steve spent a lot of time thre, were not only was Lucy translating on her days off., but having them over for breakfast, lunch or dinner

CONTINUED...

[LatinIntro]

... in response to Re: Please post the information here in ..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 11, 2002

Steve went back to the US, and he maintained communication with Jenny through Lucy and Lucas. Lucas approached me one day in June or July to tell me there was problem in Paradise. Lucas informed me that Steve was not happy with his relationship with Jenny.  Steve was upset because he claimed the latest conversations with Jenny where only about money and additionally he was very upset because she was telling him that she was thinking to also spend some time with her mother, which lived close by to Steve (while travelling with a fiancée visa).

Steve is a very persuasive and compelling person when making a presentation (which is one of the reasons we asked him to help us with our video narration), I think he makes his living as a speech writer. After talking with Steve and afterwards with Jenny, Lucas decided that Steve was right; he made up his mind and informed me about the situation. I trust Lucas’ judgement 100% and agreed on whatever decision he made. Steve decided to end his relationship with Jenny and asked for ring back. He asked Lucas to please help him get the ring back. He told Lucas if he could sell the ring and send him the money he would offer him a commission. I was informed after some time that Jenny had not returned the ring back, which made Steve’s case even stronger regarding Jenny’s character. Lucas decided to take Jenny our of the agency and I backed his decision.

It took about 4-6 weeks to get the ring back from Jenny. We had the ring but now needed to get it back to Steve. We took the time to inquire with the different courier services: FedEx, DHL, Servientrega, Titan, etc. and we found out that they charged about $150 - $250 to ship the ring, and some would not even take such a package. Steve was informed of this and then called me directly. Up to this point I had not communicated with Steve directly since he left Colombia.  We went over what happened briefly, and then he asked me to send the ring. I told him I would not pay for the shipping but would instead look for someone to take it back to the states and have the ring mailed form there... It took us about 6 weeks to find someone who would be willing to take upon the responsibility of taking the ring back to the US and sending it to Steve; it finally was received by Steve around October of 2001. Steve did call several times during those 6 weeks when we where trying to find someone, and I admit loosing my patience with him at one point where he insisted that I pay for the shipment of the ring with DHL.

It was about this time, when someone inquired about Jenny, regardless of the fact that Jenny showed up as engaged  (This happens pretty often: clients inquiring about women appearing as engaged. We simplify the process of taking someone out of our program by marking them as engaged). We explained to our client what had happened with jenny but he insisted in meeting with her. We proceeded to contact Jenny, one situation led to the other, and I got to talk to Jenny again. I had never spoken with Jenny personally during the entire incident with Steve. I had left Lucas to handle the situation and as I stated before, trusted his decision. After my conversation with her I was shocked.

[LatinIntro]

... in response to Re: Re: Please post the information here..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 11, 2002

I will try to simplify the story as much as possible: When Jenny met Steve, she had an excellent job working for an Art Gallery in Bogota. The art gallery was renewing Jenny’s contract for 8 months, and Steve asked Jenny to quit the job because he was planning to have Jenny up in the states with the fiancée visa process in 2 or 3 months. He told Jenny he would support her in the meantime. She quit her job. Steve sent her money for the first two months, and then encountered financial difficulties the third month and could not send her money. He states this financial difficulty  in his letters to Jenny, told the same thing to Lucy and Lucas, and I am pretty sure that Gary Bala was told the same. Jenny had expenses to cover, specially the phone bill. She used to call Steve about twice a week for 20 minutes during those 3 months, and used money that Steve sent her to pay for the phone calls. Making calls from Colombia to the states is not cheap. This is why the later conversations where revolving about money.

I was getting a clear picture of the situation, but then Jenny shocked me when she said that money had very little to do with the ending of the relationship. It turns out that Jenny came into knowledge of certain facts that made her think twice of her relationship with Steve. Summarizing this is what Jenny told me:

1. She got disgusted when Steve asked her to go and request from Lucy to take into account the money he had given her for the plane ticket and not charge  Jenny for her expenses. (Jenny was renting a room at Lucy’s house)
2. She got extremely upset when Steve then called her mother in the States, and asked her to chip in with Jenny’s living expenses.
3. She did not appreciate the fact that Steve was not honest to her about his physical appearance, when honesty was something both discussed at length. (Steve wears a toupee and Jenny found out about it)
4. Jenny’s mother met Steve, and had some reservations about him  which she communicated to Jenny. It seems that Steve got upset when Jenny’s mother insisted in taking him home (Steve took the train instead) and Jenny’s mother did not like the way that Steve stared at Jenny’s younger sister.
5. The compelling factor, said Jenny, was regarding Steve’s previous wife. Now Steve told me that his wife had suffered from a mental illness which resulted in a divorce. It turns out he told Tim that she had died of a terminal disease, and he told Jenny that his ex had left him and disappeared. I have to admit that this also spooked me. What kind of person had we been dealing with.

I asked Jenny about the ring. Why didn’t she return it when asked to. Her answer was very simple. She said, I had no interest in the ring whatsoever, but I had to find a way to pay the phone bill and Lucy’s rent and I decided to borrow money on the ring to pay my bills until I could find a job. She also left Lucy’s house to live with a friend for free in the meantime. Finding a job in Colombia is not easy. But she was able to gather the money to get the ring back and bring it to us so we could send it to Steve.
I decided to resign Jenny with the agency with the conviction that she was not at fault in her relationship with Steve. But the story does not end here:

I was wondering what triggered Steve’s posting this past week. It turns out he called Jenny’s family about 7 weeks ago inquiring about jenny. (1 year after the relationship had ended). Jenny’s was surprised by the call but even more surprised when Steven asked her out. Jenny’s sister told Steve she was not interested in him and neither was her sister since she was not engaged to a good man from Tennessee.

[LatinIntro]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Please post the information ..., posted by LatinIntro on Aug 11, 2002

I finally have lost any confidence in Steve. I received the following letter a day after Steve’s posting to my email account:
Dear Mr. Nelson,

I am a dermatologist, and along with my brother, who
is a medical student and some of his friends, we have
been thinking about coming to your agency.  I have
been studying material about South America, from
various tour operators and the kind of women one can
find.  Here in the midwest, a few of us have been
planning a trip to your continent.

I'm a bit concerned, though, about something I read on
one of the discussion forums.  It sounds as though one
of your visitors was very generous to you and your
family, and yet you did not do the right by him.  I'm
rather hesitant, now, to come to your agency because
of what I read.  If someone is so kind to you and your
mother and staff, shouldn't he be treated with
frienship and respect, and consistency of promises?
From my culture (originally from Mumbai, India), we
look upon lack of respect, appreciation, continuation
of good faith and such as a major flaw.  Was it really
worth letting that girl back in the agency when it was
so very wrong, and have people like me and my friends
doing an about face about visiting you?  Is it really
worth hurting your own reputation?  We cannot be
visitors to your agency being suspicious of character,
for this is too, too important, trying to find the
right female.

Dr. Rajesh Muhkerjee

This letter was originated from the following IP [208.242.192.253]. I looked up Steve’s previous letter and funny enough it is the same IP. I am betting if his IP is logged on this site, it will be the same one. Isn’t impersonating a doctor a federal crime? Anyhow, this just convinces me of the type of character we have been dealing with.

Nelson.