New restrictions against Cuba

[Jeff S]

... in response to Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Who said government bureacuracies are logical? The IRS doesn't have to follow the bill of rights - speedy trial, innocent until proven guilty, etc. They can just seize your assets and make you prove you're innocent (and don't think they haven't done exactly that.) Unfortunately some government entities like to make examples of prople, just for the perception of power they like to project. If they decide to they can make you out to be the worst brand of traitor and international criminal possible. You can scream "political prosoner," and join the chorus with arrested Palestinian suicide bombers in training, screaming the same thing. Remember Elian Gonzales - what law did he break to have Janet Reno send in armed troops? How about Ruby Ridge. Randy Weaver committed the most heinous crime of selling a shotgun with the barrel 1/8 inch too short. That was enough for armed troops top surround his home and sniper style assasinate his wife and children. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what you said isn't right, I believe it is. I'm just sayng what the others are: do what you think is right, travel there through a third country and keep your anonymity. Setting out to change the government by example has brought a lifetime of frustration and heartache for some. Quietly blend into the scenery for best results and if you get fined, pay it and say "I'm sorry" while under your breath you're thinking "fu__ off". Just my 2 cents worth.

-- Jeff S/

[robbysanjuan]

... in response to Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

GREAT IDEA! ESPECIALLY AFTER SEPT. 11TH! GO SUPPORT A COMMUNIST DICTORSHIP THAT MURDERED MILLIONS OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE AND HAS A BIOTERRORISM PLAN FOR THE U.S.A. MY UNCLE GOT HIS LAND AND ASSESTS STOLEN FROM CASTRO. HE LOVES THE U.S.A. AND THE LIFE HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO ATTAIN HERE. IF EVERYTHING WAS GREAT THERE, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO GO AND SPEND YOU MONEY, AND TRAVEL FREELY. REMEBER HOW HE BLASTED THE HERMANOS AL RESCATE PLANE (UNARMED, CIVILAN AIRCRAFT)OUT OF THE SKY 4 YEARS AGO. MURDERING THOSE AMERICAN CITIZENS! GO THERE AND CRITIZE ESE BASTARDO CASTRO AND SEE HOW LONG YOU ROT IN THE CUBAN JAIL. YOU TALK SO BAD ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND YET DO NOTHING TO FIGHT FOR THE OPPRESSED CUBAN PEOPLE. THOSE RESTRICTIONS ARE IN PLACE FOR A REASON. REMEMBER HAMLET, LA GENTE CUBANA NO TIENEN LA QUINTA ENMIENDA! CUBA......UN DIA SERAS LIBRE! GENTE COMO TU ME DA ASCO!

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by robbysanjuan on May 19, 2002

You do a good job of presenting the viewpoint opposed to lifting the sanctions.It also sounds like this is a very personal and emmotional issue so I wouldn't expect to be able to change your mind.
I don't think anybody here has any love for Castro.I think we will all be happy when he is overthrown or dies.But the issue is whats best for the Cuban people and should american citizens be harassed for traveling to Cuba.
I don't think Hamlet is supporting a communist dictator by traveling to Cuba.Interaction with Americans will probably hasten a more democratic mind set in the Cuban people.If travel was opened up and there were lots of US tourists this would happen even more.
You bring up an interesting point about your uncle losing his property.Of course I understand why he and you would hate everything about the Castro regime.I would also say that if it looked like the santions would lead to the overthrow of Castro I would support them.But it doesn't appear at all likely that will happen.Change in Cuba will probably be a slower evolution to a more democratic government that in my mind is certain to happen the question is when.After Castro for sure.How much of a hold other communists can keep on Coba I don't know,but I would think it would start to loosen up after Castro.
Its too bad your uncle lost his property,but I think its not likely he will ever get it back.I think this is one of the reasons Cuban exiles want Castro overthrown,so they will get their property back.Not going to happen.
So the question is how much are you willing to hurt the Cuban people out of your hate for Castro,and can you envision at all a Cuba opening up to more Democratic reform through exposure to the United States.I think Jimmy Carter made great headway here in being allowed to talk about freedom and democracy as a trade off for pushing to lift the sanctions.
We can have our differences of opinion here.I think yours and Bush's is not realistic.The santions are not working,are hurting the Cuban people and are not consistent with how we treat other countries like China.They also give Castro a great excuse for why his government is a dismal economic failure.We are doing it to them,its the United States fault,not his stupid Marxist ideas.
And I don't think American Citizens should be penalized for visiting Cuba.
I do respect your opinions as a person who has been directly affected by this even if I do not agree.
Thanks for posting.I'm willing to reconsider my opinion.Convince me.

Pete

[yc]

... in response to Re: Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by robbysanjuan on May 19, 2002

Robby, I agree with you.  Those restrictions are in place for a reason... that reason is Castro not the Cuban people.  There are much possibilities in Cuba, but it will never be fully realized until Castro is gone.  This can be said for any country were terrorist element or radical dictatorship has taken a foothold... Colombia, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Afgahnistan, Palestine etc.  It was not the Cuban people that shoot down that plane, it was Castro.  Americans are not the ones building make-shift rafts putting their lives at risks trying to get to Cuba.  America has its share of problems just like any other country, but one of them is not an overly oppressive dictator government.  Thanks for the post.  You have made a valid point.

[A1A]

... in response to Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Hamlet, I thought of making a short hop over to Cuba last year when I was in Cancun but ran out of time.  The hotel I stayed in advirtised cheap flights and even an overnight cruise package, very inexpensive.  There will never be problems on the Cuban side, they want US dollars coming into Cuba, so they won't stamp your pasport.  I believe as long as you don't make a lot of noise about your trips...like writers putting articles in magazines ..you shouldn't have any problems.  Best wishes and good luck when the time comes to get your novia out.
A1A

[Pete E]

... in response to Suppose I don't pay the fine?, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Hamlet,
I would immagine they could enforce it if they really wanted to,and Bush might be headed in that direction.I believe the lady writer just paid up,maybe after checking out her options.
I am against the law and would like to see it challenged and I am certainly not saying don't go,particularly if you have a novia there.I was just responding to the post saying it was not a big deal.It could be a big deal,and challenging it could be costly.The government has lots of attorneys,you have to pay big $ for yours,unless you get the ACLU or someone on your side.
I hope to go to Cuba someday,but I am not motivated to right now.I saw something on TV the other night that before Castro Cuba was the third most prosperous country in the western hemisphere after the US and Canada.What a place it could be today.What a place it will someday be,maybe 10-20 years or so after they bury their marxist leaders.One of the problems we saw in eastern europe was after years of the government running everything people no longer knew how to take care of theirselves,they looked to the government for their existence,even if a poor existence.Cuba will probably do much better here.
I watched a great Robert Redford movie(forgot the title,Havana or something like that) the other night,he was a gambler in Cuba when Castro took over.He caught one of the last ferries back to Key West,taking his 57 Cadalac convertible with him.
Cuba sounds pretty exciting actually.
Good luck,we could start a legal defense fund for you!

Pete