I am not trying to sell Mexico...

[Alteno]

Hello,

For folks who are jaded and only interested in Colombianas, I say excellent, but don't get on my back for trying to report what I see here in central Mexico. I thought this forum might like to hear from someone actually living in latin America, but according to some on this forum, latin America only includes Colombia.

Perhaps Patrick should change the name of the forum from Latin to Colombian, that would be more appropriate. Sorry to take up such precious bandwidth, I'll just keep my observations on the 'completely square little Indian bodies' (quote from calivet) to myself in the future.

Alteno
http://community.webshots.com/user/gloriayrandy

[BenKramer]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

We got a guy from Santiago Chile that raves about the beautiful women there and has said he has thoughts of starting an agency there. But he says it would not be worth cause the women are so friendly and  open to meeting gringos. I would like to hear more posts from him too.Ben

[HappyInBrazil]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

Although more of the posters on this forum might seem to be from the Cali/Agency path, not all of them.  I think the main interest is in how to learn from your success, so that people can consider it as an option. *IF* they can replicate it.  If you've been reading this forum for a while, you might want to recall what sorts of people have cried This is the Cali Forum before.  I'm glad you found happiness and I hope you will share some ideas with people on how they can follow the same path, but let them decide if it's right for them.

[Ross2]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

Alteno,

I have never been to Mexico so I cannot comment on this subject. However, I need to say that I would place more weight on the opinion of someone who lives in Mexico (like yourself) rather than someone who pays an occasional visit. But, of course, all opinions are helpful.
Your information is interesting and appreciated. Keep it coming.

Regards,
Ross2

[Jebster]

... in response to keep it coming, posted by Ross2 on Mar 14, 2002

Thanks for opening our eyes to new possibilities. Pay no attention the "ambushers" who usually post only when they disagree with something. You have proven that you can find much better women, generally speaking, in any latin country. Colombia certainly has the numbers, but a guy only needs one special lady. And, you can find her in any latin country.

[A1A]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

Randy, I just returned from 5 days in Mexico City and had a great time.  Yes, the traffic and smog sucked but the people I was with certainly made up for it.  Like you, I saw all types of mexicanas, blondes, brunettes, and some great figures.  The girl I was with kept telling me she was going to show me the "true mexico", and I got an education.
We went to the wedding of her daughters best friend, a beautiful, blue eyed blonde, similar to your situation, an upper middle class family.  The girl I was with had a German great grandfather, the european ancestry could be seen in her face, and she has a nice round figure.  I absolutly love the custom of off kissing the cheek of the women you meet, simply fabulous. There is a huge middle class in Mexico City(who do you think drives all those cars?).  Also a huge poor population, which is most visible.  
 I enjoy your posts, and experienced some of the same a little further east. Keep posting.
A1A

[Pete E]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

Randy,
Thanks for the pictures.Gloria is beautifull and looks different from most of the mexican ladies we see in California.Also you are a pretty good looking guy yourself.That plus the fact you were living there helped greatly for you to find someone I think.
A more ordinary looking or older guy with 2 weeks vacation may not have the success you did at all.So I would still recommend Colombia to such a guy.
Mexico seems like a better bet for a place to live than Colombia right now.Or perhaps for a guy who can take several months to explore the country.
Congratualations and thanks for sharing this with us.You certainly did well and opened our eyes to the possibilities.

Pete

[Cali vet]

... in response to I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Alteno on Mar 13, 2002

You can go off in a huff if you like but the point I made all along is that the Mexican woman portrayed on the agency sites and catalogs are for the most part not very appealing compared to colombianas. That's my opinion. Perhaps if those shadow beauties you've refered to would condecend to let their pretty faces be seen on the sites it would be a completely different story. You may find the whole concept of agencies distastefull. That's fine, but the fact is that an awfull lot of people on this board have to or choose to make decisions about where to look for a mate based on what they see on the net. Of course there are beautifull women in Mexico. Why wouldn't there be! But the important question to board readers is: are THOSE women, not the ones portrayed by the agencies, disposed to meet, date and marry men from North America and how, short of moving to Mexico like yourself, do you accomplish that.

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: I am not trying to sell Mexico..., posted by Cali vet on Mar 13, 2002

We've been advertising there for years and despite the much larger population in Mexico compared to Colombia, the response from Colombianas dwarfs that of the Mexicanas.  I think it's just a more conservative culture and not many ladies are willing to join a marriage agency.  Probably also has something to do with it being a better living environment than Colombia.  While the income levels may not be much different, the Mexicans don't have a decades old civil conflict going on like the Colombians do.

[colman]

... in response to It's tough getting Mexicanas to join an ..., posted by Patrick on Mar 13, 2002

Obviously my friend Patrick, you have not heard of Chiapas and its decades-long battle of Native American Independence. Also, how many Mexicans are so "proud" of their Aztec past but are embarass and put down people  who are more "Native American". Such hyprocricy(sp?). Also, an independent study has establish Mexico as the most "corrupt" government of all levels(city, state, federal)in Latin America. The United States as well as the world are finally realizing that many, many, mucho, alot, enormous, gargantuous, bountiful of people have sacrifice their lives to rid Colombia of the guerillas and drug-dealers that plague that country.---Colman

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: It's tough getting Mexicanas to join..., posted by colman on Mar 14, 2002

There's got to be some reason why Mexico, with a population of 102 million people has maybe 1/10th the number of ladies joining agencies as Colombia, with a population of 40 million.

I don't think Chiapas affects many people other than those in that specific area, so it won't have the same impact on the general population's desire to leave that the on-going decades old problem in Colombia does.  The very fact that so many have died in Colombia in the conflict is most likely part of the reason why the women there are more willing to join an agency and marry a foreigner.

I think another part of the disparity in agency turn out between Mexico and Colombia is that Mexico tends to be more conservative.

The "snowball effect" has been discussed here previously.  Agencies found fertile ground in Colombia, and as some women married and kept in contact with friends and family back home, other women heard about it and decided that marrying an American/Canadian/Whatever really was a good option.  As more ladies do it, more ladies hear the good stories and decide to do it themselves.

I suspect the discrepancy in agency turn out is a mix of all three of these things.

[colman]

... in response to Re: Re: It's tough getting Mexicanas to ..., posted by Patrick on Mar 14, 2002

Patrick, your explanation of Chiapas not affecting other people other than those in that specific area and not having the same impact as the guerillas of Colombia have is logical and true. I agree with you to this point, however the point of Mexico being more "conservative" than Colombia leaves me dumbfounded. Listen Patrick "all" Latin American countries tend to be "conservative" including Brazil, Puerto Rico, and Colombia.  The difference is that Mexico is an EXTREMELY "Machista" country. If you dont believe me I bet my life that half of the 102 million Mexicans will agree with me(just make sure you ask the right gender-lol). You see my friend, to me, when someone say Mexican ladies tend to be conservative, it has a utterly differnt meaning to me.  Many of these "conservative" women simply have given up on their losing battle versus "Machistas" and machismo culture that dominate Mexico in 1700, 1800, 1900, and 2002. Colombia, Brazil, Puerto Rico have women that have evolved to form strong, independent, LOYAL women to men who want the same. You see, men in general get excited and get their juices flowing(lol) when they hear traditional, conservative women longing for a North American partner.  I think differntly-- I want a strong, smart, sassy, women who is not afraid to be opinionated and sweet at the same time--this type of personality quite frankly is a turn-on for me. I assure you Patrick that this type of women would be more easily found in Colombia and Brazil versus Mexico---but to each their own.---Colman

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It's tough getting Mexicanas..., posted by colman on Mar 15, 2002

I agree.  Perhaps saying Mexican women are "more conservative" is not a good way of expressing it.  Yes, Mexico is king of machismo and it affects the women.  I remember incidents like the one when a lady and I were lost in Ensenada.  We were going to ask someone for directions and when I suggested we stop and ask two ladies nearby, she said "no, let's find a man."  Being in such a macho culture, I think the ladies have a tougher standard to live up to.  They're more likely to believe that "good girls" are virgins etc. and are much less likely to join an agency because of the stigma attached to it in their culture.

My saying that Mexican women are more conservative doesn't mean that I think Colombian are not conservative relative to American women.  They are.  And keep in mind that I myself married a woman from Cali.  Though she is far from being a MOB stereotype (i.e. subserviant) she is definitely much more conservative than the American women I've dated.

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: It's tough getting Mexicanas to ..., posted by Patrick on Mar 14, 2002

I don't agree that the colombianas' interest in joining agencies has anything to to do with people dying in the conflict. The city girls are pretty much removed from the vicissitudes of the guerilla war. I think it's 97% economic circumstances, lack of work that weigh on them big time and maybe 3% concern about street crime. They almost all have family or friends in Miami or Queens who report back that they have great employment opportunities in the U.S. so it is the idylic destination. I have however found in talking with young well educated university students a strong resentment and distrust of "U.S. life" and if they are interested in foreigners at all their choice is Europeans. Of course you don't find those girls at the agencies. As far as the girls we meet in agencies go bottom, bottom line is economics.

[Edge]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It's tough getting Mexicanas..., posted by Cali vet on Mar 14, 2002

Cali-Vet, I also tend to discount the problems with the guerillas as motivation to leave or join an agency because the people are more or less used to this problem as it has been around for so many years..It does not generally impact the people in the major cities..I know my wife feels safer here in the U.S. now, but her family is still there leading their lives there, much as they have for many years.

The economy used to be much better in Cali, I hate to say why, but this truth should be told..After Medellin and you know who got taken out, the focus shifted to Cali and it brought alot of money into town..There were more businesses created and jobs spread.  Back 6-7 years ago and the whole idea of leaving Colombia to marry a gringo was pretty foreign.  The women did not think this was possible and the agency scene was not that prevalent.  As the guerrillas have taken more and more of this business away from the traffickers in Cali years past, the economy has gone down. This coupled with the local Cali government being inefficient at creating jobs and the economy has continued to slide.

Meanwhile, the agency scene continued to grow.  Women started to hear about successful marriages and they actually had a choice from having to marry a Caleño and their machista attitudes.  There are different motivations for different women.  Some of these women have children, which many gringos are willing to accept.  My wife has a cousin with two children who married an immigration lawyer in Memphis who is in his 50's.  She is about 35.  Their marriage has gone well so my wife was willing to look at marrying a gringo as an option versus an unfailthful Caleño she left.  Granted she would have to leave her family, who she dearly loves, but she knows she can visit them any time.  She also has a high opinion of the U.S. and our quality of life..

My wife has a friend that has been with a Caleño for 8 years and the guy will not marry her.  She drew a line in the sand and told me him she wants to be married or needs to move on.  The guy told her that he just cannot afford to marry her.  He does not come from a family that has money and he is barely getting by himself..So they split.  She is thinking of going back to him but meanwhile, she has found out that he is also the father to a 3 year old from another woman..And so it goes..

I think it is a combination of the agency infrastructure being there, the bad economy, the poor prospects with Colombian men and the generally good reputation that AM can be good husbands that motivate the women to join agencies..

I hear that joining an agency is now as popular as ever in Cali..

I think that the culture in Mexico is more conservative and maybe they do not think as highly of American culture.