God and Latin women

[Canadian Guy 31]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001

Hi El Diablo, you have made comments regarding church history that are not based in the actual history of the events. If you don't mind I am going to email you my response so I can keep the forum on topic.

Bye for now,
Canadian Guy 31

[El Diablo]

... in response to For El Diablo, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 15, 2001


Listen Canadian Guy, I'm pretty careful with my words.  I mentioned only a few events in time that are not particularly controversial or difficult to confirm.  Most Protestants do not deny that there were early church council's or even that the council of Hippo was the first church council to proclaim the new testament canon.  St. Ireanous is a real person in history, he lived in the second century, he is referenced in other peoples writings and he himself wrote what are considered classic writings in Christian culture.  

Protestantism is a particular branch of Christianity that broke off from the western portion of what is most often referred to as Catholicism today.  Luther who is considered the primary father of Protestant thought, was a 16th century Augustinian monk.  I believe he was still a Priest at the time he nailed his 95 complaints against the door of the church.

Anyway, I'll read your email but I don't believe the events I mentioned in history are disputed or particularly controversial.

El Diablo

[Craig]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001

Dear Sir I take exception to your writing. The beliefs held by the Catholic church are based on interpretation's which Catholic's believe are inspired by God. No different then any other church or religion. As a Catholic I believe that we are the oldest Christian church in existence, and the most accurate. The Catholic faith is a very important aspect of a Latin's life. If you believe otherwise, you need to do more research.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001


Canadian Guy wrote;

"" I think that certain Roman Catholic teachings could have become a hinderance to many girls in Columbia due to the fact that many Roman Catholic teachings have become more incorrect over the last few hundread years then teachings that are actually based in the Bible. Therefore as you said,
many of these girls do not claim outwardly any strong specific faith anymore perhaps out of their own confusion that they found in studying the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. ""

El Diablo responds;  (don't read if you are offended by religious discussions)

While there is a growing Evangelical and Fundamentalist movement in Colombia, the hindrance I was speaking of was not the one you speak of.  The culture is becoming more and more secular and thus I find I have less and less in common with your typical Calena for instance.

Furthermore what you state as FACT is at best open to debate.  You are projecting your own religious traditions and ideas onto a people with a different tradition and one that extends back further into history than your own.  The new testament was not put together by a bunch of Baptists or evangelicals, Martin Luther and Calvin are fifteen centuries removed from these times.  

Historicly it was a collection of letters written by some of the early followers of Jesus.  All the letters were written after the ascension and the last like Revelation are thought among scholars to be written at the tail end of the first century.

The early church, collected the letters and protected them from those who might use them for their own purposes.  One of the first attempts at codifying or establishing a canon of what the church believed were inspired letters, was by St. Irenaeus.  He was the Bishop of Lyons and lived in the second century.  His proposed canon did not contain all the books that are contained today however.  The church did not make any official proclamations about what books constituted scripture until the Church Council of Hippo, in the fourth century.  The council was made up of predominately Eastern Bishops, and it confirmed the canon decree made by Pope Demascus some years earlier.  The church that existed at this time was not that different than the church that exists today.  The same structure was in place that is in place today.  The traditions that exist today existed for the most part then and a person could easily confirm these things by reading the collections of the early church fathers.

In the history of Christianiy, Protestantism is a relatively new branch.  The fathers of the movement, primarily Luther and Calvin, come at Christianity from very different perspectives.  I'm not clear about the history of the fundamentalist or evangelical Christian movements but my guess is that they are primarily a 19th and 20th century phenomenon.  A good evangelical would have very little in common with a good Lutheran or Episcapalian, heck they'd probably accuse them of being Catholic wannabees. (-:

Anyway, I don't particularly want to argue scripture with you or which church is more Christian and which is not, these arguments rarely go anywhere and prove little.  I did want to point out that the history of scripture and it's interpretation, didn't start with evangelicals and fundamentalists.

El Diablo

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: God and Latin women, posted by El Diablo on Aug 14, 2001

If anything, for me being a practicing Catholic has been much more of a hindrance than a help. "

Now I find that interesting.  Why is that?  I would think it would help you in many ways.

Regards

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Raptor on Aug 14, 2001


The women in the agencies of Cali while being Catholic by birth are predominately secular in their beliefs. Very few people from the younger generations practice their Faith, whatever it may be.  I'm not being judgemental so much as stating what is readily appearant and easily seen when you spend more than a week or two in Colombia.  It's a myth in my opinion to think that Colombia is more religious or traditional than the United States.  There are some left-over cultural signs of religion in Colombia, but there is very little behind them.  A sign is an outward expression of an inward reality, but the inward reality doesn't really exist anymore.  

If one half of a couple is nominally Catholic or nominally Christian and the other half is practicing and a believer, it's not particularly helpful.  In my opinion it's better to find a mate who shares your core beliefs whatever they may be.

El Diablo

[Canadian Guy 31]

... in response to God and Latin women, posted by Raptor on Aug 14, 2001

I am glad to hear the story about the woman you mentioned.

I am a male side of the example. I could not accept to marry
a woman who was an atheist, what would my relationship be built upon?

The basis of being an Atheist denys God's existence, any knowable meaning of life, and any moral or spiritual absolutes. These are the kinds of ideas that a marriage covenant is built upon.

Canadaian Guy 31

[Richard Smith]

... in response to Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001


 Phooey!  There are plenty of Latin women who don't care about religion.  Maybe the majority.  The ones who do will let you know quickly.  I even met one of the evangelical ones who didn't care about my beliefs on God.  I just didn't make an issue of it.  The deal in my family is everybody get to believe what they want.  

   My comments to the remarks made are as follows:

"I am a male side of the example. I could not accept to marry a woman who was an atheist, what would my relationship be built upon?"

How about trust, love, and other things that don't involve bizarre beliefs and strange concepts.

"The basis of being an Atheist denies God's existence, any knowable meaning of life, and any moral or spiritual absolutes. These are the kinds of ideas that a marriage covenant is built upon."

The kind of moral and spiritual absolutes that the Jim and Tammy Baker marriage covenant was based on I suppose.  Fortunately, she had the good sense to dump her con hubbie.  The concept of God's existence has nothing to do with "meaning of life" and "spiritual absolutes".  The most moral people in history have either been atheists, closet atheists, or the mildly religious who are liberal and flexible in their beliefs.  As an education for our Canadian friend, this includes Thomas Jefferson (who explicitly wrote to John Adams that he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ),  Thomas Pain, and Abraham Lincoln (mildly religious but with little use for hypocrite churchgoers).  All of these men where accused of being Atheists in their days.  This also includes most of the Swedish who have little use for religion, dogmatic or otherwise, but have a low crime rate and the most honest government in the world.    

"Canadian Guy 31  (Anonymous)"

Have you ever noticed that there always seems to be an inverse relationship between someone professing to take a moral position and their actual state of morality.  I just noticed that in order to state your strong convictions you chose to remain anonymous.  Kind of like Jimmy Swaggart preaching against women who wear shorts.

   

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Richard Smith on Aug 14, 2001

Hey Richard, Fred or whever you are.

Why are you so angry?

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Richard Smith on Aug 14, 2001

". The most moral people in history have either been atheists, closet atheists, or the mildly religious who are liberal and flexible in their beliefs. As an education for our Canadian friend, this includes Thomas Jefferson (who explicitly wrote to John Adams that he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ), Thomas Pain, and Abraham Lincoln (mildly religious but with little use for hypocrite churchgoers). All of these men where accused of being Atheists in their days. This also includes most of the Swedish who have little use for religion, dogmatic or otherwise, but have a low crime rate and the most honest government in the world. "

Dude,
LOL..
This drible is just outright false.

I suggest you stop the propaganda and admit that you do not fit in with Latin culture.

An atheist such as yourself has little hope of finding a latin women.  Perhaps you should look at Russian women.

I further suggest that you move to this Sweden and find Utopia.  LOL.......

[Craig]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Richard Smith on Aug 14, 2001

I think it was Christ who said it's foolish to give pearls to swine.

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Craig on Aug 14, 2001

Craig,

Wow that is Good!!

Regards

[Canadian Guy 31]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Richard Smith on Aug 14, 2001

Mr "Smith" you said:

"Have you ever noticed that there always seems to be an inverse relationship between someone professing to take a moral position and their actual state of morality. I just noticed that in order to state your strong convictions you chose to remain anonymous."

Gee Mr "Smith", your post proclaimed many of your proclaimed absolutes as well and I was kind of wondering if you would be consistent in the end to your proclaimed enlightened state of morality.

Here is your "moral" and "openly disclosed" profile Mr "Smith":

Profile for Richard Smith
Member Since: May, 2001          
Last posted: August 10, 2001          
Total posts: 22          
From: Undisclosed  
Age: Undisclosed  
Interest Undisclosed  
Status Undisclosed  
E-mail Undisclosed  
This member did not provide a self-description    

Gee, Mr. "Smith" want to pass on your address and phone number in there too since you were so honest in being so open about the rest of you!

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001

I could not agree more with you.  You seem to be well grounded and should have no trouble find a women who wants what you want.  It's refreshing to know that quality men are looking for quality women.  It's not always the case.

Regards