Poem for the Tax payers

[Ray]

... in response to Re: LOL, posted by Dingo on Jun 20, 2003

And be careful also Lori, or Mr. Dingo will sick the big bad "White Republicans" on you ROTFLMGDAO!

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Poem for the Tax payers, posted by William on Jun 19, 2003

William Buckley said it bast in his "Parable of The Tenth Man"

By William Buckley
Published April 27, 2001

Every night, 10 men met at a restaurant for dinner. At the end of the meal, the bill would arrive. They owed $100 for the food that they shared. Every night they lined up in the same order at the cash register. The first four men paid nothing at all. The fifth, though he grumbled about the unfairness of the situation, paid $1. The sixth man, feeling generous, paid $3. The next three men paid $7, $12 and $18, respectively. The last man was required to pay the remaining balance of $59.

The 10 men were quite settled into their routine when the restaurant threw them into chaos. It announced that it was cutting down its prices: Now it would charge only $80 for dinner for the 10 men. This reduction wouldn't affect the first four men -- they would continue to eat for free. The fifth person decided to forgo his $1 contribution to the pool, and the sixth contributed $2. The seventh man deducted $2 from his usual payment and now paid $5. The eighth man paid $9, the ninth, $12, leaving the last man with a bill of $52.

Outside of the restaurant, the men compared their savings, and angry outbursts began to erupt. The sixth man yelled, "I only got $1 out of the total reduction of $20, and he" -- pointing to the last man -- "got $7." The fifth man joined in the protest. "Yeah! I only got $1 too. It is unfair that he got seven times more than me." The seventh man cried, "Why should he get a $7 reduction when I only got $2?" The first four men followed the lead of the others: "We didn't get any of the $20 reduction. Where is our share?"

The nine men formed an outraged mob, surrounding the 10th man. The nine angry men carried the 10th man up to the top of a hill and lynched him. The next night, the nine remaining men met at the restaurant for dinner. But when the bill came, there was no one to pay it.

Well, parables do have their weaknesses. But they can be useful. Mrs. Clare Boothe Luce had the habit, in search of analytical clarity, of chopping off seven zeroes to illustrate her points. Thus the population of the world was 800 (read 8 billion) and that of the United States, 30 (not 300 million).

By these devices, it is true, clarifications are more nimbly arrived at. As the parable above informs us, 10 percent of the American people (the 10th dinner guest) pay 59 percent of all the taxes. The lowest 40 percent pay none. The fifth quintile, 1 percent; the sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth, respectively, 3, 7, 12 and 18 percent of the taxes.

The parable, of course, then brings in the drama: The proposed tax reduction of President Bush would reduce income taxes by a total of 20 percent, and the benefits of that reduction are distributed along the lines suggested for the 10 diners.

And yes, the protests arise, reaching maximum volume in the matter of relieving the 10th man from his customary contribution of $59 toward the common meal, to a contribution of $52.

OK, but the drama is then taken to what one might call a fourth act, which is one too many. The 10th diner isn't going to be lynched, because his survival is too necessary to the other nine diners. What they will do is attempt to diminish the reduction in his allocation of his benefits from the reduced dinner price and spread it among themselves. They'd like to see the 10th man continue to pay 59 percent of all taxes. That way it doesn't hurt.

Ah, but the parable writer obviously believes that it would hurt, in the long run. Because if that 10th diner tires, or is crushed into diminished productivity, he won't have the $59 to contribute to the pool, and that would be very, very inconvenient. Perhaps even life-threatening. If the restaurant has to go without that critical subsidy from the 10th diner, it might just have to reduce the rations paid out.

Granted, if the parable were refined even further, it would have to ask, What was it that caused the 10th man to be so obliging in the first place? Were they threatening to lynch him if he didn't put out? Did the 10th man plot to protect himself? Was he the critical voter in Florida in November 2000?

[Ray]

... in response to Not in your wildest imagination, posted by Jeff S on Jun 19, 2003

Makes perfect sense to me Jeff.

But I doubt that you'll EVER convince a die-hard liberal (LOL)

Ray

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Poem for the Tax payers, posted by William on Jun 19, 2003

Are you one of those whining liberals who believe that it should be against the law to work hard and get rich in this country???

Do you also believe that those who don't pay taxes should get a "tax cut"?

Just curious... :-)

Ray

[William]

... in response to Robin Hood?, posted by Ray on Jun 19, 2003

Not a whinner but a middle of the road person who has his eyes open.
Bush and his right wing buddies have zeroed out inheritance taxes. Only applied to millionaires anyway.
They are reducing the capital gains taxes again, too.
Secret plans to zero that out also.
No income tax on dividends, either.
What do millionaires do that DOES get taxed??
With the 'reward the rich' tax plans comming out of this White House, only middle income folks will be paying taxes.
This means that work, (i.e. wages and salaries) carries the major burden of the income tax. The rich, who benefit most from the American system, pays little of nothing.
Of course, large campaign contributions are expected in exchange for these tax breaks.

Oh, bye the bye, the working poor, who pay little, if any, income taxes include the military that did a wonderful job
in Iraq. They do pay taxes, just not income taxes.

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: Robin Hood?, posted by William on Jun 20, 2003

Love him or hate him, this is from the Census Bureau. Can you honestly say this is fair?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/top_50__of_wage_earners_pay_96_09__of_income_taxes.guest.html

[William]

... in response to Try this link, posted by surfscum on Jun 20, 2003

Typical Rush, long on wind and short on facts.
Where are the actual numbers? What is the 50% dividing line?
Since the truely poor pay no income tax, that skews the figures.
He sites the fortune 400, but doesn't mention how many millionaires don't pay any taxes at all.
The figures he does site are all pre-Bush tax cuts as well.
With three, so far, tax cuts aimed at the wealthy, the rich pay less now than they did then.
Let's not forget that well paid accountants will tell their rich clients how to 'adjust' their income stream to avoid even the taxes they would otherwise pay.

Of course, Bush allies have also blocked the rules/laws to stop corporations from opening a mail drop in some Caribbean  island to avoid corporate taxes as well.

Lower ranking soldiers with wife and a kid or two, are eligible for food stamps and pay little, if any, income tax.
The working poor still pay SS taxes and Medicare taxes and, in most states, state income taxes.
Taxes start at $5 of income, after ducks and exemptions.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Robin Hood?, posted by William on Jun 20, 2003

Do you really believe all of that communist nonsense that your are spewing?

And don't tell me that the military doesn't pay income taxes! I spent 20 years in the military training to kill commies and I paid more than my share of income taxes (ROFL)

Tip of the Day: Get your facts straight before you post!

Ray

[Dingo]

... in response to What a bunch of ignorant lies..., posted by Ray on Jun 20, 2003

Boy you just can't get along can you Ray?

William was correct about everything he said.
This just goes to show how lost you really are.

According to Rush 96% of the total taxes are paid by the top 50%, he then goes on to say the top 50% starts out
at $26,000 for a couple, I don't know what country
him or you live in but $26K does NOT make one rich here
in the good ole US of A.

More importantly the REAL rich, those individuals making
over 200K a year or more can afford the high priced accountants
to help them AVOID the big share of taxes.  The little guy
is more concerned with getting by and getting their rapid refund.

Finally, Rush's figures don't say what % of the "real"
richs income (200K or more) goes towards taxes compared to
what percentage the average Joe pays in taxes relative to his income.

Yes Ray, I to served in the US Military and you are right
we DID pay MORE than our fair share of taxes.
That is exactly William's point.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: What a bunch of ignorant lies..., posted by Dingo on Jun 20, 2003

Oh, I can get along just fine there Dingo. It seems that YOU are the one with the serious hang-ups! :-)

Ray

[lswote]

... in response to Robin Hood?, posted by Ray on Jun 19, 2003

Work hard and get rich?  No I don't think it should be against the law.  Take jobs overseas where people have different economies and can work for much less without starving, while Americans who wanted enough pay to not starve in OUR economy and no longer have jobs, so that you can get rich?  Yeah I think that should be against the law.

[nealt]

... in response to Re: Robin Hood?, posted by lswote on Jun 19, 2003

i smoke and cigs cost $0.75 Cents in the pi same brand made in usa they cost $3.75 both made and shipped from usa explaian that one

[Lori]

... in response to Re: Re: Robin Hood?, posted by nealt on Jun 19, 2003

maybe America is trying to save lives by over taxing ciggs. It's a good thing. So, of course, smoking in a country other than the U.S. would probably be cheaper.

One thing I did when I went to Vietnam was to totally quit smoking. I have not smoked since. I say, if you can quit, then quit NOW!  Do it for the wife you brought to America. Do it for your kids. Don't make them have to care for a person who is dying from breathing problems.
I've been there. I have buried my grandmother, grandfather, aunts, uncles, great aunts, great uncles, and we all smoked it up at there funerals---go figure!.
I love ya--that's why I am harping--LORI

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Robin Hood?, posted by lswote on Jun 19, 2003

It's always about some evil person grabbing his filthy lucre from the sweat of the poor worker's brow. Right out of the thoeries of Marx.

Let me tell you how it REALLY is. Your customer - in my case the big three automakers, tells you that in order to get the contract, you have to reduce your prices 5% every year for the next five. In Chrysler's case they automatically deduct it from the bill. You bill them $1.00 and they pay you $0.95. So you build new equipment, automate, streamiline everything you can, whip the workers harder, whatever, just to hold your head above water because next year, you KNOW it's going down another 5%, and the year after that, and the year after that.

Then your worker's compensation insurance bill comes in, DOUBLED this year! Oops, the year's up on the lease, here's a 20% increase. Out here in California, our brilliant liberal Democrat governor signs long term electricity contracts for nearly three times what the rest of the country is paying - electric bill +50%. Now our radical left state assembly passes a bill saying employees get 6 weeks off with pay if a member of their family is ill. Naturally everyone's grandmother is suddenly in dire straits, so some go home with pay. So I have to hire temps to maintain keep production at the same level - same production, more costs. Time for a wage increase - same production, more cost again. Another notice from the state arrives. What's this? an tax assessment for clean air? I don't have any machines that create

What's my option? Run the stockholders out of money then shut it down in a couple years? Close the doors today and send everyone home? Raise my prices anyway and have my customers put the parts out for competitive bid (probably in China anyway) or look to cut a few costs (labor, rent, taxes, government add-ons, electricity, etc) by moving some unskilled labor jobs across the border, while keeping the majority of the skilled labor jobs here and the doors open for another year or two? What would you do?

It's really easy to fantasize about fat cats smoking big cigars and sipping single malt in the country club bar and patting each other on the back - the movies make that abundantly clear - but it's about as real as their depictions of every 24 year old petite blonde with big hooters being able to kick the crap out of any mafia hitman or ex-marine bodyguard they come across.

- Jeff S.

[lswote]

... in response to Yet another simplistic viewpoint., posted by Jeff S on Jun 19, 2003

No more simplistic than Ray trying to say the liberals are upset with a man working hard and getting rich.  Plenty of examples where people are getting rich not by working hard but by working angles on people who ARE working hard.  Bush's Enron buddy Kenny boy comes to mind.