My method idea...critique please

[Richard]

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

There are some people involved in the MOB pursuit that maybe should not be.  Perhaps I'm one of them.  (Some people will remember my last trip a year ago and how things didn't work out for me. The trip report is in the archives from May 2002.)  Anyone who posts a story like this isn't going to look good.  However, I think that these need to be told.  The biggest clue I had that something wasn't right with my relationship was what I was reading here on Planet Love.  

I look back and still wonder why it was so hard for me to walk away from her, but it was.  The more trip reports, stories etc that are posted make it easy for people like me that aren't good at this to realize that something is wrong and that they need to take a good close look at what they are doing.

I understand, or think I understand, the point some people are trying to make: that the bad stories make everybody involved in this pursuit look bad.  On the other hand, if someone else reads the disaster stories and doesn't marry someone they shouldn't, I think that something good has come of it.

[WmGo]

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

No,your not the only one.

It is a strange mystery.
That people, both men
and women, will react to
abuse and disrespect the
way Travis did. It makes
no sense. It reveals
how much mankind needs,wants
and desires to be loved.
So much so that with some people
the need overrides their own
sense of self respect.

Sad but true.

WmGOZeroTolerance

[Zink]

... in response to Thats a fact...., posted by LP on May 22, 2003

why I'm sticking up for Travis on this one but... I see people doing what he did all the time. Not just in the MOB scene. You know I'm lower class scum. It gives me an interesting outlook on things. I see guys and girls who seem pretty decent marrying nasty things on a regular basis. And a few months down the line they're scared and beat to h3ll wondering what went wrong. The ability to ignore the world around us is a very common trait. While admitting he screwed up doesn't make Travis noble, at least he's honest. I'd rather associate with an honest screw up than a succesful liar.

His story is sad and the fact that you're right about him being responsible is even sadder but maybe when somebody else reads it they'll see some of the similarities in their own situation. And that might be enough to make the big head start working and get them out of it before they get seriously messed. So I figure Travis can be an example for the rest of us. Sometimes we need bad examples.

[Stan B]

... in response to I'm not sure..., posted by Zink on May 22, 2003

Travis could have gone the route of that guy that started that hate group and blamed his failures on the woman he married and the church that she attended. If you remember he stayed married for 2 years and when she got the green card she smashed his car in front of the INS office, told him that she wanted a divorce and walked away laughing.
At least Travis's self induced anestisia wore off after 60 days of marriage and he retook control of his life and is willing to admit his failures.
And if your worried about what others think when you enter into a MOB relationship, then don't play the game until you grow a set of your own.

[LP]

... in response to also, posted by Stan B on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...he's not honest, nor do I wish to beat on him. All I'm saying is he *is* a bad example and people who are unable to see that or control themsleves in the face of such signs shouldn't be involved.

As for what other's think, I've pointed out before that some of us need to consider it, and for very valid reasons.Obviously you didn't, based on your actions. (lol, a good thing too.) Your attitude is no surprise, all things considered.

Apparently the position you hold in the hotel/food service (or whatever) biz in Maui, as well of the quality of the people you associate with, is uneffected by it. You might consider thats not the case for everybody.

[Safari]

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

Naturally, all posts I ever read get a grain of salt.  But I'm glad to hear
both from those who have had success, to find characteristics that led to
it, and from those who have been burned, to know what traps to watch
out for.

I eventually want to spend a lot of time over there, because I also think
the face-to-face time is critical.  I find women can choose to be adept
liars through words, but their body language always reveals the truth.

[Zink]

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

Actually, Ken, I thought Travis's advice was sound. He is suffering from the after effects of his experience but doesn't seem as bent out of shape as some. But like anything else, take it with a grain of salt. I think Safari has a good idea with going there and living and meeting real people. I've found a significant difference in the attitudes of ordinary Russians and the agency girls. Your advice is very good but Travis's warning shuld heeded also. Most young girls are exactly that and may not be serious. I don't think they are all evil, conniving scammers, but it's not that hard to find that type at times. Safari doesn't sound like he's ready for the 100 yard dash to marriage either. He should go there date a few women and learn what it's really like to be with RWs before he gets married. Hands on experience beats all the best advice.

[Alfred]

... in response to Re: Be careful who you listen to, posted by Zink on May 22, 2003

Actually, both Ken C and Travis make sense. This is Planet Love at its best: advise and dissent, but no bs.

[Travis]

... in response to Be careful who you listen to, posted by KenC on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by Travis]

I tried very hard to imply that it was not ALL women, but merely the women that I have met. I know there are exceptions, and I'm glad yours is one of them but the fact is that MOST, not all women there as here are not ready for marriage at that age, or rather don't really want the constraints of it yet.

[Travis]

... in response to Re: Be careful who you listen to, posted by Travis on May 22, 2003

[This message has been edited by Travis]

nt

[hockeybrain]

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

Get away from the big cities.

[Zink]

... in response to My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 20, 2003

I also considered doing that and almost did. But what I ended up opting for was taking 20-28 day long vacations as often as I could in Russia. I haven't dated as many women as some of the guys but I have spent a fair amount of time meeting people there. I'm gearing up for my next trip and don't have much time but if you want to chat send me an e-mail. I'd be glad to share some of what I've learned.

[Safari]

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Zink on May 20, 2003

At my age, I am considering this a long term process, firstly because I
want to be relatively competent in Russian beforehand.  I want to get as
much culturally out of my future trip as I can.  Also my finances for the
moment couldn't support all-out vacations, much less the whole
shebang, so I see teaching as a way to make the trip pay for itself and
really get into the grain of Russia.

I've read some places that body language works differently there, for
example eye contact and smiling.  Is this largely true?  How receptive
were the people, particularly the women, meeting you, and where did
you meet them?

[Zink]

... in response to Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Safari on May 21, 2003

I started searching just over three years ago when I was 26. I also wasn't worried about a long term approach. I'm young and didn't need to be married by the end of next month. I nearly bankrupted myself with my frst girlfriend and the trips to be with her. Too many in one year. I live like a Russian while I am there. That means that my biggest expense is my plane tickets. My in Russia costs are usually less than $500 per month. That includes apartment(averages $200 for a month for a tourist), local sight seeing, food(mostly at at home or with my friends. Not many restaurant meals), gifts for my family and other incidentals. I use buses and marshrutkas(big taxis) and rarely use ordinary taxis except later at nights.

Last summer I met a British guy about our age who was teaching English in Vladivostok. He enjoyed it but after 9 months there he was getting tired of it. I was considering it also as a way to stay there for longer. I decided not to because I have my own business here and can make more money, more easily in Canada. I was considering signing up for a TESOL correspondance course. I've never taught and thought maybe it would improve my abilities. I have a link to this course if you're interested. It's available ll over the US and Canada. You won't get rich teaching in Russia. But you should be able to make enough to support yourself and you will definitely meet many people. The real money in teaching there is if you can become a private tutor for someone. Depending on the teacher's skill and the student's income some tutors do okay money wise. But in Russia it's still common to trade work for food or services.

Eye contact. Staring is not considered as rude as it is here. But most of the time people's eyes will sweep over you in a group and not really focus. I've found that when doing business never smile. But if talking to friends or close aquaintances Russians smile and laugh as much as we do. My Russian friends have a very similar sense of humour to myself. The ladies appreciate it when a man pays attention to them. They don't dress like that unless they want attention. The ladies I was with usually pointed out especially attractive or interesting women on the street for me. I never noticed a huge difference in the body language other than the fact that many RWs are very sensual and graceful. Some ooze sexuality but it isn't an invitation to jump on them. It's just their natural way of being.

Most of the ladies I met were very receptive at our first meeting. They usually wanted to do all kinds of extra things for me such as organizing trips and showing me the sights. I usually introduced myself to the ladies over the net and then made plans to meet them in their home cities. Other than my first girlfriend I met them at an easily accessed public area and we walked, talked and found a nearby cafe to visit more. A couple times I was invited home quite quickly for tea or a meal. But I wouldn't say that this was common. And it was usually the mother of the girls that I was trying to date that invited me over. They wanted to check me out too.

Most of the Russians I met liked me a lot. They call me Êàíàòñêèé Êîâáîé. It's what I am. They were always willing to help me and had lots of questions about my life and Canada. The only bad Russians I met were involved with dating agencies in Volgograd and the militsia. I've even had great visits with some groups that other people have posted as being dangerous and scary(ie. Armenian cabbies in Sochi and mafia bootleggers in Volgograd). If you keep your eyes open and your nose clean Russia isn't that bad. But if you want trouble it will find you in a heartbeat and will more likely be more than you can handle. Russians are a passionate people and easily provoked. But if you stand up for yourself and aren't the cause of trouble they will help you. Most seem to be decent, down to earth people.

That got longer than I'd planned on. It's hard for me to give short concise answers when talking about Russia. It's a large country with many different layers to talk about.

[Safari]

... in response to Re: Re: My method idea...critique please, posted by Zink on May 21, 2003

Without eye contact or smiling, is there some sort of other "green light"
they give off, or can you just approach any of them?

I added an email to my profile, I'd like to see that TESOL link.  I've heard
the money isn't as good as say, Korea, but if I could find a short contract
I'd still consider it for the experience.

Glaring newbie question: How did you get your message to accept
Cyrillic?  When I tried to type KOI8 earlier, it showed up as question
marks in the preview.