Need some honest advice

[John LV]

First let me thank all of you who have already given me advice on this board, many of you have given me some good advice when I really needed it the most. And a very special thanks to Ken, you have really helped me in my time of need, and I will always respect and appreciate that from you. You have one of the most beautiful wifes in this entire world, woman don't get any better looking than Lena, and if she indeed makes you happy, you are a very very lucky man.

This is my dilemma. I have been successful at taking back my Eclipse from Natasha, she doesn't know how things work here in this country, and she made a crucial mistake which enabled me to find her and retrieve the car.

My problem is, now she is completely screwed, she has no way to get around, and apparently she has just gotten herself a job, but she has no way to get there. She is seeing yet another guy, I saw him driving my car before I took it back. I have not talked with her, but I spoke with the guy she was seeing a couple of weeks ago, as him and I have become friends to a certain extent. She apparently called him this morning crying to him that if she cannot get back the car, she will have to return back home to Moscow.

I know Natasha, and I know that she hates Moscow. When we met, she was living in Prague, and she liked it there very much. As a matter of fact, she was somewhat reluctant to come here to the USA because she liked Prague so much, I had to talk her into coming here. But now she cannot go back to Prague, but Moscow instead.

I feel very bad about that, I did not want to screw this girl over, and I wish more than I could ever possibly describe here on this board that she did not screw me over, for if she hadn't I wouldn't even be posting on this board right now.

I don't know what to do, do I be vendictive and make her go back home to Moscow? Or do I have compassion for her and let her have a life here in the USA? I know what many guys would do, they would be very cold blooded and send her home, and maybe that is the smart thing to do? But I feel so bad about this I cannot describe it, I feel so sorry for her, and I wish to god she would never had done what she did to me, betraying me not once, not twice, but three times, which even included lying to the police about me abusing her, not to mentioned cheating on me with another guy. And now she is with yet another guy still, and apparently has a job working at a strip club here in Las Vegas, which is not what I wanted in a wife at all.

Part of me wants to send her home, and I know in the back of my mind that this is by far the safest thing for me both emotionally and financially. But the thought of her crying, the thought of her having to go home and being miserable, it makes me want to cry as well out of frustration in not knowing what I should do?

I have never been faced with this situation before, and I'm ill prepared to deal with this on my own. I wish I did not have to make this decision.

But before all of you tell me not to be foolish again and to send this girl back home as quickly as possible, please try to realize that this girl has been my whole life for the last 2.5 years, and she did in fact make me very happy for a short while, I was so proud to be married to her, so happy to be her husband, and we did share some good times together.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just a fool who will never learn, just a fool who will let himself be used time and time again, but I just can't seem to bring myself to be so cold hearted as she has been to me, maybe I cannot bring myself down to her level.

I feel sorry for her, I know her life in headed towards destruction, and I wish there was something I could do to help her.

What should I do? Keep the car from her and hope she goes home? Or should I just let her have the damn car and let her live her life here in the USA?

I wouldn't even be asking this question if she hadn't of screwed me over three times, of course I would help her.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What do you say when you have been fooled three times? Complete moron and fool? And what do you say when you are possible setting yourself up to be fooled 4 times?

Maybe that's all I am with respect to girls, a total fool. I may be good at science, and I may be good at many other things, but when it comes to relationships with girls, I have always been the fool, and perhaps I always will be.

I think I'm just too nice of a guy sometimes, I wish I could be more cold blooded when necessary.

I just don't know what to do and really need some honest advice from anyone willing to give it.

Thanks in advance,

David

[greg]

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Guy deal with her. Time for you to move on with your life, your not in the position to be feeling sorry for anyone...You need to feel sorry for yourself. Nothing more you can do for Her. Moooooooove on

[greg]

... in response to Let some other, posted by greg on Dec 12, 2002

if you don't have the heart to send her back, best for you to leave her alone..

[thesearch]

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

I am usually diplomatic. Not gonna do it this time.

This is my take on why you feel torn between two paths, that being to help your betraying lady and doing the only intelligent thing being to move on.

I can tell that you feel this disparity of wanting to go in two different directions with the one of empathy for her and wanting to help and the other being pragmatic and realizing that cutting loose is what you should do.

You want to cut loose, you feel that you should, it makes good sense to you but yet -- you feel torn.

Why do you think this is? Why would you desire to do that which you know is wrong, dangerous and not logical?

At some level you do not feel worthy. You are not willing to stand up to what you believe and make ultimatums at the correct time. This is a self esteem issue. It does not mean that there is any real reason for you to have this problem. Very talented and successful people can have severe self esteem issues whereas very dysfunctional individuals relative to being able to compete and survive in today's world may not have an esteem issue. So, to say such does not mean that you are a loser, it just that you act like one when you let a woman manipulate you.

You need to learn that you have to come first and in making yourself first (not being selfish as that is not what I am talking about) you can put others needs high on your priority list and it then becomes valuable and respected/appreciated. If you are a doormat - that is what you are - something to clean your feet on.

You need some counseling to find out why you are doing this. If you are lucky, hypnotherapy can get fast results for some. I would try that first myself. Also, start reading self help books.

Clearly it is an emotional problem. First of all, if this lady is quite a bit more attractive than women you typically have dated in the past, you could be just stuck on beauty versus judging her for who she is. This revolves around the issue of self esteem.

You can not be doing well in this category by what you are telling me. A man who has good self esteem has respect for himself and does not allow others to be disrespectful of him. He does not allow it. The more beautiful the woman, the more the issues of low self esteem come into play. The man with low self esteem will tolerate being abused by a beautiful woman because he feels elevated being in her presence. The fact  that she is beautiful is a statement that helps to erode feelings of inadequacy that he might have. It is However, when you allow people to treat you wrong it is viewed as being a weakness of character. Do not be fooled, all women at some level seek a man that is strong as this represents security. A man who is viewed by a woman as not being in control (she controls him), taking leadership, is a man that loses respect and in this she loses attraction for this man.  

You are getting being nice and caring confused with what women really want. They want someone who is in control of the situation who also happens to look out for their needs and wants as aggressively as he looks out after his own. It has to be both or it is viewed as a weakness.

So, do as you have done, ignore any advice. Give the lady more power to destroy your life.
That way you can justify your feelings of low self worth. Or, you could change. It is up to you.

[Frank O]

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

write you some very nice romantic letters & you send ME some money David? I'll tell you EVERYTHING you want to hear & won't cause you any problems. Of course we'll never be able to meet or if you do you I can set you up with one of my Mexican friends & you can just pretend they're Russian. Sorry dude but you ARE a fool.

[John LV]

... in response to How bout I..., posted by Frank O on Dec 12, 2002

I'm not sure, but it seems your telling me something which I don't already know?

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: How bout I..., posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

Sorry dude but I hate to see what you're going through. You really need to snap out of it. NOBODY else can do that for you. I too am searching for a wife but I'm NOT willing to get walked all over for one. If some is going to be breaking hearts it's going to be me man. I've gone through one divorce & it hurt more than words can express I don't plan on repeating it nor do I plan getting used again.

[Watcher]

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David ...David...David...David...David... David...    What part don't you understand?  She does not care one flying F */* for you or your feelings! Be a man!Get busy and simply go over and find another one!

[John LV]

... in response to Re: Need some honest advice, posted by Watcher on Dec 12, 2002

I talked with her on the phone a short while ago, I asked her why she has done this, why after all I have done for her over the last 2.5 years she could possibly do this to me?

All she could say is that she could not stand me yelling at her. And all she was concerned about is the car. She now proposes that I take her off both of our vehicles, her thinking is that once I do this, she will be able to obtain credit for a new vehicle.

I didn't have the heart to tell her that credit reports typically are 3 months behind, or at least 2 months behind, so it would take 2 months or more for her credit report to reflect her being taken off the loan.

She also says she will give me an uncontested divorce, I'm no lawyer but I believe that would also work to my benefit, if she does not contest the divorce she won't be in much of a position of power I don't think?

She just wants some of her belongings that were in the car when I took it. She told me, "I'm impressed how you took the car, did you cut the steering wheel" The car had a Club on it, that is why she asked.

I didn't have the heart to ask her if she ever heard of a tow truck and locksmith before, probably she hasn't.

I know you are right about what you say, I poured out my heart to her and she was so cold to me, in fact, she hung up the phone on me after I said to her, "we just don't seem to be able to talk with each other", at which point she said, "no we can't", and then hung up on me.

I've got a question for you, how can woman be like this? How can someone be so cold, so cruel, especially considering all that I have done for her? I have done a thousand times more for her than any other girl I've ever known, and I tried a thousand times harder than any other girl I've been with. How can she just turn on me like this? How can she be so cold and cruel?

Is she evil? That seems to be the only answer that seems to make sense, because a good person could never do such a thing to another human being, good could never even think to do such a thing.

Please give me your comment on this.

I'm still trading right now, so I don't have a lot of time, but later if it's ok with this board, I would like to post a letter from her from the beginning of our relationship word for word so that you and others can see how she was, what she said to me, and then perhaps you could tell me how I could see through her lies, her deception, what could I do differently in the future so that I can see through this?

Because as it stands right now, I just don't know how I could have known? Perhaps you or anybody else could tell me? I want you to see how sweet she was, how her words made me fall in love with her and believe that I had met the nicest sweetest girl in the world.

I know that I may be hashing this out, but I guess its my way of trying to deal with this, until I can attempt to understand this, I will be haunted by it, I need to understand what happen, and I greatly appreciate the help everyone here has offered me, you guys are much smarter than I had thought, much wiser than I had thought. I have belonged to many type of boards on the Internet since 1992, debating with many people with respect to science, and many other topics, but never have seen a board as this one, never have people helped me before as this board has.

I don't care what anybody says, most of you guys are really quality people, and I thank you for that. Later I will post one of Natasha's letters to me, and I'm hoping that you can give whatever insight you can with respect to her letter.

David

[thesearch]

... in response to Re: Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

David,

Before you would have known me as greg or greg123. We had some dialogue back then - don't know if you remember.

To answer your question --- Yep the lady is evil. Of course that is all relative. At least she did not get a life insurance policy out on you and have you knocked off. You are in denial that people like this can be changed or do not exist.  There are people like this. She is one of them. They are easy to find. They are all over the place. They try to not let you see who they are but they all leave clues right and left for those that choose to really observe. There are also people that would not hurt a fly and feel empathy for others to a great deal.

There are women who would cry to your face about how upset they are that things did not work. It would be clear that they cared about your feelings. They would say that they appreciated how much you had done for them and that they will work to earn  money to help you recapture the funds you spent on them so that you would have the finances to go back and try again. This certainly sounds like your lady does it not? Do you see the contrast here is so immense that it is a joke?

When you met her, she revealed aspects of her character that were a clue as to who she was. Go back, think about it. When did something she said or did in the early days get your attention but you brushed it off. There were times when things did not seem right but you ignored it or made excuses for such. What were they.

Think about it and post such here. This will be good therapy for you.

[Griffin]

... in response to Re: Re: Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

[BubbaGump]

... in response to BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by Griffin on Dec 12, 2002

Same old troll pattern.  How people quickly forget.

[John LV]

... in response to BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by Griffin on Dec 12, 2002

Well I don't know what BOHICA means, but I don't believe its something good, seems to be some warning? Perhaps you believe my story is false?

If so, you would be wrong, very wrong.

[robobond]

... in response to Re: BOHICA gentle readers.  n/t, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

BOHICA: "Bend Over, Here It Comes Again."

[robobond]

... in response to Need some honest advice, posted by John LV on Dec 12, 2002

BOHICA!