Trip Report -- Russia in November (Long)

[thesearch]

... in response to Clout?...., posted by LP on Nov 26, 2002

Hi LP

Do as I say not as I do. LOL

Notice how one can get caught up in it. You date younger women. (BTW, anything over fifteen years younger at your age is young IMHO) The point is you do it. Why do you do it? Because you are trying to punish yourself? LOL There must be a reason me thinks.

Now don't come back and say - but I am not marrying them. What is the difference if you marry them? Non really. Living with a woman for 10 years is the same as being married from a practical sense.

So, if a guy wants to be with a younger woman, as long as he is willing to accept the fact that at some point he is going to be affected by age to a point that his lady is going to feel trapped as a care giver, if she hangs around that long, and will need to move on - then what is the big deal?

When I pay for a wonderful vacation, I know that it is going to end. Would I go again? You bet. It is life. There is no guarantee with anything period nodda.

If the wonderful times that will not last are important enough for a guy to justify the chances she will leave him in time - then he got what he wanted. Hey even people who are the same age usually have to deal with the grief of losing their mate. It is inevitable. It is just that in this case everyone knows the likely outcome as it will unfold as to who is going to be the first to go. So, nothing is really going to change the way that I see it.

When she leaves you, you can always find a mate - you do not have to be alone - just not with a young one at that point perhaps.

But heck, at that point - perhaps all a guy wants is good company where the attitude and intellectual aspects take priority over youth and sex.  

What about the younger lady? She knew what she was getting into. Time heals most things.

Me, would I do it? Sure

And, there are marriages that last under these circumstances. I know a couple right now in my area where he is old and she is young. She loves this guy immensely - 20 year difference.

[yoe]

... in response to practice what you preach - takes new mea..., posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

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[LP]

... in response to practice what you preach - takes new mea..., posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

Hi Doc....

There IS a difference by not marrying them, an enormous difference. We have made no commitment to the long haul, it's only a day by day thing. I have *no* plans to allow this relationship to effect me down the road, when age will matter. In fact, the idea of marriage bothers me period, thats what seperates me from these guys. I'll deal with it when the times comes and when I do, it won't be with a large age difference. I'm having my cake now, I'll settle down proper later. Not the usual way but thats how it's worked out thus far. Whats wrong with that? Besides, comparing 20 years to 30 is apples to oranges.

As I've told you before, I've never looked to "date" younger women, thats just how it has worked out. I've no problem with it, believe me. But thats a far cry from saying until death do us part. I've paid the price several times for "dating" younger women, *thats* why I know. It's simply been my experience, maybe you missed that. Thank God I didn't marry any of them or I'd be in a world of hurt now. And the price I've paid would pale compared to bill come due down the road in such a marraige.

No thanks, you're welcome to it. Maybe thats why I feel marriage is futile when dealing with 20 years or more difference. Get some experience just with this, without marriage, then come back and we'll talk. It cuts many ways you know, often not at all what many guys imagine it to be. Trust me, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But it's acceptable as long as marriage (along with the legal and financial problems) is avoided. If so, it can be a pretty sweet deal until the bill comes due. (and it will come due.)

So ff you examine it closely you'll see marriage has a *great* deal to do with it. And I tire of pointing out the here and now has little bearing on these deals, it's the future thats the issue. If a guy agrees to pay the price, I say go for it. The problem is most guys give no thought of whats to come and hide their heads in the present.

[thesearch]

... in response to Sorry..., posted by LP on Nov 26, 2002

Hey LP,

We are in total agreement actually. No doubt that marriage, if it goes wrong, can be expensive. Does not have to be that way if done correctly but, there is still that door open that usually remains closed with the simple breaking up that takes place with a girl friend. Not to mean that such is always simple but in comparison to the ordeal that marriage/attorneys/courts/thelegalmaze will walk you through - it is simple.

I remember when KenC came to the conclusion in his head, if I read him right, that you were more into dating than finding a wife. However, I subtlety had the thought that this FSU thing with marriage being the only realistic option --- got you LP to thinkin --- and LP found out he was not AS ready to get married as he thought might be the case. Just my call on things from your posts.

Yea, I know you are going to come back with saying you would get married if the right one came along - and I am sure you would but, and this is a big BUT ----  the point is, the more ready a guy is to get married the more likely the lady comes along if you get my drift. I mean sometimes a guy is so ready -- it simply becomes the next woman to give him some special attention. )

I guess you could say that the less inclined one is for getting married, the higher the bench mark goes up for what is acceptable for the I do's. So, LP is going to put the benchmark high enough that it will simply take longer, as more women will have to cross your path, before you are motivated.

Now, of course, as you get older the equation changes. Your desirability will drop with the ladies as you age and unless your bank account accumulates at a faster pace then your wrinkles and all the other good stuff that the future promises, one finds not uncommonly that the benchmark starts to drop and when you get to the point that all you want is company to sit beside you in your rocking chair - well he11, all the old criteria used to choose a lady gets turned upside down.

So, my call, LP ain't gettin married until several more used calendars get thrown in the trash. Note, I did not say when you are in that there rockin chair. LOL

Not pickin on you. There is nutin wrong with that approach. Everyone finds what works best for them.

Just playin wit ya.

[LP]

... in response to i dunna think so, posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

...most of that is dead on. You're a little confused though. I'll get married when the time is right. I brought an FSU chick here and didn't because of two "problems":

1) Something far better came along that I didn't have to risk everything on, something that was more in line with what I'm used to.

2) I resent the gum'mint telling me I have to marry someone in 30 days, I'll marry when I'm good and ready.

Why there has to be any "I dos" at all is what amuses me in the first place. If one is aiming to start a family, fine. Or if one is simply not able, not confident, or for any other numerous reasons unable to attract the alternative to marriage, fair nuff. But being married is not all it's cracked up to be and doesn't mean one can't have the exact same benefits without the possible hassles. Again, it's all I've known. Dating? Hardly.

You be right about sumthin else, it takes more than a little attention, beauty, or "Russianess" to win me over. After all, it's been a very long time since I was married and those years since have been pretty sweet. It's all I've known, so try not to lump me in with many of these guys.

If I was into dating I would have taken a revolving door policy. Instead, I've had longer monogamous relationships than many guys here have marraiges. In fact, longer than any guy here married to a R/W...by far. Doesn't sound like dating to me, sounds more like having my cake and eating it too. I like younger women, who doesn't? But marry one? No chance, walk a mile in my shoes and you'll understand.

The fact is most MOB guys are, as you correctly point out, quite "ready" to get married for reasons we all know about. (Some of the responses to Scaught's post make that very clear.) Leave me out of that group please. And when the time comes when all I want is someone to sit next to my rockin chair, it won't be someone very junior but at least she'll be there. I'm willing to bet thats better odds than 98% of 50 year olds who marry a 25 year old will have. They'll end up just like I will, with someone closer to their age. Of course, that'll be after *someone* involved pays the previous debt due.

Or they'll die alone. Ponder that for awhile.

What does this all have to do with marrying someone 25 or 30 years your junior? Maybe nothing. But I still maintain anyone who does so is living in the present and will very likely pay some form of heavy price, either in the near or distant future. Take it from someone who has had all the benefits, it ain't worth it.

[KenC]

... in response to Can't argue....., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

LP,
I understand that you "logically" believe that someday you will trade up (down?) to woman close to your age, but that will never happen.  You only have relationships with younger women.  You are only attracted to younger women.  One of them (hopefully) will eventually steal your heart.  Just for sh!ts & grins, at what age will you throw the switch and settle down with a woman your age?  At 60?  At 70?  Sorry, skyboy, it aint gonna happen.  Just remember that at 70, a young "hottie" will be 50 too.  Tigers hardly ever lose their stripes.  LOL.
KenC

[LP]

... in response to I think you are wrong, posted by KenC on Nov 27, 2002

....you're probally right of course. But the very great difference is that "youngster" will be far more likely to hang around *then*, than if I marry her now.

It IS ironic that you and I both don't recommend younger women. My reasons are obvious, I've had enough experience with them to be very gun shy about longevity past 5 years or so. Why are you against it? I think it's because you clearly understand how the risk rachets up as the delta increases. Why you fail to apply that logic to your own situation is interesting, but understandable. ;-)

Remember, 3 years isn't much. Even most marriages to A/W last that long. Ever heard of the 7 year itch? Imho, betting a large age delta marriage will last 20 years or longer is wildly optimistic. Even if it does, there are many practical problems that simply can't be resolved. Add in the cross cultural aspects and the risk is over the top for someone like me.  

It's all way to risky for me, I can have the same benefits without the associated risks and wait until later to level the playing field. As for the attitude that the years before such a marriage dies are worth it, the guy involved will have much more to lose after those years and everything lost will be harder to get back.

It's not black and white, depends on the age the marriage occcurs. 20/40 has less of a chance to work than 40/60. But when people state that 20/50 or even 20/60 is workable, they fail to consider how the odds go down. They also usually fail to consider all the intricacies of what the future will bring, basing their decisions solely on emotional involvement in the present.

Btw, I'm the one doing the heart stealing these days. ;-)

[KenC]

... in response to lol...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

LP,
You ask why I wouldn't recommend a big age dif.  Frankly, most guys would be so overwhelmed by a young hottie that they wouldn't be able to see ANYTHING straight.  They would believe anything the youngster told them and not even attempt to look for trap doors.  The fantasy wouldn't last for very long.  
-
I kind of backed into my relationship with my wife.  I KNEW she was way too young.  I KNEW it wouldn't last long.  I KNEW there would be major land mines that would scuttle the relationship.  I, like you, figured what the hell, enjoy it while it lasts.  A funny thing happened to throw all that logic out the window: I fell deeply in love with her.  But even MORE important, she convinced me that she was deeply in love with me.  Maybe she was dropped on her head as a child, but I believe her.  I know that 3 years aint squat.  But I also know what we have and it is strong and true.  Be careful, it may happen to you too.
KenC

[Globetrotter]

... in response to we're both full of it, posted by KenC on Nov 27, 2002

LP & KenC:

Great exchange reading both of you banter.  I hope all else heve read the exchange...so true, so true!!!

[Stevo]

... in response to lol...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

I think you are being a little TOO analytical about it, to the point of shutting yourself out of possibilities.  You need to be a little more flexible...even old guys like you can revise their thinking!

[LP]

... in response to While I don't disagree with the gist of ..., posted by Stevo on Nov 27, 2002

...According to your profile, I'm younger than you Sport. The only possibility I'm shutting myself out of is the risk of financial ruin. Otherwise I have everything you do, it remains debatable who has the best deal ;-)

[Oscar]

... in response to Old guys???...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

.

[Griffin]

... in response to Clout?...., posted by LP on Nov 26, 2002

[Griffin]

... in response to Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 26, 2002

and if I'm not mistaken Ken is married to one of those pretty young fillies that so concern the age police. (May God have mercy upon his soul.)

[juio99]

... in response to Re: Re: Trip Report --  Russia in Novemb..., posted by Quick Fix on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan has been around here a long time.

JR