What my wife said...

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: And And, posted by thesearch on Aug 23, 2002

Well.. this alone merely tells you that the average American is not as "exducated and cultered" as the average Eurpopean.

I think this may be skewed somewhat. After all, the women we are meeting mostly have internet access, and mostly have higher degrees, because if she didn't, she woudln't think she could learn English and move to America.

So, its hard to say that our anecdotal experiences mean much in the scheme of things.

I do think, however, that the state of higher education in America is apalling.

Have you read: "The Closing of the American Mind" by Allan Bloom?

He makes a strong argument that Political Correctness has robbed our education system of it's solid grounding in the classics.

That is a shame...

[Pordzhik]

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Apart from the drunkeness and woman chasing, (which it must be said a lot of Russian men don't go in for). Very few of the young men earn enough money to support a wife and an apartment, often having to bring the new bride home to live with the parents if they are lucky enough to have the room.

Some of these ladies will just not have the opportunity to hope for a marriage under these circumstances, this is what gives western men the advantage. They also know very well they won't find twentysomethings out there on the internet, which gives the older men something of a chance. The alternative for a lot of these women is to become old maids.

Amongst these women it is taken for granted that western men are able to support them, house owner or not.

My wife has established quite a network of Russian women friends since her arrival in England, some of the husbands have £500.000 houses, others live with mum!

I really don't think being a home owner is top of these ladies agenda when choosing a mate. They just want a decent life and some romance, like everybody else.

[WilliamF]

... in response to And my wife said..., posted by Pordzhik on Aug 21, 2002

I would make the same points. Economic security, a good man, and escape from the prospect of growing old in an apartment with Mom and Dad drive many of these women. If the woman is childless, I would add to the list: desire for children/family.

The apartment/house distinction is not something my wife has every talked about.

[Wayne1]

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Wouldn't it be a little more reasonable to try to find a wife who loved you with an apartment or a house.  

Isn't that the real fear of this whole process.  Finding a women who has alterior motives.  Upgrade the country and the house.  How about finding a women who just falls in love and considers all the other stuff secondary.  

Maybe later down the road you both can work towards a house if you choose.

This kind of talk is a real turn off to me.  It is one reason many of us try to get away from American women.

A women looking for the "full package" is a little too opportunistic for my taste.

There is always a guy down the road that is younger, fitter, and has a larger house and income.  You don't want to find a women who is materialistic, because she may upgrade you.  Some of these girls get the "kid in the candy store" syndrome when they get here, just like some of us do when we get over there.

[Anastassia]

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

I am talking about a 'full package' inside a man, in a man, of a man, i don't mean possessions, that come and go, for me full packages is - white, Christian, 28 years old, high education, tall, sportive, cute, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke... and materially successful.

Isn't this good? Does it mean that I am a heartless, calculating predator? Not at all. God forbid.

Lots of AM want to find a simple lovely Russian lady who won't even make a sound, will never argue with him, will always be 'under' him and won't complain, won't be against anything, and if SOMETHING, then here is your ticket back, au revoir!

For me 2 people in a marriage MUST be equal, it is hard to be equal for a lady when she comes to a foreign country, even if she knows English perfectly, still there is so much ahead to understand how everything works, how to find a job, how to pay bills, how to file taxes, how to buy a house, how to refinance... so of course we cannot be equal here at once.

Anastassia

[snowwego]

... in response to Re: Re: What my wife said..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002


I agree that  a girl is not on an equal plain but, I would make every effort to make her feel that way.

[chuck12]

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

Wayne1,

Yes you brought up a good point but I think with RW's the fact that they are looking for an American with a house vs an apartment is quite different then the point of view of an AW (gold-digger). RW's (JMHO) are looking for someone who is stable, financially secure.

This is important to them, part of the whole package. They don't wish to waste their time with someone who can't provide and/or support a family. Isn't this why many Western men seek women in the FSU is traditional family values?

I don't want to speak for Stevo's wife, but unless I'm grossly mistaken, this is probably close to home. Also keep in mind that Russian Apartments are probably not up to par as to what you can get in the U.S.

The cost (rent) of an apartment in Russia is $10 - $25 mos (depending on locale), and if RW's are under the impression this is what Americans pay, (even taking into consideration we obviously have higher income), they might falsely assume anyone living / renting an apartment in the U.S. could fall under the category of white - trailer tr###.

Bottom line, most RWs want a better life, so be it that it has to occur in another country, they wish to find a suitable companion w/stability. Brad Pitt look alikes doesn't mean you can support a family, unless of course you are Brad Pitt so you might want to take this into consideration, the RW's that I have come in contact with are not looking for the golden goose. just my nickels worth.

regs -
chuck

[Stevo]

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

screening process?(and that's all she was talking about here)  Guys do lots of intial screening....weight, height, hair color, education level, english ability, you name it.  And women use their own initial criteria, and you would be naive to think that it is the same criteria a man uses (never has been).  Men go for looks and youth while women look for stability and maturity.  For lots of women, a house is a sign of stability and financial werewithal.  It may in fact not prove out in the end, but you've got to start screening with some type of criteria.

Does it bother me she didn't respond to someone in an apartment?  Not at all.  This gave me a better shot at what I was looking for by cutting down on the competition.

And if you think that RW aren't interested in the same things that AW are interested in, then you are in for a rude awakening.

I didn't go shopping in Russia under some misguided belief that RW were more 'traditional' than AW.  On the contrary, I went to Russia to find a young and beautiful wife knowing that I had an advantage over my Russian counterparts because of what I could offer her in terms of materialistic things.  Hey, if an RW wasn't just as materialistic as an AW and believed in love over everything, then why in the hell would they wan't to come here in the first place?  Be honest, materialism is what is driving women out of the FSU, and is what is making them available to us western men.

Stevo

[Wayne1]

... in response to I don't know, doesn't everyone have some..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Stevo wrote:
I went to Russia to find a young and beautiful wife knowing that I had an advantage over my Russian counterparts because of what I could offer her in terms of materialistic things. Hey, if an RW wasn't just as materialistic as an AW and believed in love over everything, then why in the hell would they wan't to come here in the first place? Be honest, materialism is what is driving women out of the FSU, and is what is making them available to us western men.

Hmmm,

I thought the big reason they were looking abroad was because most American men are not drunks, womenizers and know how to treat a women better.

I firmly believe that if you find a women who puts much importance on upgrading her material life, then it won't be long after she gets here that she is running off with another younger, fitter, dude.  Going for the total upgrade.

If the real reason these women are marrying us is because they are trying to better their financial situation, then the whole process smells really bad.

Now don't get insulted Stevo.  I am generally speaking, and not talking about your wife OK.

Peace
Wayne

[oldbutspry]

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

Bothers you that a woman would take material things into account?  Want to know how important your money is to her?  Well, think about yourself and how important her beauty is to you - that's about how important your financial situation is to her.  I think that is the best way to put things into perspective.  Of course, it only works if you can be honest with yourself.

Think about our conversation.  Imagine if this was a list of RW's talking about whether AM only valued them for their attractiveness.  And then the RW equivalent of Wayne pops up and says, "Well, I don't want an AM then because beauty fades and he will surely want to trade up...."

Now first - I don't think any of us value RW for beauty alone.  But it is a factor.  And I don't think we are so shallow as to trade up.  But if they talked about AM's money as much as we talk about their beauty it would sure be a turn-off to a lot of guys.  Fortunately, they don't generally want the money as an end unto itself.  They just want to know all the elements are there for the fairy tale to come true.  And usually fairy tales aren't about destitute couples.  Now love and devotion can and will overcome all forms of despair (financial hardship included).  But when a woman is initialing weeding out 'applicants' the love bond isn't there to guide her decision.

Want an RW who will value you from the start regardless of your money?  Find an ugly woman - the uglier the better.  Now this is no guarantee (there are no guarantees in love), but it will CERTAINLY increase your odds manyfold.

Of course, you could instead find a woman you deem to be sincere and trustworthy and just let go of the insecurity.  You'll be a happier person all-around.

John

[Wayne1]

... in response to Try this...., posted by oldbutspry on Aug 22, 2002

As the posts continue, the original question gets lost sometimes.

No, I don't think it is bad if a women considers if a guy will be able to support the family.

What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the women who just throws away the letters from guys who live in apartments and don't own houses.   That was the original issue.  Jeeez many guys around here don't have a house because their ex now lives in it.  

There are many wonderful different types of Russian women.  It's the calculating opportunistic ones that I tried to stay away from.  For any guys that have been over there, they know what I'm talking about.

Wayne

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Try this...., posted by oldbutspry on Aug 22, 2002

asd

[Nico]

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

This is really an interesting topic.Is marrying for economic reasons bad? Well if that is the SOLE reason that someone is marrying for then maybe it is.
 However it wasn't but maybe a short 80 or 90 years ago when here in the U.S., women didn't didn't have all these nice rights,education and access to good jobs and good pay like they do now. The women lived with their parents until they were married, because of social pressure and also for economic reasons. When they finally married you just didn't divorce. You HAD to stay together to make ends meet. A women just didn't move out and get an apartment and a job or else get on one of our various generous welfare programs or draw a child support check from her ex. You had to stay together to "run the farm" so to speak. So it appears as though economics had something to do with marriages and marriage stability back then.Obviously, divorce rates were ahell of lot lower back then, than they are now and finding a mate far less complicated for my grandfather than it is for me.

Well we have lost that economic component in these modern United States. American women are now educated ,independent ,and earn more than ever ."Just" having a "good" job and home,  no longer cut it as far as making you more desirable to these American women.Money in these United States only makes a difference if you are VERY well off. As a case in point I offer you the example of the all too common attractive women with the exciting /good looking / bad boy / jail bird/jerk type man who doesn't work and can't hold down a job. The women knows in this society she will have a roof over her head ,food on the table , ect ect. regardless of who she is with. So she will pick the more exciting,better looking ect. jerks over you, "the average decent American male".

You don't believe me! Well why don't you go try going to your nearest and most down trodden ghetto and try see if any of the attractive young women will date you.Are you kidding! They don't want a nice decent man like you who will rescue them from the ghetto. They want one of those slick rico suave none-working,wise guys.Not that you would want them either. This is just an example.
My conclusion is that since we have have lost that economic component, divorce with all its associated negative social impacts has risen.Finding a wife in America has become a nightmare. And to answer my theme question,"Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?" Not necessarily

                           Nico

[BrianN]

... in response to Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?, posted by Nico on Aug 21, 2002

I fell on this one more than 20 years ago...

absolutely.

Dumbass dope dealin fools dumber than a stump... got'em all.  What's intriguing to me is that back then, the playboy centerfold was Candy Loving.  heh heh.  Now that's old.

Is there any place on this earth that a woman can respect and WANT a nice guy geek?

Ain't nothing changed Nico.

[snowwego]

... in response to Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?, posted by Nico on Aug 21, 2002

that is so true, I believe that todays women are looking for excitement and they see it in the lowlifes that treat them bad.