Marriage Agency business model

[Ramblin]

I’m just a bit curious about this.  I can see how an agency in the fsu whether a scam agency or whether an honest agency can make money as a business because they sell addresses and provide services both over the internet and to travellers that visit them and everything they get is taxed low and goes much farther when they spend it.  Yet how does an agency based in the U.S.A. make enough money to be a successful business?  I suppose an agency like AFA or Anastasia or EC that has over 1000 ladies and sells each lady’s address over 100 times per year would be successful but what about all of these small agencies, how do they stay in business?  I wonder if Jack would consider it a trade secret to tell us his business arrangements and if other owners and people that know would tell.  I mean, all money paid to interpreters is kept by the interpreter right?  The same for taxis and apartments.  Social parties don’t happen that often and not with that many clients.  And what about all of these partners in the fsu.  If they find the ladies and get their info and they are the ones that meet the man when he comes, how does any money trickle to Jack or an American agency owner?  Do they just agree that if the American owner or manager brings them a lot of business then they split the income?  How many clients are needed to turn it into something that we would see on the internet for more than a year of success and would be enough for a full time business?

[wsbill]

... in response to Marriage Agency business model, posted by Ramblin on Jul 23, 2002

http://www.asi-conferences.com/html/conference_html/finance/finance_oct02.html

[Jack]

... in response to Marriage Agency business model, posted by Ramblin on Jul 23, 2002

Ramblin,

 Right now you are witnessing a lot of changes in the industries related to Russian brides. The weak economy has had, and is having, a major effect on some of the big boys, as well as many of the foreign scammer agencies. In the past both Anastasia and European Connection were paying from $250,000 to $300,000 a year in there catalogs and postage expense. From the sale of addresses they were able to break even with catalog and overhead expense's, they made there real money from the socials. 55, 60, 70 men per social generated quite a profit. At first there were only four socials a year, then 6, then 8 to the point recently where each of these companies were having socials every month. Soon Anastasia, European Connection and AFA were in the same cities every month and so not to compete directly with each other, one would have there social one week, one the next week and the third the next week, trying to never compete head to head in the same city at the same time.

 European Connection was always the leader with the number of guys attending. I attended one of there socials when they had 70 men in Moscow and another when they had 25 in Kiev. At the same time European Connection would be drawing 60 men per social, Anastasia would be drawing 40 to 45. AFA would be drawing 35 to 40, usually a little less than Anastasia, although AFA would on occasion out draw them in St. Petersburg, where AFA started and was the strongest.

As more men in the industry became more educated as to what was going on, the number of guys going to these socials started to decline. After a couple of years, after guys talking, comparing notes, witnessing what was going on, it became obvious that a great number of the ladies attending these socials were social scammers with a light sprinkling of working girls mixed in. In one month the same ladies in Moscow are attending the socials by European Connection, Anastasia and AFA. The girls were becoming very smart on what to do and how to do "get engaged" every month. As the good women who attended these events saw what was going on, they stopped coming, and they would tell other good girls what was going on so it got to the point that there were fewer and fewer good girls attending these socials. At today's bigger socials you have two types of ladies attending, the social scammers who attend social after social, and the ladies attending for the very first, and last time. I think the number of guys who were scammed by bad Russian women, and married these women, from 1994 thru 1998 I would guess to be a high percentage. Many of the scam stories and bad things we hear today are directly related to the events that took place during this time frame. The guys never knew what hit them. Today we have a much more educated consumer who is aware of the potential of scam and the ways of many of the scammers mostly due to the Internet. The Internet is responsible for introducing us to a new type of scammer, but it has also greatly educated us.

As I have already said, due to a weakening economy and a more educated consumer, the number of guys attending these socials is dropping dramatically. This past January (or December) European Connection cancelled a group tour for the first time because there were just not enough guys, I think a wise financial move on there part. Anastasia, seizing the opportunity, published this fact in there catalog, that a "major" competitor had to cancel and that they have never had to cancel a tour. About 7 weeks ago at a social in St. Petersburg, Anastasia had 15 men to attend. 15 men, that is all. And Anastasia also had a social in Ekaterinburg that followed St. Petersburg, and 6 men went to that, 6 men!  Anastasia can still say they have never cancelled a social and will be able to say this up to the day they file bankruptcy!

As the number of guys attending these socials have decreased and revenues have dropped, both European Connection and Anastasia have had to come up with other means to increase revenues, thus was born E-700 and Anastasia.web. Talk to any of the guys who have used this service and you will probably hear 4 out or 5 guys not speak to fondly of the service, but it did increase revenues, originally, and now as the word has gotten out about the quality of these two services, revenues are again dropping.

Ramblin has I started out I wanted to be different from other agencies. In an industry full of scam, I felt a good, honest agency would do well. I disliked-liked so many things about the big boys socials that I created something different. Having 50 guys get off the plane and attend three parties with 700 ladies attending, a week of fun and partying for these guys, but no wife's, I wanted a more serious clientele and clients that had to work at this to be successful, because to do this right does take work.

Like the big boys, my address sales just about covers my overhead. I make decent money from my twice a year group tours which pay for the wife and myself to spend a month or so in the FSU, but a lot of my revenues comes from the services we provide, such as hand delivering letters, flowers, and gifts, translating letters, taking photos, three-way conference calls, cell phone rentals, scam busting services, greeting men at airports, train stations and bus terminals, acquiring good flats at good locations, providing interpreters, drivers and that all important ability to help men with little notice or preparation to proceed forward with an emergency back-up plan when they have the balls to ask for it.

I do have a phone company in Dallas that really pays for my existence so I never really had to make any money at this but what I was able to do was to provide many wonderful people who I had met and knew in the FSU an opportunity to make a good living. My Ukraine business manager was a doctor, she is a lady I met during my pursuit for a Russian bride, wonderful lady but not the right chemistry for man and wife. She had not been paid for like 7 months, and yet she, and others, still survive. Can you imagine how we would survive with not getting paid for seven months? I was able to put her, and several other wonderful people, to work by meeting men at the airports, by hand delivering men's letters, by finding the best prices for flats.

At one time my little Russian marriage agency required about two or three hours from me a day. I think when I got a call from you one day Rambler, with no notice, not
knowing who you were or anything about you,  just that you were in trouble, I dropped everything and proceeded to help you out. I spent a few hours and a few long distance phone calls and we were able to help improve the quality of your trip. I charged you nothing for my time, as I did for a lot of guys, because I had the time and enjoyed being able to help. Well, those days of two or three hours a day are gone. I "might" spend one or two hours a day to my phone company, but I spend on average 10 hours a day with Firstdream. And now Ramblin,  as I don't have the amount of free time I used to have, I have begun to have to charge for my time. On average I now charge guys anywhere from $75 to $150 to consult, to organize, to help with there trips. Every day of the week now I average five guys in some part of the FSU.

My trade secrets would be to stay small enough that you can give individual care and attention and to give a very personalized service. Of course you must develop a trusting and loyal infrastructure, which is so important to success. By dealing with, and working with the wrong people, you can get yourself in trouble. Ramblin, my advice to you and your future bride if you want to start a marriage agency would be to move slow, take your time and learn to do one thing right before you go to the next thing. Start out in your wife's hometown where she will have trustworthy friends and family. Get good in her city first before you expand. Everyone who works for you must have a home internet access and a computer and needs to speak and write good English. Do not expect to make any money for the first few years, take pride in what you do and be prepared to go toe to toe with your Russian competitors once you become established.

[Ramblin]

... in response to The state of the industry, posted by Jack on Jul 23, 2002

Thanks for taking the time to explain a few things Jack.  But you still haven't told me what I really want to know.  Suppose there is a small agency in the fsu and you partner with them, how is the money divided?  Just suppose that most of the ladies and addresses on your site came from an individual or couple in the fsu with a small agency, and you only provided more client, but they did the work on that end, how much would you get for providing the clients or improving the amount of customers from a better website than what they had?  Or how would you negotiate with such people to become your employees if they weren't in the situation of not getting paid for 7 months like your business manager was?  Or suppose that there was a lady in Kiev that loved to do matchmaking and thought she was good at it and she asked you to partner with her, now she is the one that gets the ladies and you are the one that gets the men but she does all of the meeting at the airport and all of the interpreting and finding flats, so what type of money arrangement would you have with such a partner?  And then yes, suppose your wife wants to get some men for her friends and she can get a half dozen or so ladies at first to go on your website but she is no longer in the city, how would you make any money off of getting men introduced to them in addition to selling their contact information?  As for calling you, no, I called Brian C. about my lost luggage and he called you after he heard how much bad luck I was having.  But in case I never thanked you, (I think I may have e-mailed you and also thanked you through Rostick) but if not, a big thanks for the plan 3 backup plan which saved my butt last summer.  The apartment was great, the interpreting was better English than the others and a fun time, and the local agency connection was great.  And that is why I was wondering how you got anything out of that, and I guess you didn't, so you are justified in charging consulting fees nowadays.  Maybe you should advertise something like "emergency back up plans, $75, just call my local representative.  800 numbers are difficult to call from Ukraine.  Anyway, Jack if you could comment on my partnership questions, I would much appreciate it.  Thanks, again.

[Patrick]

... in response to The state of the industry, posted by Jack on Jul 23, 2002

I'll second Jacks comment about losing money at the start.  It took three years before my wife and I started making a profit.  Up to a whopping $13,000 last year.  I wouldn't recommend anyone quit their day job too soon if they plan on starting an agency!  The "easy" money everybody thinks the operators (all scum of course) make really isn't very easy and isn't very much unless you're one of the big boys in the industry.  $13,000 would be pretty good though for an operator in a foreign country.  It's no wonder why so many locals are opening agencies.

By the way, now's a terrible time to start.  I think with our current economic conditions business is slowing significantly.  Where currently in the worst bear market since 1929 and it's not over yet!  Maybe we'll beat the great depression in total loss before we're through.  HeII, now that I think about it, maybe now is a good time.  Take the money to start the business out of stocks and you'll be using the money to start a business instead of continuing to watch it lose 2-3% per day like it's doing lately.

[wsbill]

... in response to Prepare to lose money, posted by Patrick on Jul 23, 2002

Cash out your stocks and go live there for 1 year and open an agency.

I'm telling you guys, Eastern Europe in the next 10 years is going to be a growth vehicle.  The American stock market has been hammered and it's not going to settle down anytime soon.

There is zero up side to it.  But if you were to start a business with your wife in Ukraine or Russia and have some sort of a need or capacity.  It think you could get in on the ground floor.  As Western companies are now pouring vast sums of money into those regions.

Of course, it's not going to fire up their stock market,,which all markets are now so closely tied with ours.

What happen during the bull run, just about everyone had stocks in the market and the wealth effect was why people were spending...but now as the markets tank, so has the vast majority peoples savings.  (Imagine, investment consults were telling people to take out a loan on their houses (2nd morgages) and buy stocks with that money)...

Boy don't you they're feeling pretty reamed at the moment.

So now, most americans are in the savings mode and pay off their debts mode.  Just like after every great correction, the markets have to stabilize, and regroup before they can make a profit and lure investors back.

How many folks here own any Worldcom, Global Crossing or Enron Stock.

Great book everyone, I mean EVERYONE should read is called Deflation , by DR Gary Shilling.  I swear everything the guy predicted is coming true.  Anyone ever hear of him, he use to have a column in Forbes Magazine.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Go to Eastern Europe to live, posted by wsbill on Jul 23, 2002

I keep hearing you say it...

Just wondering when you will take your own advice?

Me personally, I kinda got used to hot water... I'd hate to give it up...

[Mark H]

... in response to So... when are you going?, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 24, 2002

Me too! Love the shot.

Mark H.

[Ramblin]

... in response to Re: Go to Eastern Europe to live, posted by wsbill on Jul 23, 2002

Good points.  I'm sure there are great investment opportunities in Eastern Europe.  I heard that Sevastopol will soon be a more popular resort area than Yalta.  No, I didn't have any of those recent bankrupt stocks but I had some KMart, who would have thought that KMart would go bankrupt!

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: Re: Go to Eastern Europe to live, posted by Ramblin on Jul 24, 2002

When am I going over to live there.  As soon as I retire from the Navy Reserves... In fact, I'm looking for any military opportunities that will allow for me to go over for extended periods of time, for training the Ukrainians or Russians or whomever.

Once  you learn the lay of the land and all the laws of business.  For instance, how many coke machines did you see in Kiev or better yet, gum ball machines.  Ya didn't, what you probably saw was some street vendor hustling the product on a 2x4 table with colas in a cooler.

Imagine who is going to have that soda pop route when people start using pop machines.  

You gotta keep your eyes open for opportunity.

Heck, if I were a rich man and looking for a good wife.  I'd think  you could create an agency and as the women come in the joint you could easily select who is worthy and who is not.   And do it gradually, so you could savor the moement.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: Go to Eastern Europe to live, posted by wsbill on Jul 23, 2002

I picked up this book this weekend as it was on my shelf and was reading about our moral decline (women started working in 1965 ~ has graphs and data).  Supporting what we all know is what is wrong with our society.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961856246/qid=1027479571/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/104-9601968-3776755

If you invest money in our markets,  I would recommend you read this.  The implications of a growing eastern europe coming of age with a middle class society = huge growth.

Where as in America, with our great declines in wealth and exportation of factory jobs to poorer nations (china, ukraine, russia, etc...)  I would be surprise if you see our middle class shrinking, in america your either going to be rich or poor.

Where as in EE, they'll have the birth of a middle class of some sort.  Of course, our standard of living will still be intact.  But like most folks think... Will Social Security be there when I retire?   (Why do you guys think I do this Navy Reserve on the weekends, an extra paycheck in my old age).

[wsbill]

... in response to Re:  Here it is at Amazon...read the rev..., posted by wsbill on Jul 23, 2002

This is like Deja vu.

[thesearch]

... in response to The state of the industry, posted by Jack on Jul 23, 2002

Jack

Thanks for the informative post. I enjoyed reading it.

PS: You mean your wife is even better looking than that photo at your site? You dog.

I did not know you can have your own phone company?

[wsbill]

... in response to Marriage Agency business model, posted by Ramblin on Jul 23, 2002

I think with Jack he's established ties with some of these people a long time ago.  And he has kept his word as to paying them.

Of course, anyone can be lured away by a higher salary, but that is no guarantee for long term success.  Heck, who knows some of the people probably have normal jobs and when you come to town, you'll no doubt give more tips than what's expectedd.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Marriage Agency business model, posted by Ramblin on Jul 23, 2002

I dont' run an agency...

But this is how I would imagine it....

The business model is different depending on the type of agency you run.

AFA, Anastasia... these places mostly sell addresses. They also run tours which once were a very lucrative business. Charging a man $2000 for what basically amounts to four parties is a pretty good business. If you get 25 men there, you are talking pretty good money.

A smaller agency will offset the fact that they deal in smaller catalogs by doing two things: They will charge you for their help (i.e. membership fees to join, or consulting fees) and they will mark up everything they do.

Sometimes, in order to make things profitable, and still keep their prices reasonable, they will negotiate better prices with their contacts in Kiev, St Pb, or whatever.

So, if you hire an interpreter for $8 an hour through them the interpreter has agreed to pay them a fee. The interpreter is willing to do this, of course, because the agency will give them a lot of business.

The same goes with everything: Placing personal ads, delivering flowers, airport transportation... everything will have a slight mark-up for the agency.

Although there is a mark-up, depending on the agency, it may cost the customer no more.

For instance, when I was in Kiev, the apartment I rented for $80 a night, Jack could have probably rented me for less, and still made money on it, because he has negotiated prices with his people.

Also, it should probably be noted that Jack has another business that has nothing to do with the FSU. (Or, at least the last time I talked to him he did).

Most of the small botique shops are "part-time" businesses. They are not making money hand over fist like some people seem to think...