trip report

[CornellGuy]

... in response to A Question For Tim (And Anyone Else With..., posted by CornellGuy on May 9, 2002

Most of the guys who post have had some experience in corresponding with and meeting FSU ladies, so I respect your points of view.  I can't say I agree with all of them, though.  Sending money to a FSU woman you are writing but have never met: it just seems like common sense to deciding individually if it's warranted.  Oscar made a good point in a previous post: if you've had some experience at writing FSU women, you can spot the con artists a mile away.  But there's a difference between healthy common sense..... and the slide into paranoia, looking for "red flags" in every letter.  Some of the Western men looking for a wife in the FSU I really feel sorry for, desperately lonely yet twisting in their paranoia and bitterness.  I'm not a rich guy either, but a man who's bitter about sending $200 to a nice girl, his "maybe future wife and love of his life",  for airfare..... well, I can't see such a guy being relaxed and happy in his marriage.  Such stinginess of spirit in obsessing about "his" money; I can't see that as being a very lovable trait of character.  For guys like that, I can't see them reaching a point of ever trusting the woman in their lives.  I just can't see myself living my life like that, sorry to say.
    What did I do?  I asked her to meet me in Moscow, neutral ground, and she agreed.  I never insisted to meet her family and friends in her hometown; I sensed her reluctance to introduce me into her world as her future husband.  What happens if I turned out to be an incredible social embarassment in front of her friends, family and coworkers?  Face it, a lot of the Western men going over to the FSU are weirdos!  She never hinted about needing money or wanting presents, but I offered to pay her way r/t to Moscow.  Over the last 3 months, I tested her honesty and seriousness in little ways.....  just as she did to me.  She's a good person who I'm happy to invite to meet me.  Why would I meet her if I didn't put trust in her?

[BrianN]

... in response to Thanks For Your Opinions, Guys, posted by CornellGuy on May 10, 2002

[tim360z]

... in response to A Question For Tim (And Anyone Else With..., posted by CornellGuy on May 9, 2002

Its really up to you but....could be a no-show.  Has happened before as I have heard.  Its really just a very poor practice to send money to someone whom you really don't know at all.  You wouldn't do it here...so don't do it there.  Unless you're mentally ready to realize you could be loosing it...the odds are there.  Or if you feel like this is charity...give til you feel good.

Best scenario is to go to her home and meet her.  Truth or dare?  If you beleive she is that very great..just go.  But,  have a very good back-up plan because its different in-person than in letters.  Totally different dynamics.  Now easily one could still be taken by someone in person,  happens everyday.  But to send money to someone you never met is crazy.  It is a psyschological desperation.  You might as well send money also to that guy in Nigeria who keeps trying to scam everyone with his little con game.

Now you can send her or is it him the money for the trip.  But,  do not be surprised by a no-show.  But,  the money will be spent for something...maybe a dress or new shoes or whatever.

[thesearch]

... in response to Temptation Alley:  A risk is a Risk is a..., posted by tim360z on May 9, 2002

Yea, but if she is a scammer, she is scammer regardless of whether she comes to see him or he goes to see her.

But, the point is, that it very well could be less expensive relative to valuable time and funds for her to come to him. If she does not show he is still out less money and much less wasted time than if he took the time to go and meet her if she is a scammer. He is going to have to invest somewhere if he is going to meet her.

[dance4ume]

... in response to You pay either way - which has the least..., posted by thesearch on May 9, 2002


Have you seen her "live" yet? If not why not have another
guy contact her promising to come to her town  in the next two or three weeks. See how hard she bites.
If you have not seen her you are guessing as to what she is about etc.
These girls have learned well how to supplement their income
without leaving the country.
Tell her in your next e-mail you make only a very average
salary etc. Ask her specific questions only face to face.
Have a backup plan before you go.
Fishtiger

[Philb]

... in response to You pay either way - which has the least..., posted by thesearch on May 9, 2002

A couple of thoughts.  As you said, sending the money may be the least expensive in the short term. But, I can not help thinking that every time we send money to a scammer we are making this all the more difficult for the future.  Everytime a scammer succeeds it only encourages more scamming.

This is why I still think it is  the best policy to send no money until you have met.

[thesearch]

... in response to Re: You pay either way - which has the l..., posted by Philb on May 10, 2002


It is about how much he wants to see this lady and if he will not, can not go to her town - how much he is willing to risk financially  to make it happen.

I still say that if he is not going to see her where she lives and he is making it a requirement that she come to him, he needs to be sensitive to her finances relative to such and to also respect her concerns that he will not show. They have risks just like we do.

So what if one sends money to a scammer for a train ticket. It is not like sending money every month to a lady who it turns out is living with her boy friend who happens to be more her age than the fool who is sending the money.  You are not going to be able to always predict a lady who will not show plain and simple. So, what are you going to do? Not play the game?  This just goes with the territory.  I think that we can worry too much about this stuff. Sure we do not want to encourage the scammers - but I do not see how we are going to avoid it other than not going over there.

It is just money. You have to calculate loss into this - expect it. You are better off to blow some money on some women who do not show then to make a trip where you were too cautious and ended up not meeting any women. The time you spend over there is far more important than some money you might loose.
I sent a lot of money to a lady to purchase her ticket to meet me, then after that she  told me she had to have $400 on her person to prove that she would be able to pay expenses once she arrived at our meeting destination. This came after I sent the money for the ticket. Then after this she comes to me a third time telling me she has to stay in Kiev two nights layover because of connection problems etc. and she needed money for this also.  Well it was all starting to sound fishy with coming back to me three times for more reasons for money.

However, I had corresponded for a good time, we had talked on the phone with an interpreter several times. So, it was time to put up or shut up.

I will admit that I had in the back of my head thoughts that she might not show. She was there at the airport waiting for me. She gave me the $400 that evening. I realize this is different than this other situation but in some ways it is not. He wants to see her, if she needs to funds to make the trip - he either provides it or chooses not to see her if she is not able to come up with the funds herself.  If he is not able to spend enough time with her in correspondence prior - well that is the way it goes. There will always be risk and he who thinks he can avoid it should not be here. Yes you should try and reduce your risk but one can get so focused on this that they get in the way of success. Just my thoughts about this whole process.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: You pay either way - which has the l..., posted by Philb on May 10, 2002

Phil,

I agree in principal. Same idea as if you don't pay kidnappers, they'll stop kidnapping... right?

But, kidnapping still happens. Why? Because SOMEONE pays. The guys on this board make up a very small percentage of the guys who are writing to these scammers and sending them money.

If everyone on the board pledged to never send money again (which you'd never get people on here to do) we still wouldn't "Starve" the scammer.

So, I think a judicial use of money can be a good thing.

At least he's not sending $100 a month to help some woman out because he felt sorry for her. (I can't remember who on here did that... but someone did).

He never mentioned how much he even sent for the gift. We might be talking a very small amount here...

The point is that we are trying to draw a portrait of a woman that we've never seen. Whatever light we can use, to get a better image of her, is valid.

IMHO

[Philb]

... in response to Feeding the scammer, posted by MarkInTx on May 10, 2002

Yes, I was speaking in general and we all know about generalizations:).  Also, this was really directed toward cornell guy and the advice he was given.  I believe we are talking about a much larger sum of money here (airfare vs gift for child).

[thesearch]

... in response to A Question For Tim (And Anyone Else With..., posted by CornellGuy on May 9, 2002

If your requirement is that she make this trip to meet you, you are in my thinking obligated to pay for this trip.

Time is money on a trip to the FSU. When women agree to travel to meet you, you have to look at what it would cost you in time and finances for you to go see her. You would not think of asking her to pay for a side trip to go meet her.

So, even if she does not show and runs with the money, you are still out a lot less than if you went to meet her if that makes sense. There comes a time in which you have to move forward and commit to expense. Only you know when it is time. You can tell her that you will pay for her fair and that you would like to give it to her when you meet and for her to simply let you know what the cost of her transportation will be. How she handles this will help you to better know more about her. However, she may be having issues about this like you. Questions in her head could be "What if I go to SPB and he does not show." She may need the security of knowing that if you provide round trip ticket up front she will at least be able to get back home with only loss of time and cost of food.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to A Question For Tim (And Anyone Else With..., posted by CornellGuy on May 9, 2002

If it were possible, I would rather give her the money in St. Pb.

If not possible.... I would try to get someone like Jack, who has agents, buy the ticket for her. Although I think a train ticket can be refunded... so she could still take the money and run... at least you have some more sense that the ticket was actually purchased

At some point in all of this, you WILL have to start trusting...

As far as an economics thing, though.... If she came to meet me... I would DEFINITELY pay for the trip. (Or at least offer to.)

[MarkInTx]

... in response to The double edged sword - (Comment for Ne..., posted by thesearch on May 8, 2002


You bring up a good point.

Everyone hears over and over again not to send money. I think, however, that there are times when you have to send money ... as long as its on your terms.

In your case, a small amount of money sent told you much about the lady. It may have saved you much more money (because the data you received helps keep you from getting emotionally involved and rushing to put together a trip just to see her...)

This, I think, is a good example of a time to send money.

There are also ways that money can be used as "bait" to see how the woman reacts. Without actually sending it...

(And please... no one flame me about being paranoid, or whatever... I think some common sense things are needed to help separate the wheat from the chaff...)

I sometimes will tell a lady that I cannot come for awhile to her country. And then, later, I will mention that my company has an office in Germany (true) so I can possibly get to Germany much sooner. (True) So, I will simply comment that it would be nice if somehow I could see her in Germany.

What does this do? You would be surprised at how many women jump at this. I have been told "Of course I can come to Germany. All it takes is money."

There is some truth to this, of course. Visas can be "bought" with the help of a travel agency. But it is a lot of money, and it is not guaranteed.

Is this an example a scammer? Not neccessarily. She may be sincere. But it shows an attitude towards my money that concerns me.

Personally, the answer I am looking for is not: "If you send me huge gobs of cash, I will come meet you anywhere..." It is: "Do not worry. I will wait to see you whenever you come over here. What's another month or two? For me to travel to Germany would be far too expensive. I do not have it, and I will not permit you to waste your money like that..."

There are other variations. If she lives in Kherson, and you are going to Ukraine... you can tell her that you would like to meet her someplace romantic. Let her suggest ideas. If she suggests an expensive resort on the Black Sea, you are starting to get an idea of what "romantic" is for her, and how she sees you: As a person to make her fantasies of a better life come true. (BTW, I agree that you should meet the lady in her home town. But it is interesting to see the response when you suggest meeting someplace else...)

If you tell her you could meet her in Odessa (or some large town) wait and see what her response is. She would take a train to meet you. Does she ask you for money for the train? If you offer it, does she accept?

Look for the little clues.

Once a lady from Russia was mailing me a package. It had some souvenirs in it, some postcards, and some photos. I offered to send her money to cover the postage.

Her response was: "Excuse me? I thought I told you I was sending you a gift. How can you expect to pay me for your own gift?"

The point is that if you are open-minded, you will see the woman's character easily.

The "Scam" stories you hear are from men who, in my opinion, did not use simple common sense. The easiest way to get scammed is to tell yourself you will be married to a beautiful woman by ________. (Fill in the date). Or tell yourself you will be married after three trips. Or one tour. Or whatever. These people make life decisions very foolishly.

As my father used to tell me: "A fool and his money... are lucky to get together in the first place..."

[BrianN]

... in response to Good Points re: Money and Trust, posted by MarkInTx on May 9, 2002

[thesearch]

... in response to Good Points re: Money and Trust, posted by MarkInTx on May 9, 2002

asd

[William]

... in response to The double edged sword - (Comment for Ne..., posted by thesearch on May 8, 2002

Just a thought, search.
Perhaps you are being a bit over cautious.
The business with the routing numbers is a 'yellow' flag, perhaps.
If she has friends or fellow workers who are corresponding with
AMs, she may have heard about the routing business and even some problems with Western Union. May not have gotten the correct info herself and assumed that THAT was the way it is/was supposed to be done.
Of course she is eager( to some degree) to meet you, many AMs never show up or even seriously consider going there.  
Saying the she wants to marry a western man is, perhaps, being honest. Many, maybe most, think that  even if they don't say it.
We think the  the desire to come to America will tip the scales in our direction as well. We don't say that, but in the back of our mind it's there anyway.
You have more experience at this than I, so just take this as a
few ramblings of a bystander.
Regards.