Reply to Charles

[Jack]

Charles,

 You had asked a very good, sincere and tough question. Sometimes when Patrick deletes a bunch of BS some good questions and replies can be swept away. I think you asked a very valid, one deserving of an answer, question.

 Your question was very good and to summerize for those who did not read it, you were questioning what you might do if you were in a similar situation. What if you were planning on meeting several ladies but in the process the first, or second, lady you met you fell in love with or you felt she was the one for you.

 To me the answer is simple. And to reinforce my stance and position regarding this situation, in addition to it being written out for the client to read, I personaly go over it with every man so that there is no mis-communication.

Charles let's assume you have worked hard for several months and have developed a real sincere interest with seven wonderful ladies and each of these ladies are just as excited and sincere to meet you. As you leave America in your heart and mind you feel as though you could marry anyone of these seven ladies.

You have a well thought out plan. On the first full day you are in St. Petersburg you will meet four of these ladies and on the second day you will meet the other three.

Three weeks before your arrival you suggested to each of these seven ladies that your first meeting should only be a couple of hours, before we plan what we might do for the next several days or week, let's have a two hour meeting first and see if we have real interest in each other. Almost every lady will agree to this first two hour meeting because in reality, for the sincere women, they are just as curious and nervous as to if there is chemistry with him.

On your first day Charles you have a light lunch at 11:00 am and 2PM and a light dinner at 5pm and 8pm. The second day you have lunch at 12 noon, light dinner at 4 and at 8pm. If you are lucky you might have chemistry with one of these ladies, d@mn lucky if you have potential chemistry with two of them. However, three days earlier, in your mind and heart, you had chemistry with all seven.

So Charles you meet your 11:00 lunch date and she is sweet and nice, but not the chemistry you are seeking for a lasting marriage. So you go to your 2:00pm meeting and ....WOW, YOU ARE IN LOVE, she is everything, beauty, poise, sexy, humerous, stunning, of class and culture. I know she is the one for me, WOW, this is her!!!

Charles, do you not go to your 5pm dinner? What do you do? .. Do you not go to your 8pm dinner? Do you go to the phone and cancel your dates with the three ladies you are to meet at 12 noon, 4 and 8pm tomorrow??? ......Think about it for a second. What do you do?

Knowing the kind of man I think you are Charles, you are going to proceed with meeting your 5 and 8pm meetings as well as the three ladies planned for tomorrow. You are probably going to ask this lady you just met at 2pm if you can see her the day after tomorrow.

It's the same thought process, to me anyway, if you are doing this in one, or two, cities.

The type of client who would not see the 5 and 8pm dates, or the ladies tomorrow is not the type of client I want. End of our professional working relationship right then and there if you are this type of guy.

Do you know that we had a client on this trip who fell in love with a lady he met at the second Odessa party! They spent all remaining time together. He even brought this lady to Kiev with him. In an e-mail to me he said he was very thankful and happy for the events that had occurred. He had just met a wonderful lady, one he would like to bring over on a K-1 visa. In his e-mail he also stated that out of respect for the ladies he had invited to the Kiev parties, and to help maintain the integrity of the parties, he would be there. His girlfriend stayed at his flat while he went to the parties. A class man if you ask me. And he is not the first client to have done this.

A somewhat funny true story. A very nice fella who post on the board here maybe one or twice a month, and has for a few years, went to the FSU about two years ago and I helped him. He went to meet four ladies and had a few on his back-up list. Most the ladies did not speak English well enough so he had an interpreter. Well, when he met his first date, that was it, he was in love. He told the interpreter she was the one for him, no need in seeing any of the other ladies. The interpreter didn't know what to do or say. So she called me right away. I forgot now if I called him on the phone or sent him an e-mail but I was corresponding with him only a short time later. I think I called him at his flat. I talked to him for just a few minutes and he agreed to meeting the other lady planned for the next day, and the other two ladies. So the next day he meets lady number two. WOW!~!@! this is the one for me, she is hot!!!! No need to see anymore ladies! Again the interpreter called me. {Now this is a very true story!} And I called him again and WOW she was beautiful and she really liked him. Ok, well let's see the other two, ok,... he said he would. The next day he meets lady number three and WOW, this is really the one, but he went ahead and met the fourth and last lady. This man married the fourth and last lady he saw. Today they have a small child and are living happily everafter.

When I met my dreambride she was the 3rd of 7 ladies I was to meet in Odessa. I knew I had good feelings about her and asked her if I could see her the day after tomorrow. I went ahead and saw the remaining ladies to see that day, as well as those planned for the next day, none other captured my interest. I spent my remaining days in Odessa with her. I had several ladies to meet in Kiev, including one lady who was flying in from Kazakhstan. Did I stand these ladies up? Did I decide NOT to go to Kiev? Did I call them and tell them I wouldn't be there? Even though I knew I had found someone very special, maybe my future bride, I followed thru with my commitments.

For the 1000th time I will say that all guys are different and not all guys are going to like the way I do things or suggest things. If you don't accept my wanting you to go to any party that you have invited ladies too, even after finding your dreambride, then don't sign up on my group tour, it's real simple. I customize our group tours around the 12 individuals. All I ask is that you be at a certain place at a certain time on Friday and Saturday for four hours. You do that and we will get along just fine and will have all my help and support.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Reply to Charles, posted by Jack on Apr 30, 2002

I can see no fault with Jack's methods.  To me it makes a tremendous amount of sense.  My problems are finding women pretty enough, buying the addresses and writing letters prior to going over.  It is such a low yield process that I just do not want to do it - and I think it is integral to his method.  Again it makes sense, but it is too hard for me to do.

[Mark H]

... in response to Reply to Charles, posted by Jack on Apr 30, 2002

Jack,
As one of the guys who did what "I" wanted to do, I have to disagree with this post. This is the initial issue that set us apart. I disagree with your post, completely. As a consumer, I decide WHEN WHERE, and with WHOM I meet or do anything else with. I think this is the problem I had with you and your agency. If a man finds a woman he clicks with, that is his business. Is it the "jack" super technique?? No, but it's the MAN's technique. This is why anyone should be leary doing business with you. It is nice that you put it in black and white for all to see. You basically said "DO IT MY WAY OR DON"T DO IT AT ALL". Well, I will do it Mark's way, not Jack's way.

If the reader looks closely at what you are saying, it is the following: "I don't care how much money or time you spend searching for a woman, as long as you make my parties and don't disappoint my girls." That's ridiculous. You are proving Odessaman and Dimitry right when you say things like that. You really think that all men are stupid? Do you really think that all men are going to blindly fall for the first piece of butt that comes along? My trip with you was my FIFTH. Not my first. WHen I met a girl I liked, I had no reason to continue on with my trip. I think your post above finally shows all what really upset you. YOUR STAFF didn't make the money you promised them in Dnepetrovsk. To be honest, that is not my fault. I know you weren't singly me out in your post but the overtones were huge. As always, I will continue to do what I want.

What is the point in leaving your chick in an apartment alone for 4 hours while you go to a party with a bunch of other women? Lead the other women on? Waste their time? Or not to let them know their time is being wasted, pretending that the men are available. SOUNDS LIKE A SCAM AGENCY TO ME SCAMMING THE CHICKS. What do you say to that? Aren't you scamming them? You're lying and misrepresenting the availability of the men? That's really classy.

Many guys don't have enough vacation time as it is and need to cherish every moment with their girl once they find her. Now you're placing stipulations on them that they MUST attend your parties or get no support from you? Screw your support. Grown men, especially grown men making and spending their own money should do what is best for THEM, not your staff. It's your job to keep your staff happy, not mine or any other man. If the guy pays you a lump of cash to go on a trip and he cuts it short, perhaps you can spread the wealth and cut into your own profits to keep your staff happy. It's called business.

Now, this should be fun watching you whine and posture around like a girl.
Mark H.

[odeccaman1]

... in response to Once again we disagree....., posted by Mark H on May 1, 2002

my low opinion of jack. your posts a few months ago were quite prophetic. the bragger has so many people who despise him in UKR, it will be dangerous for him/his many clients to travel here. despite his all knowing sales pitch he knows remarkably little about business here

[Dan]

... in response to thanks Mark for confirming, posted by odeccaman1 on May 2, 2002

Threatening Jack??

- Dan

[Jeff]

... in response to Once again we disagree....., posted by Mark H on May 1, 2002

If you pay the total bill agreed upon before you go, then what should it matter if you see the other ladies or not?  I agree that it is scamming the women, and I think there is enough misrepresentation by some of these men without leading them on when you know your not interested.  I am not trying to bash Jack or anything, but all these arguments and childish behavior between agencies proves one thing.  That is that with a little thought and preparation, a person can find what they are looking for without having someone holding their hand.  Sure it is nice to have someone taking care of your travel needs, but when it comes to actually meeting women you have lots of other options than to deal with someone who has dollar signs in their eyes.  Again, I am not talking about one agency or the other, but I am sure some are better than others.

[Jack]

... in response to Once again we disagree....., posted by Mark H on May 1, 2002

We agree Mark!!!   We both agree on something!

I only want to deal with men who will keep there committments and appoinments with ladies they ask to arrange meetings with and you want to see who you want, when you want, and don't want anyone telling you what you can do. What's the problem?

My stance and approach to this is very clear, I state so in writing and verbally,....."If you invite ladies to meet you, ladies that YOU choose, no matter what agency or source they came from, and we contact these ladies and they agree to meet you, then you must meet these ladies, no matter even if you think you found your dreambride. If you do not agree to this, then do not do business with me. I do not force men to do business with me, they can agree to this, or not. Men agree to this or we don't do business with each other. All 12 men who just went on the group tour agreed to this. They didn't all honor there committment and word to me and as such all I can do to show my great disappoinment in them is to not associate myself with them any longer.

The man in Nikolaev over the last week who decided he would rather see this one woman in Nikolaev and not see the six ladies he had asked to meet in Kiev knew and agreed to this. This was no secret. He acknowledged to me his understanding of this requirement at least three times. This man let me down, my staff down, 6 ladies who were excited to meet him, as well as another 60 ladies at the two parties who thought there would be x-number of sincere, marriage-minded men at the parties. Men who do this do not only NOT care about the feelings of the ladies he had asked to meet but also do not care about the integerity of the parties. A man like this I have no respect for, period.

We are both right Mark. You can elect to do business with any person, any agency, you want and if you don't like there rules, you don't have to do business with them. I am also right and that I tell all prespective clients these are my rules, if you don't like them, if you don't agree to them, then you MUST do business with someone else.

So Mark, we are both right!  You do things your way, and of course you feel they are right. I do things my way and I feel I am right.  

I do take exception to one statement you make above Mark.

You write,..as long as you make my parties and don't disappoint MY girls".  Mark, these ladies attending these parties come from many different agencies and sources. Ladies come from the Anastasia and European Connection catalogs, ladies come from AFA, World Class and many, many
different agencies. None of these women are MY women, they are the women that the individual men have invited. What I do care about Mark are the feelings of each of these ladies, no matter if they come from my agency or any of these other agencies!

Hey now Mark, was that fun???  Did I whine and posture around like a good girl?

[Mark H]

... in response to We agree....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Jack on May 1, 2002

The whining and posturing was to ensure a dramatic post!
I think I owe you a partial apology, I didn't know the circumstances of which you were writing. My situation was nothing like you mention above. You wrote:

"I only want to deal with men who will keep there committments and appoinments with ladies they ask to arrange meetings with "  -------------My trip that I took and you blew your top on......I never made appointments or contacts with any ladies. None.  Hmmmm.

"If you invite ladies to meet you, ladies that YOU choose, no matter what agency or source they came from, and we contact these ladies and they agree to meet you, then you must meet these ladies, no matter even if you think you found your dreambride" -----------I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. We agree here. However, in my situation that you blew your top over.....I never invited ANY ladies to meet me, not from ANY agency. Hmmmmm.

"The man in Nikolaev over the last week who decided he would rather see this one woman in Nikolaev and not see the six ladies he had asked to meet in Kiev"-------Once again, I never asked any ladies to meet me anywhere.

"Men who do this do not only NOT care about the feelings of the ladies he had asked to meet "----------yet again, you speak of ladies a man has asked to meet.

I didn't do any of that and you jumped the shiit out of me. All I did was not go to another city. I had no girls lined up, no dates, no contacts, no nothing. Now, in light of your qualification of "what pisses you off about men who don't keep their commitments"...what did I do? None of the forementioned. Perhaps now you see what I was so upset and disappointed in your rantings about my trip.

Mark H.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: We agree....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Mark H on May 1, 2002

Mark,
As I see it, you had authorized Jack to set up a number of "blind dates" for you in the other city.  You felt no personal obligation to meet the women because you had no personal contact with them.  Jack's people did have the personal contact.  You not following through on the original plan put them in an uncomfortable situation with the girls and frustrated because of the unrewarded effort put forth.  The rest of the story is two strong-willed men butting heads!  LOL.
KenC

[Jack]

... in response to Re: We agree....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by Mark H on May 1, 2002

MarkH, I accept your partial apology and am very gratified that even you agree with many of my statements.

The main reason I got upset with you Mark was because we agreed, you and I, after much debating, talking on the phone, raising all pros and cons and coming to a mutual agreement on you going to go spend some four or five days in Dnepropetrovsk. After we reached this agreement, as I re-call now, about two weeks before you were to leave, we ran some ads for you and got a pretty good response rate. All preparations for your trip, well about 90% of the prepartion for your trip, was planned for Dnepropetrovsk. I told you personaly one week before you left that you were going to be quite surprised with the number of replies you had and the number of ladies you would be able to meet. Up until the day you left for Ukraine all our plans were directed at, per YOUR instructions, to spend several days in Dnepropetrovsk. On your very first, or second, night in Kiev you meet some 3 or 4 ladies,  and you really fell for one of these Kiev ladies and in your e-mail that you sent me you said "Thanks, am having wonderful time in Kiev, will not be going to Dnepropetrovsk". To which I replied back to you that we, Firstdream, would continue to support you on your current trip but once we saw you off at the airport that we would be terminating our working relationship.

You were right in that you did what you wanted to do, no one was telling you where you had to go, and I was right in electing to terminate our working relationship. Again, we were both right! In your mind you were right in doing what you did and in my mind I was right in doing what I did. You have no regrets about what you did in not going to Dnepropetrovsk, as you had met one, maybe two, ladies that you had great interest in. In my mind I feel I was correct in terminating any future work between us. You disagree with how I prefer to do things and you have the right not to work with me.

And although it is best that we not work with each other, I still hope the best for you and will as best I can keep a watchful eye open for you. I, as much as anyone else on this board, hope that you do find that very special Russian woman as I know she will change your life forever and for the better. Although you and I will go about the process differently, I still hope and want for you to be successful.

[BrianN]

... in response to Reply to Charles, posted by Jack on Apr 30, 2002

It shows just how vulnerable the male mind can be.

....

:^)

[wsbill]

... in response to Reply to Charles, posted by Jack on Apr 30, 2002

Ok... I want everyone to submit to me atleast 10-25 question you asked your lady during your inital meeting.

If you like you can e-mail me them.

windshieldsbill@nospam.com

But I want every guy to atleast look over this list I am putting together, of question to ask a girl.

Some will be good questions, some not.  But atleast, you can throw questions at her and get some sort of a response.

It's like Jack said... Meet them all.  

And ask them questions,.........