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Author Topic: My experience with this  (Read 20233 times)
Phillip
Guest
« on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

I was just reading some of the messages on this board.  I wanted to post my experiences with meeting someone like this to try and help people who may be thinking about doing it or have already started.  
    I decided to use the services of such an agency (European Connections in Atlanta, if you are interested) in late 1996.  I bought a couple of their catalogs and finally decided I liked a lovely redhead from Ukraine in their February 97 catalog.  I bought her address and wrote to her in April.  We communicated through letters and faxes for about 4 weeks before I decided to go and visit her.  I made the arrangements and went to Ukraine in July.  That two-week period was one of the most incredible and special times of my life.  I proposed to her four days after I met her, and in April of 1998 she became my wife.  We recently celebrated our 4th wedding anniversary.  It has been difficult at times, and being married to her is sometimes like being strapped to a rocket, but I would not change anything for all the world (the difficulties we had stem much more from personality differences than cultural).  In short, I found my true love and soul mate.  I want to share with you some insight into what you can and should expect from my experiences, as well as hers (ironically, she worked for a time with the very same agency that I used as a translator/interpreter).  

    Let's start with the process before you select an agency

- Don't worry about what your friends or family think if you are serious about this.  Most of them will tell you that you are completely insane, and then start relating a story about a friend's cousin who did this and the lady and her friends robbed him or something.
- Think about age differences.  While it is true that age differences are much less important to Soviet women, there are limits.  When my wife worked as a translator, she told me funny stories of men in their 70's getting angry with women in their 20's not being interested in them...
- Keep in mind that there will be great differences in cultures.  Do at least some research about the culture and news in the country (ies) you expect to visit.  It wouldn't hurt to learn a few words and phrases in Russian, and to learn to read the Cyrillic alphabet.  This not only will serve you well when you visit, but will also serve two other purposes:  1) The lady will be very pleased that you took the time, and 2) this will give you an edge over about 60% of the other guys contacting her.
- Remember what the ladies want.  Some people will tell you that they are looking for a better life and a way out of their country.  So what?  The truth is that many of them are also looking for a stable and loving home, and someone to care about them and give them kindness and attention.  In general, Soviet women are indeed more feminine and traditional than their Western counterparts.  They will love you in return.  
- Remember what you are doing.  Be serious about this, and respectful of the ladies.  You are seeking a wife, not buying a car.  A cavalier or arrogant attitude will get you nowhere fast.  
- Many of the ladies have very young children.  A few were never married.  Unfortunately, this is more common than you realize, because of a) the mortality rate of men there, and more likely b) Being unmarried is still considered somewhat shameful because of their traditions.  A lot of men will either make promises, or get married and then just leave, with obvious results.  If children don't bother you, don't let this put you off too much.

    A few ideas about correspondence

- When you send letters, it is best to use registered or certified mail, or even a company like DHL or FedEx.  The postal workers routinely open mail over there, because they are looking for money and stamps, and it is never delivered.  Besides, if you send your first letter express mail, the lady will get it much quicker.
- Try to correspond with ladies that have at least a small proficiency in English.  This makes it easier to get to know her, because you don't have the additional layer of translators.
- Be respectful and polite in the first letter.  Tell her about yourself and your life, your country, and why you decided to write to her.  Put in a photo.  Flattery is OK as long as it's sincere.  Don’t ramble, but don’t feel like you have to make it too short either.

    Now, about using an agency and travel arrangements

- This one is obvious - choose a large agency that has been in business a while.  The larger ones will be listed with the BBB, hopefully.  
- Consider only buying catalogs and addresses from the agency, and making the travel arrangements yourself.  Most of them charge 2-3 thousand USD for a tour where you see dozens of ladies, but it is better to just choose one or a few ladies you are interested in meeting and arranging to meet them yourself.  Use a good travel agency (I used Russia House in Atlanta).  They can get you a good airline ticket, and your visa.  This takes about 2 weeks regular post, or quicker for express mail if you pay more.  
- Don't forget if you are taking a connecting flight through Europe to get a Schoengen Visa, if you plan to leave the airport.
- Many people told me that I would need a letter of invitation to obtain a visa, but I got mine just fine without it.  You may want to check with the travel agency or a consular to see if this has changed.
- Don't be reckless, but speed is of the essence.  One of the reasons that my wife was interested in me was because I was one of the first ones to write, and I was the first one that arranged to meet her.  It may sound cutthroat, but getting the jump on your competition may give you the winning advantage.  Sometimes the winner is the first, not the best.

    When you travel to meet her

- Be sure to take enough money.  Be careful, but don't be cheap.  If you are staying in her apartment or with her family, offer to help pay rent or expenses.  I didn't do this, and I still get ribbed for it from time to time Smiley  Also, you will often be pegged as a Westerner (Westerner = money), so expect to suddenly have to pay a lot more for things.  Also learn what an 'obmin valyoot' is (currency exchange desk).  They are usually nearby, and it's much better than getting money on the black market (and safer, too).
- Even though you have to fill out a customs declaration form, I have found that the customs officials don't even bother to check your bags if they know you are a Westerner, so you shouldn't have too much hassle in Customs.  Check about this to be sure, though, because things may have changed.
- Don't be afraid to take gifts.  I took some, but I was afraid to give all of them to her because I was afraid she would think it was a bribe.  I gave them to her over here, and she later told me that 'bribery' of this kind is just fine!  Take traditional gifts; as far as price, I'll let you judge this one.  But also consider additional items that are not available there, but be careful not to be insulting.  Stuff like candy, chocolate, and peanut butter (or whatever is equivalent in your country) is fine.  I wouldn't recommend something too personal like cosmetics or toiletries, unless she mentions what she likes and you think it would be OK.
- Remember the customs of where you are going.  We were visiting Kyiv, and every time we went to a shop my wife would say 'deengy, deengy!'  She later explained it to me.  In Ukraine, at least in Kyiv, it is expected for the customer to have money in hand BEFORE selecting the purchase and paying.  Taking your wallet out after being told the price is considered rude.  That's why it pays to do a little research, and ask some questions.  The lady will probably be glad to assist you in cultural matters.
- Remember where you are going.  The former Soviet Union isn't exactly the Third World, but you must remember that there is a great deal of disrepair and decay mixed in with the scenery.  Don't comment on it, just sit back and enjoy the beautiful parts.  Driving is problematic at best, so it's best to use public transportation to get around (which is surprisingly good; the Kyiv Metro has a better schedule and routes than MARTA in Atlanta!).  You can also get taxis, but sometimes people with autos will hang around major tourist areas to give rides.  Either will run anywhere from $5 to $10.  Be prepared to do a great deal of walking.  The lady will most likely want to be your tour guide; by all means, let her.  Be enthusiastic about where she takes you.
- Get your visa stamped.  If you are staying in a hotel, they should do this for you.  If you are staying somewhere else, get it done at the local police station.  The second time I went to Ukraine (after we got married, on family business), I got nailed at the airport by a guard.  I had to take a trip to the police station and fill out forms (in small print, on both sides, filled out by hand by an officer who spoke little or no English...) and pay a $100 fine.  Almost missed my flight.
- Take some, to be discreet, protection.  You never know what's going to happen, and I'm sure most of you would like to avoid having to get TWO visas...
- If you feel really good about the lady, or if you're really bold (or crazy...), take an engagement ring.  I did, and it really paid off when I proposed to my wife.  As far as the proposal, you can do it the way people in your country do it, just be as romantic as possible.  
- Take lots of pictures with you and her.  Take pictures of you with her family.  Keep receipts and hotel bills.  Save the plane tickets.  Keep copies of all written correspondence with her.  All this will be ammunition when you apply for the K-1 Visa and when she has to get her temporary residence once she gets here.
- One more thing.  Be prepared to deal with people’s reaction when you are with her in public and they find out you are a Westerner.  Unfortunately, almost all the time the young women that are accompanying Westerners are taken for prostitutes.  

    Once you get back

- Call or contact her IMMEDIATELY.  Tell her you love her and are still thinking about her.  Reassure her you are serious.  Better yet, contact her from your layover.
- When you get back, start the K-1 application process right away.  Get an immigration attorney if you must, but I think most of you could do it yourself.  It will save you a ton of money, and the lawyer will only speed the process up a little; there's really nothing he or she can do for you that you can't do yourself.
- Keep in contact with her often.  If you don't, she will think you have lost interest or were not serious enough.  Remember that the most popular ladies will get lots of letters, even after you visit them.
- Start gathering up the documents you need.  I don't recall exactly which ones are necessary, but the K-1 application will tell you this.  She will need to provide translated copies of things like her birth certificate and divorce papers (if any).  Send her money to have them translated there, and mail you copies via certified or express mail.  I had my wife mail hers to me, and the assistant attorney had them translated here and mailed back to the consulate.  The divorce document was LOST, and she had to go to the trouble of getting another one.  (Oddly enough, the original turned up later IN HER FILE!  The assistant attorney lost it, and blamed the mail service...).
- For some odd reason, the American Embassies in some of the former Soviet countries' capitals do not have consular services.  The lady may have to travel to another country to get her US entry visa (my wife had to travel to Warsaw).  Pay for this trip if you can.  Be aware that she will also have to travel to the capital city for things like medical exams, immunizations, and so forth.  
- Sit back and wait.  And wait.  And wait some more.  The K-1 application has to go back and forth between the consulate and the INS regional office.  This could take several months.
- Someone told me to buy a two-way ticket for my wife to travel here, so she could avoid customs hassles.  However, she thought that I did it because I wanted to send her back easily if I changed my mind.  A one-way ticket is best if you are really serious and this is an option.

    Once she arrives

- This is a no-brainer, but - pick her up at the airport yourself.  And bring flowers.  Give her a big hug and a kiss and show her that you are glad to see her.
- I don't know about other countries, but you have a 90-day limit here in the US to marry someone on a K-1 visa or she must go back.  If you are really in love with this woman, don't make her wait around.  Marry her as soon as you can.  Don't make her sweat and worry.
- Please think, think, THINK before you get this far.  I knew someone who met a lady like I did.  He sent her back after 3 months.  Basically, she gave up her job and said goodbye to her family and friends to come to her new life, then had to slink back to her country in humiliation after tasting life in America.  Her life was basically ruined.  Remember that this is a human life you are dealing with.  Don't treat her like she is just a maid or hide her from the sun like a caged bird, either.
- Remember that you and her will have to go visit the INS very soon after arrival.  She will also need many other documents - a Social Security card, a driver's license, and so forth.  Remember to get her on some sort of medical insurance as soon as possible (dental insurance too - dentistry does not seem to be up to par in some parts of the FSU, so expect a lot of visits to the dentist, at least initially).  
- Enroll her in an ESL (English as a Second Language) class (or whatever your native language is).  Teach her some yourself.  Take an interest in her questions about language.  Teach her idioms and slang when she is ready to learn it.  Talk to her slowly and clearly without being condescending, and have patience.  Be sure to give her the chance to speak the language as often and as much as possible.
- Teach her about your country and culture.  Remember that there are other things she will have to learn that are second-nature to you, but different or unknown in her country, like grocery shopping, driving, writing checks, getting a credit card, and so on.
- Give her something to do.  Try to find her some friends that speak her language.  Let her call home often (calling cards and special rates to the FSU are more common than you think).  Get her a part-time job or a hobby.  There's probably nothing worse than being stuck at home by yourself in a country where you don't speak the language well.
- Remember the wonderful, romantic dream that was the time you spent together in her country?  Well, this is the time where reality sets in.  You were both new to each other and on your very best behavior.  Everyday habits, cultural differences, personality clashes, and idiosyncrasies are doubled because you didn't have a lot of time to get to know each other.  Plus, she is scared and away from her family and friends in a new country.  Be very patient and give it lots of time.

    In the long term

- I don't mean to scare you, but a lot of times women from the FSU (or other countries) will get to America and really put on weight.  This is mostly due to two things - 1) The food in America is so much higher in fats and sugars that the common diet over there, and a lot of things that are uncommon there (like toast and ice cream) will be new treats for her.  She may get carried away;  2) Most people over there do A LOT of walking.  Most people here drive.  This, plus a sedentary lifestyle at home, leads to out-of-shape-ness.  Be discreet about mentioning this.  A good diet and exercise should help prevent this, and it will help you too.  (I guess I got lucky - it happened to the lady that met the guy I mentioned above, but not to my wife; even so, we try to watch what we eat and stay active when we can).
- Enjoy your new life!

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Mick
Guest
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to My experience with this, posted by Phillip on May 1, 2002

Phil,

Good post, I am sure that many guys here appreciated a lot such a detailed information.
You mentioned the necessity of getting the visa stamped in Ukraine; I believe that you meant the technical procedure known as registration of your visa. If so, this has been abolished in the middle of last year, that means no registration of your visa (or stamping) is no longer required. Your passport will be stamped on entry, and that's all.
Anybody please correct me if I'm wrong as this is based on my experience from August 2001.
Thanks again for your post Phil.

Mick

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William
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to My experience with this, posted by Phillip on May 1, 2002

I was drawn to your comment:"being married to her is sometimes like being strapped to a rocket,".
Does this mean that the redhead stereotypes are true; or does it mean that younger russian women are 'something else', or
is it a combination of both???
Inquiring minds what to know.
William
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Phillip
Guest
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: My experience with this, posted by William on May 3, 2002

I honestly don't know.  I suspect it's a little about being Soviet (I have heard certain rumors that they can be very, well, direct), but I would vote in favor of the Redhead theory Smiley  The funniest thing that happened to us involving this is the Scottish gent at the British festival that took her for a wee Scottish lass.  

I was drawn to your comment:"being married to her is sometimes like being strapped to a rocket,".
Does this mean that the redhead stereotypes are true; or does it mean that younger russian women are 'something else', or
is it a combination of both???
Inquiring minds what to know.
William


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SteveM
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: My experience with this, posted by Phillip on May 3, 2002

I would second the (Russian) x (Redhead) = Rocket Trip theory, based on my personal experience.  It's been a really great ride, except for the few times I was sitting under the rocket on the launching pad when the engines ignited...
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BrianN
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: My experience with this, posted by William on May 3, 2002

no matter how it happens.

That statement by itself, truly deserves an honorable mention.

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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to My experience with this, posted by Phillip on May 1, 2002

I haven't seen much discussion on this... but...

Do all of you guys get pre-nups signed?

Or have you never even considered that?

On another board, someone said that you should get a prenup signed while you are there, and pay for her lawyer, who will translate it for her.

What have all of you guys done?


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William
Guest
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to One Question though, posted by MarkInTx on May 1, 2002

Excellent posts in regards to pre-nups.  
I would add that it might be a real good idea, if you all are
worried about being cleaned out in a divorce, to consult with a
real good divorce lawyer AND also an experienced estate lawyer.
They are NOT the same thing.  
Also talk to a CPA that has done some estate work.
There are several ways to secure you assets before you get married. Joint ownership with a child you wish to give a house too, for example. Trusts of various kinds are are also useful.
The problem with all this, of course, is that many people are
reluctant to give up any control  of their assets and/or possessions at all. They pay the price in estate taxes and so forth.
At least this is something to consider.
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BubbaGump
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to One Question though, posted by MarkInTx on May 1, 2002

Others have said you should bring her over here if you intend to get a prenup.  If she has objections and you have to rewrite it, I hope you can get a hold of your American lawyer then.  

In prenups you need to list all your assets and be conservative.  If you hide assets, that could nullify the agreement.  

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JR
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to One Question though, posted by MarkInTx on May 1, 2002

.
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MarkInTx
Guest
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to how does one say? " I love you, but..., posted by JR on May 1, 2002


Protection is protection...

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JR
Guest
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Same way you say I love you, But I'm goi..., posted by MarkInTx on May 2, 2002

.
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JR
Guest
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to how does one say? " I love you, but..., posted by JR on May 1, 2002

how smart your lawyer is, always remember she will fine a smarter one Smiley)
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Stan
Guest
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to One Question though, posted by MarkInTx on May 1, 2002

Thought about it but I didn't. I hated to go into something looking to the future for when it would fall apart.
Steve
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Stan B
Guest
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to One Question though, posted by MarkInTx on May 1, 2002

and call me a fool, but I'm really not worried about it. The house is still in my name and we have discussed that if we did split, all that she'd want is whats fair (whatever that is :-) And my reply is that she can have 1/2 of everything we've gained since our marriage.
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