ending my engagement..?

[SteveD]

Hi guys,

I met my fiancee last August in Kiev and since then I've visited 4 times as well. I guess we've spent about 5 weeks together in total.

The last 2 months have been spent planning to bring her over on a fiancee visa and we havn't really made much progress to be honest. The documentation seems to be taking a long time to get together. I sense that both of us seem to be dragging our feet a little on the whole process and I'm just wondering whether deep down we both realise that we are not in love.

I really can't put my fingure on exactly what it is that's wrong, I mean 95% of the time everything is perfect, and then bang... she will say something on the phone that will really piss me off. For example I called her the other day and we hadn't spoken for a week so I was thinking that she would be really excited to hear from me. Anyway as it turned out she was feeling a bit down ( the weather is bad at the moment plus she's not working ) and it really came across on the phone. After about 5 minutes she said " Look, I don't want you to be upset, but I've got a terrible headache and I need to make myself a cup of tea. Can you call me back later on?"

Well unfortunately I was upset and I told her so before eventually hanging up. I don't know, am I being unreasonable or what. For Christ's sake I'm her fiancee, yet she would rather make a cup of tea then chat to me on the phone. She knows that I'm going to be upset when she says such things, yet she still goes ahead and says it anyway.

Also, she's always late, has been since our first date, and she knows I hate it (we've had many arguments about this and she's been in tears once or twice) yet she just carries on being late.

Whenever I try to discuss these things with her she always comes up with a good answer and basically puts me down saying that I shoudn't be so unreasonable. And to be honest, she's right. There is no reason why she should change her behaviour to suit my expectations.

Thing is though, if its bugging me this bad already, whats it going to be like when she comes over and we are living together?

Does anyone else have a similar story, especially the phone thing. I mean that I've noticed is that Ukrainians in general don't have a good manor on the phone. thay come across as being really cold and its really off putting when that cold fish on the other end is your fiancee! Maybe I should stop worrying, stop being paranoid.

Then again maybe I should call her up and call the engagement off.

What do you think guys?

STEVE

[RW]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

I think the biggest mistake many of the guys involved into this pursuit do - they try to justify everything because they are afraid to look at the truth and check the reality: so much money already spend on the trip and intepretors, so many trips are done, do I have to start everything all over again?

Many months and years later (or may be not even many?) after that when things don't work out you would look back and see all these "signs" and think "I should have paid attention to it". But that is when it will be TOO late.

Anyways, you know that something is wrong. Otherwise you would not be putting off the paperwork, you would not be so mad about her being late. You would have become one of the guys who considers it a "women" thing and wind the clock  half an hour ahead. You would not care because that is a very minor thing.

I read in your profile that things did not work out and there was no chemistry between you and girl you went to see. Is this the same girl?

Mark has posted before how hard it is to reply to letters that you are not interested in. It takes even more guts to understand when someone is not interested in you. Or be able to make a conversation and find out IF she is interested or not. Don't waste your time. If you like her and it is mutual, start paperwork. If not, call of the engagement. You would only win a respect from her by doing that - that is definitely the quality Russian women and women in general like in the man - make a DECISION....

Russian Wife

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: ending my engagement..?, posted by RW on Jan 25, 2002


I think it went something like:

"Where there is passion, you find a way...

  ...where there is not, you find an excuse."

I have used that saying in my relationships. It helps clarify things for me, anyway...

[tim360z]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

invariably,  get used to it.  Relax and expect it.  Being late is normal for women.  Long ago I learned the 1/2 hour rule.  If you want to leave at say,  7:30...simply tell her "we'll need to leave at 7".  And presto...at 7:28 she will be ready to leave and 2 minutes early too.  Seldom,  will girls be "on time",  it is part of their charm to be late.  Usually,  the only girls "on time" are coming to your hotel room to perform a service.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

Things like this are not uncommon during an engagement and that's why a lot of them get broken off.  Try to get her talking a little more.  It may be other things are worrying her or she has cold feet.  Maybe she's afraid you do not want her.  Women are naturally moody and us men can't understand why.  Maybe her friends criticised her or maybe she's afraid she'll be alone and never make friends.  

If you think neither one of you are interested in doing this then don't.  But don't break it off because each of you thinks the other isn't interested.  Get together again and see how it goes.

[tim360z]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

You gotta figure this one out for yourself.  But,  think about it and maybe things are dark and gloomy for her.  And maybe she needs you to telephone her,  not vice versa.  Theres language and even when one is fluent--- language and words can be such clumsy blocks to manuver.  And think it over...its so easy to jump to a hasty conclusion in all of this.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

Try to go inside her shoes.  Their lives are very hard.  She could be feeling very down - not even you can pick her up.  That feeling may go away if you two are together.  I hate lateness as well - get used to it - or make the decision to cut and run now.  I suggest you continue with the visa.  See how she handles the US.  You can always part your ways before marriage.

[LP]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

....man said: "yahoos on the net". Why would you even be asking them this? You know what to do.

"If she needs you that bad, she must love you very much"

Hey Monsewer, love and need at different things and totally unrelated if you be at all normal. Need is a very bad reason to be with someone.

Of course, thats a pretty tough sell here.

[ChipShot]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

It might be a good thing that she told you she wasn't in a good mood on the phone. Many times, married couples don't communicate feelings or moods, and the wrong interpretations are made. It sounds as though she was trying to be open with you, and letting you know you weren't going to be getting her best effort at that moment. I see her willingness to share this with you as a possible positive.

Since you're considering marriage, it might be a good idea to take a week, and visit her. Use the trip as an affirmation of your intentions, and hers. If she's ambivalent during your visit, then you can talk this over wiht her, and make a decision that is healthy for both of you. You might also look at the style of conflict resolution you employ. Unrestrained fighting is not fun, and really doesn't build a healthy reltaionship. Try to determine if there are ways the two of you can discuss problems, without resorting to fights or attacks. If you can devise a strategy to resolve conflicts, you can have a healthy marriage, whatever the differences.

[thesearch]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

Hi Steve,

I would suspect that you could get a variety of different responses to this one. The one you are going to have to listen to is you. Only you really have the information to go on  whether it be real data or impressions and/or intuition.

If I had to say yes or no to this on merely on what you wrote I would say tell her that you are cancelling the wedding plans for now and will have to reconsider based upon her actions.

You are correct, if a woman is in love she will be excited to hear your voice and will want to talk even if she has a headache. If she is in severe pain, she will leave you cutting the call short with you knowing that she wants to talk but just can not. She will leave you with a warm feeling in your heart by how she did it. If she does not love you moments of clear reality will hit her and when those times come she will change on you. Yes I know that women can be moody but when you start making excuses for behavior - that is when you get into trouble. Previously I presented my no BS tolerance philosophy and it seemed most disagreed with me and felt I was too harsh. With the onset of my years, I have just simply learned to go by my feelings that is all.

If punctuality, is important to you and she understands this
a woman normally will be on her best behavior at least until you are hers. She is not doing this.

Steve, I have found that feelings usually do not lie and when we ignore them we ultimately find out why we should have heeded them.

Steve,  you voiced your feelings - I say go by them. If this woman is truly in love she will not let you do this. She will not let you go.

But, on the other hand if she has green carditis she may be emphatic about getting you back also but, you will still see reflections of her old behavior still present.

Good, luck - I do not envy you right now. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing.

If anyone gives advice to just eat what is going on and rationalize what is happening - it could be the the right advice and mine totally wrong. ONLY YOU WILL KNOW WHAT TO DO.

[Clay]

... in response to finding truth can be hard, posted by thesearch on Jan 24, 2002

I will second this, for sure.  I have personally wasted far too much time rationalizing a woman's actions, and ignoring my gut instincts.  Eventually Reality wins out, and all of the rationalizations become something to kick myself over.  I tolerated so much from AW when I knew deep down the right thing was to let her go and move on.  I know that for me, if I do decide to persue this alternative, I will do it with a zero tolerance policy.  I imagine that most everyone is here for a basic reason - an alternative to the formidable AW.  If you want double speak, grief and someone to bust your chops for the rest of your life, look in your backyard - it's plentiful.  The reason I'm considering this alternative is to hopefully find an ALTERNATIVE to it all.

It's a tough spot you're in, no doubt.  Everyone faces it at one time or another.  The thing to do is to listen to YOUR gut.  It never lies, EVER.  It's your head and your heart that'll jangle you up into a pile of nerves.  I would say you're getting uptight because you have a reason to be, but the issues you have pointed out are only symptoms to a gut reaction you can't quantify.  That gut reaction is that she isn't acting like a woman who loves you, you can feel it right? - why question it.  Think about relationships you have had with women that you know liked you (even a little bit).  She prolly never had a headache (that you knew about), never showed up late (with all due respect to the fellas who posted about their ladies' time to get ready, was she ever late to meet YOU somewhere's?  I'd reckon it was being late when the two of you are going somewhere together - entirely different sitiation.)  She has easy access to call you, but doesn't, and then asks why you didn't call sooner.  I know people will say that you have to constantly reassure a woman about how you feel.  Why?  Do you want to spend the rest of your life consoling the inconsolable - I've tried, it don't work.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this - honest.  I quit trying to give out hard and fast advice a long time ago (IE Yes, No).  But you can't underplay the reality of people's actions towards YOU.  I can tell you I like you while I punch you in the face - what's the reality of my actions versus my words?  Same scenario here, a women can tell you she loves you while she's slapping your heart around - any guy can attest to that.

Kick it around for a few days, you got time to think about it.

Clay

[tfcrew]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

Have reviewed all the responces below.
All very candid..
Ken C, Chas, & myself are the married ones.
Call to break the engagement? Perhaps not.
I wouldn't. Not good form, I guess.
Take more time ....include even   another trip. Why not?
Then you will know eye to eye..
Understand "headaches". Too many there...more here.
This is important.
What else?
Oh, my Svetlana is always ready on time.......Amazing!
Karl

[SteveD]

... in response to ending my engagement..?, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

Thanks for the advice guys,

To a certain extent I guess I am being a bit selfish regarding the phone call. She did actually say when I called that she had been waiting for my call and was wondering why I hadn't phoned in a week. Mind you, she does have a phone at home (plus a mobile which I bought her) so its easy for her to contact me if she wants.

Also, as we've had quite a few arguments over some of the things that she has said (for good reason as far as I'm concerned) I guess she is feeling a bit reluctant to say anything incase I don't like it and jump down her throat.
Many of the times when she comes across as cold or insensitive might be because of the language problem. She speaks good english but not perfect so sometimes she makes mistakes. Perhaps I need to be more understanding.

We do talk a lot about our problems and very often our opinions differ. We do argue. Even though I'm worried about how things will turn out if she comes over here, I know for a fact that she is even MORE worried. Because if things don't work out and she has to go back she will lose face with her friends and family. She has already had one divorce and i guess she doesn't want to make another mistake.

The more I think about it the more I realise that it is up to me to be supportive and do the work that is necessary to get her over here. I'm sitting here in luxury with everything I need, a secure future blah blah blah , and meanwhile she's in Kiev with no work and probably worrying about where the next meal is coming from. The last thing she wants is me giving her a hard time on the phone.

I think I will call her tomorrow and tell her I love her.

[thesearch]

... in response to Re: thanks, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

I posted before I read this post of yours. If she was expecting a call from you and did not get one and was hurt, she is going to react to let you know  such as cutting the call short. It is not the most mature way of handling the situation but hey women can be weird and that probably will never change.

I am still going to tell you go with your feelings. Or at least tell her about your reservations and why you have them. Once she hears this then she can respond. But, until she hears them she can not respond. Relationships that are more prone to lasting have quality communication. No better time to start talking then now. So many times we do not get direct and discuss what is bothering us with the other person - we are always trying to second guess and play subtleties to try an indirectly let the person know what we are feeling.

Bring it up with her. Now, the other problem is the communication issues from different cultures and different languages. Misunderstandings can happen very easily and the hole gets dug deeper when we try to engage in discussing a sensitive issue - and to rationalize not discussing it because of such is not wise IMHO - because someday you will have to discuss sensitive issues.

Talk to her - her response will be more valuable than anything any of us will tell you.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: thanks, posted by SteveD on Jan 24, 2002

n/t