... in response to Final post to you........, posted by Mark H on Jan 13, 2002My final post on the matter I promise you Patrick, I just think it is only fair I be able to address Marks typical BS response.
Mark, I have received several e-mails from guys on the P-L who have asked me to just ignore you. Most people know you for what you are, just a big blow hard who has never been wrong in his life and will always do things his way, right or wrong. I replied back to many of these guys, thanking for there support and telling them I had no intentions of dragging this little conflict out. However when you start to say that what I have written in my three replies to you is a lie, or lies, then I respectfully asked you to tell me what I have written to you in any of these responses was a lie. In your response below under the subject title Final post to you you rant and rave, as usual and I dont see where you have proved I have told you any lies! Please Mark, you have my permission, not that you need it, but please feel free to share and publish all the e-mails between us over the last two months regarding your trip. I have nothing to hide and in fact took great pride in the actions and things we did on your be-half to insure you a good trip. Please share all these e-mails, I have no problem with it and although it wouldnt be necessary to do from the feedback I am getting, I think it would further prove that you just plain fukced up, although God forbid from your mentality, not YOU!
Mark
Jack,
You asked the questions and I'll provide the answers. I have reread the emails and they are plain as day. Let's see if you remember some of them.
Lie: We had you all set up in Dnepropetrovsk with many girls who wanted to meet you. You abandoned these girls and left Galina high and dry. Sorry Jack but I have 4 separate emails that anyone can view if they wish where I specifically asked you about girls in Dnepropetrovsk.
.
Jack
Mark, I assume with the e-mails you have saved, you also have the e-mail from me which states,
.. Galina cannot believe the number of ladies who are interested in meeting with you. She has shown your profile and photo to several ladies she thinks you will have interest in. Also Mark Galina thinks if we were to run a personal ad of you for one week in Dnepropetrovsk she thinks you will have a great response rate. Galina feels this way Mark just from percentage of ladies who have interest to meet you from those she tells about you, so with the number of ladies who would see you in the local newspaper, she feels you would have a great response rate.
Now Mark, lets cut thru the bull sh!t, did you get such an e-mail from me, yes or no?
Mark
I asked about agencies, Galina's website, etc... You said it was coming in mid december. Never happened.
Jack
Mark, in all those e-mails you have again please feel free to post the information that I told you about the agencies in Dnepropetrovsk. In case you accidentally omitted this message let me remind you of what was said. I told you there were about four agencies in Dnepropetrovsk and two of these agencies we would not use or recommend because we felt they were scam agencies. There were two agencies that we will escort clients two in Dnepropetrovsk but as Galina is a formidable competitor in Dnepropetrovsk due to the many clients we take care of here, these agencies would not want Galina going into there office. Again Mark, please feel free to release this e-mail.
Regarding the website Galina is building you are absolutely correct in that I told you that at the earliest we thought the website she was building would be up by mid-December. I think I also wrote you in this same message that the website may not be completed before your trip, but I am not sure of that, but I think I did. Will you double check your e-mails regarding the discussion about our Dnepropetrovsk website? Because of the un-certainty about the website being built that you could see all our ladies from Dnepropetrovsk, Galina proceeded to contact the ladies individually and tell them about you, and I will ask you to refer back to the earlier e-mail I sent you in which I told you Galina was amazed about how many ladies were interested in, and excited to meet you. And I encourage you to post that e-mail, but if you do, then maybe you dont look so good now, do you Mark?
Mark
As far as I knew when I got on the plane from barcelona...I wasn't sure what was going to happen.
Lie: "you bashed me and my company in your first email". That's a lie. I prefaced the entire email with the fact that firstdream.com did everything they promised.
..
Jack
Hummm, Mark, well myself, and a few others, feel these comments were certainly aimed at bashing FirstDream. These comments were from your first report, and you dont think they are tilted a little towards the bashing side?
The apartment was nice but quite far from Kreshatik (spelling?)
Total scammer and YES she was off of jack's beloved site. Lesson here is that scammers are everywhere, including firstdream.com Beware of Milena, the 23 year old on firstdream.com.
I think the agency contacts are very weak
The first lady Tamara was good but her pickens were too slim for a city the size of Kiev
I didn't need to travel two days by train to sit on another couch and meet girls who aren't serious.
My advice: seek a LARGE reputable agency in a city and go with them.
it's imperative to have a database that is large to accomodate your interests.
If you are going to meet girls, I recommend a big company in one city with alot of girls in their database.
I think "help" has been pimped into "business" for certain individuals.
I think it's time to end the lie that some people are just here to "help" newbies when in reality they are drumming up business for themselves.
No Mark, certainly no bashing of FirstDream here, none whats so ever. And of course with your next 15 replies you continued to bash even more and worse!
Mark
That's when you came back with your response that I had left half the population of Dnepropetrovsk high and dry. That's what upset me.
Jack
I never said you left half the population of Dnepropetrovsk high and dry, those were your words. I did say that I felt very embarrassed for Galina having to call the many ladies who were hoping to meet you and telling them you would not be coming. Dont try to put words in my mouth and dont try to mis-lead when you fukced up and it is quite apparent for ALL to see.
..
Mark
I didn't have a freaking clue about Dnepropetrovsk
Jack
Mark, please my boy, read the e-mail in which I told you Galina could not believe the response rate she was getting from ladies who wanted to meet you. You keep eluding this e-mail, I think you want to forget about this e-mail, dont you? How could you not have a freaking clue about Dnepropetrovsk when you receive an e-mail telling you that the response rate for ladies wanting to meet you is great!
Mark
It's easy Jack to come here and NOW, in hindsight, state what a wonderful setup you had for me in Dnep. Where was on December 23rd? Dec 24th? Dec 25th? Where was it? It wasn't there, if it was you sure didn't inform me about it.
.
Jack
Mark, check the date of the e-mail when I tell you the response rate you are getting is great. Would you care to tell all what is the date of that e-mail?
.
Mark
Once in Kiev, I made a decision based on the information I had to not go to Dnep...to stay in Kiev.
..
Jack
Ok, lets get this straight. We greet you at 12:30am on the morning of the 27th, we take you right to your flat and you get to bed as you have a busy schedule that we have mapped out for you during your one day in Kiev as you must make the 10:30 train the night of the 27th to Dnepropetrovsk. You wake up you have a few dates, you meet ladies from the agencies. You like some of these ladies a lot, as your e-mail to me said, Jack, am having a wonderful time, Thanks for everything, met three wonderful ladies, will not be going to Dnepropetrovsk. Will have Ilya call Galina and tell her I am not coming.
Once in Kiev I made a decision based on the information I had to not go to Dnep.
Hummmph Mark, now lets see here. You had received my e-mail telling you about how many ladies were excited to meet you in Dneprop. And now you get to Kiev and you meet three wonderful ladies, as you say to me in your e-mail and you are staying in Kiev. I wonder if one of these ladies convinced you that you would have more fun with her if you stayed?
Yep, Mark recommends a bigger agency with more ladies to choose from but yet Mark does very well with a little agency and the ladies the little agency were able to provide him with. You know Mark, as a couple of other posters have eluded to, what you say out of one side of your mouth doesnt make sense with what is coming out the other side?
Mark
I was VERY unsure of what was waiting for me and I didn't wish to waste anymore of my time. I ALWAYS have fun in Kiev.
Jack
Lets see now, you had been to Kiev one previous time, correct, and spent all your time with one lady you met thanks to Jack running a free ad for you, is that right? Darn, you know Mark I re-call you saying you had a bummer time with this lady and you wished you had other ladies to meet and you wanted to come to our party that was going on in Kiev and when I e-mailed you back with my cell phone number in Kiev so you could contact me you said this lady would not let you call me because it would be an toll charge and then you told me the real reason she told you this was because she didnt want you coming to the party.
Mark
So I decided to stay. It's that simple. Then you send a scorching email that upset everyone around, my interpreter, etc... Poor kid couldn't sleep worried about it. I thought that was crappy of you also. If you have a beef with me, contain it with me, don't go threatening your staff over there and upsetting these people. Tell the board about your threats Jack, go ahead? I have the email if anyone wants to read it. I think your behavior was very unprofessional.
.
Jack
Mark, let me make this perfectly clear, you can publish any and all e-mails between us regarding this matter. I am not ashamed of anything I wrote you. You keep saying you have the e-mail, you have the e-mail. I hope you do, you say this as though you are threatening me and please Mark, I have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact if you have all the e-mails you say you do many people would wonder why you didnt go to Dneprop?
Regarding the scorching e-mail that upset everyone, well, everyone is your term. Lets discuss this e-mail. You send me an e-mail the night you are to leave for Dneprop. And you say, Hello Jack, am having a wonderful time, things are going great. Met three wonderful women. I will not being going to Dnepropetrovsk, will have Ilya call Galina and tell her I am not coming.
To which I replied to you,
(not quoting but paraphrasing) Mark, I am glad you are having a good time in Kiev however I am upset that all the work and effort we went to for you in Dnepropetrovsk was in vain. I feel very bad for Galina in that she will now need to notify the ladies hoping to meet you that you are not coming. Mark, for the remainder of your stay in Kiev I assure you that Ilya and Rostick will give you 100% of there effort and will be very professional. After we see you off at the airport FirstDream will no longer offer you any of its services, support or personal. If any FirstDream personal wants to work with you in the future they will do so not as an employee of FirstDream. I hate that it must come to this Mark but in my opinion if you can do this once you could do it again and I do not want to subject my employees or these fine women to such a situation again.
Now Mark, that was pretty much the contents of the scolding e-mail you are referring to. If you have it, sure, feel free to print it!
I did receive an e-mail from Ilya the next day and in his e-mail he wanted to assure me that he had nothing to do with you wanting to stay in Kiev and both he and Rostick were surprised by your actions.
Mark
You didn't ask me why I stayed in Kiev, you didn't do anything but send a threatening and scorching email.
Jack
Mark, I didnt need to ask you why you were staying in Kiev, you told me why. Remember, Jack, am having wonderful time in Kiev, thanks. Met three wonderful women, wont be going to Dneprop.
That said it all to me Mark, what was there to ask?
..
Mark
I made sure I didn't attack you or your company. I stated my opinion which is what this board is based on. You got pissed and started trying to make me look like a monster leaving Galina on a frozen train platform, standing up single mothers for dates, and whatever tripe you spewed. None of it true and YOU KNOW IT.
..
Jack
Well Mark, I think I pretty much showed how you bad mouth FirstDream in your first post, and of course your later posts only got worse, so much for you not attacking, huh!
Yes, I got pissed because of the tremendous effort we went thru to find many nice ladies for you and I got pissed over all of Galinas time and effort for which she got paid,
how much Mark? How much did we pay her for all the work she did for you?
..Well let me tell you Mark. Remember the deposits you said you sent and you didnt ask for the money back? Mark, you sent $44 for one nights deposit to hold this flat for you. You also send $25 and a copy of your passport so that Galina would go to the train station for you and to buy you a return ticket back to Kiev, which of course she did. Lets see now Mark, how much money is left from that $75, ..$6, is that right $6. Wow, and you had the decency to not ask for the money back. I can promise you the flat owners were not giving you back the deposit money, the deposit was so they would hold the flat for you, which they did. I can promise you we were not going to get a refund on the train ticket unless you went to the train station yourself and asked for the refund. The ticket was issued to you, in your name, and no one else could ask for or receive a refund but you. I assure you Galina was not able to get your refund! Galina had expected to be able to make $5 a night for each night you stayed in the flat plus if you needed a driver, an interpreter, a guide, any other assistance, you would have paid Galina for these services. Since you did not show up all her work and effort for you netted her $6.
This made me sick, and you wonder why Jack blew a gasket. No problem though Mark, I sent Galina an extra $100 for the month of December. It was not her fault, she more than did her part.
I never said anything about Galina being left on a frozen platform, more of your spin of words Mark. I was able to call Galena after getting the message you were not showing up, I was able to reach her at her flat, she did not have to go to the train station. I had the delightful chore of having to tell her you were not coming, although she also heard from Ilya, but she had the difficult job of having to tell the ladies and although most the ladies we found for you did not have children, I understand a few had a child, so you are right in that a few single mothers were essentially stood up by you.
Mark
Recommendation: In the future, inform your clients AHEAD of time if you have something set up, especially if they have asked REPEATEDLY.
Jack
I agree Mark. Such as telling your clients by e-mail that they have received interest in many ladies who want to meet them.
Mark
Don't worry Jack, you'll come out of this smelling like a rose due to the fact that many guys are insecure about traveling abroad and need your handholding, and I personally don't care what anyone thinks of me.
.
Jack
Ill come out of this smelling like a rose because I deliver. Its not that guys are insecure Mark, its because they want to go about this process in the most efficient, productive manner.
.
Mark
I NEVER needed you
..
Jack
Well he1ls bells Mark, why on earth did you call on me to help you with this quick trip you wanted to make in the dead of winter? Why did you ask for my help with your trip to St. Petersburg. I didnt say, Please Mark, can I help you with your trips. Mark, check those e-mails again. See who wrote who asking for help?
The long and short of this whole situation would be everything would be fine with you Mark if your actions did not violate some of my principles. These women are to be, and need to be treated with respect. I am all for you finding a lady that you liked in Kiev. The lady in Kiev was not going anywhere, she would have been there for you to see when you returned back to Kiev, remember we had allowed for just this thing. Where you and I differ Mark is that if the same situation was to occur again you would have no problem doing the same thing again. I just prefer not to have this type of client so when Jack told you no more FirstDream help you get angry at Jack, upset that your buddy would turn on you. I didnt turn on you, I was still hoping to be civil with you, to met with you some day, I just wanted you to know that we would not being doing any business with each other in the future. And if Jack had not of done what he did, I bet ole Mark would have had the greatest of trip report when he returned. Mark I know I cannot please every client, but I will be happy with the 90% plus I can make happy.
Mark
As I've said before, this ain't my livelihood. but I'll be darned if I will sit around and watch you spin BS into making me sound like a heavy for not going on a trip I didn't want to take.
Jack
The facts, the events, speak for themselves.
As you wrote me in your e-mail after I told you Firstdream was no longer an option in your continued pursuit for a Russian Dream bride, your words, or actually your quoted words,..... As for breaking her plans, that is life. Im sorry you dont agree but it is my life and my plans. I do what I want
..always....... So Mark, I simply realized that you were not the type of client that I wanted to work with any longer. I have more than enough good clients who will follow thru with there commitments, if they have made any. Usually a couple of times each month a situation like yours arises where a guy will fall for a lady in the first of two cities that he is going to and many of these guys realize that there are ladies waiting for them in another city and they follow thru with there commitments. I would venture to say that at least 50% and maybe 55% of these guys who fall for the one lady in the first city, enjoy someone even more in the second city. And as I have the right to accept or not accept a client, you also have the right to do business with any agency you please.
I said nothing of your trip to anyone. I was content in proceeding on down the path of life never mentioning what you did although I despised your actions. Only when you came on the board and try to paint a different story did I think I should explain why I think Mark is not speaking so highly of FD. I think it is just a shame that after all the time and effort, after all the planning that you and I did, that you did not have the character to follow thru. Remember Mark, it was you who said, I do not want to spend any time in Kiev. I want to go to Dnepropetrovsk to meet ladies. And read that e-mail I sent you Mark in which I told you Galina could not believe the number of ladies who were excited to meet you. You know Mark, you never say anything about that one e-mail, why is it?
.
Mark
Think about it, what fool would not go on a trip as you describe? Problem is, you describe it AFTER the fact.
Jack
Mark, did you go on the trip as I described? Did you go to Dnepropetrovsk where you told me to concentrate all my efforts and set up as many ladies as possible for you to meet.
Look at the date of the e-mail in which I told you of the many ladies wanting to meet you in Dnepropetrovsk Mark. What is that date? WOW it was BEFORE your trip, not after!
..
Mark
Readers will think what they want.
..
Jack
Yes, and many have written me. Im sure you have many replies of support also, depending on how many times Ryan wrote you!
..
Mark
YOU AND I KNOW the truth. This all started in October with the TOUR. You did the same thing to me, perhaps not to everyone else and maybe it is true that you have a different operating style with me...I don't know. But, the same thing happened with the tour. I wrote email after email asking about flats, costs, etc.... You never had anything concrete and could tell me nothing. You told me how you would make it so cheap on me and cut me so much slack because "gosh darnit, you're a nice guy and people like you".
..
Jack
Yes Mark, I didnt want to write this and wished you hadnt forced me to, but yes, I did cut you a deal. I charged you $500 for something other guys were paying $1295 for. I found you a two bedroom flat in the center that cost us $60 and you were going to be able to share with another guy and stay for $30 a night.
.
Mark
Then I get on the plane from Kiev to Pittsburgh and one of your tour boys was sitting across the isle from me. He didn't have nice things to say about Firstdream and your organizational skills either.
..
Jack
Yes Mark, and I told you about this man, David. He was 45 and met a 18 year old lady at the Odessa party. The woman was invited for another much younger man, but David took a liking to this 18 year old honey and we never saw him again until two days before his plane left Kiev. He never made it to the Kiev parties and he is the prime reason why I put the new rule into effect for all future Group Tours. If you commit to going to two cities and invite ladies to the parties in both cities, then I expect you to make at least the parties in both cities. You can fly back to your honey after the parties, or fly her up, but I was never so embarrassed as I was in explaining to eight lovely, beautiful, sincere women as to why this man who had invited them to the parties did not show up. I lost all respect for this man Mark, I guess you wouldnt understand that though. And even though I disagreed with his actions, we still supported him 100% while he was on his trip, as we did you. I refused to meet with him one night that he was in Kiev because he wanted to ask me about fiancιe visas and all and I had word sent to him that I did not care to meet with him. So yes, Mark, I think he probably felt the same way about me as you did. But then, I dont care what @ss-holes think of me. Like you, I could care less!
.
Mark
But I kept it to myself and didn't say a word on the board. I could have.
.
Jack
Mark, feel free to discuss it on the P-L board, as you are doing now, you didnt have to wait three months! I have told you this before, I will tell you this again, I receive less than 10% of all my business from the P-L board. Most men involved with the pursuit for a Russian bride have no idea about the Planet Love board. The customers who you are able to convince that Jack and FirstDream are bad and you should not do business with them will not hurt me Mark. Please, continue to take your best shot to hurt me, its ok.
Mark
I also find out his price was the same low wonderful "you're my friend" price that you gave me. What a scam.
.
Jack
Well, Mark, I can easily prove then that one of you two is a liar. As I think I told you this man, David, eventually wrote me and apologized for his behavior and admitted he was wrong (something youll never do we can count on that). As such I have no problem in trying to help this man as I know he learned a valuable lesson and we all, including myself, make many mistakes in this pursuit. It will be no problem for me to write or call him, and I will if your sure he told you that he only had to pay $500 for his trip and I got him a flat at $30 a night. Is that what you are saying he said Mark?
.
Mark
At least one guy stayed in Odessa and didn't go to Kiev because he met a girl, did you scorch him? Did you tell everyone that he stood up half of kiev? Where's the consistency. I simply didn't go to Dnep, no big deal but you have made a big deal out of it. You created this mess with your stupid email while I was in Ukraine.
..
Jack
Of course Mark, it was the SAME man you are talking about who was on your plane? Did I scorch him, you bet I did. Did I tell everyone he stood up half of Kiev. No, but I did have to tell the eight ladies he stood up and I did add a new rule for the entire world to see, due to his actions.
Consistency!.....I think when it comes to dealing with @ss-holes I am very consistent.
You not going to Dneprop. was not a big deal to you, we know this, and you not going to Dneprop. was a big deal to me, we know this, so are you just repeating yourself now or what?
I dont think I created a stupid mess. I told you I did not want to deal with you as a client anymore and you went ballistic (I still have the e-mail, like you). I accomplished what I wanted in letting you know to seek services from some one else, maybe a LARGE reputable agency with LOTS of ladies, all I did Mark was to tell the other side of the story that you forgot, or refused to do. I still dont think I created a mess, maybe its a mess to you!
Mark
You want to have a problem with me, fine. We have a problem but don't add lies and BS to it trying to gather the cronies on your side.
.
Jack
Mark, I dont see having any future problems with you.
As far as lies, which is what prompted my third post to you when I didnt want to post anymore, please Mark, as my third post politely asked of you, please, what lies. You have yet to prove one lie and that is what my fourth response to you is all about, to prove that I told you a lie, or that you are just full of sh!t!
..
Mark
I don't care what they think, never have. Anyone who has seen my posts over the last 3 years knows I don't sweat insults and flames. Best of luck to you, you're going to need it.
Mark H.
Jack
Thanks Mark, I am sure it wont hurt to have a little luck on my side.
