A little more on infidelity in Russia

[Jimmy]

... in response to Re: Re: A little more on infidelity in R..., posted by KenC on Dec 12, 2001

Ken,

I don't know much about the enconomiclly advantaged people in Ukraine.  I only see the ones that don't have it all.  The freedom that this society now has is only been realized in the last 12 years.  I think that many here are very much in disparity.  Your wife may have been very fortunate in having a higher standard of living.  Many here don't have enough to eat and certainly don't have a car to drive.  This is certainly not the norm.

I know that placing one of these women in the US environment is like taking a fish out of water and making it walk.

Many men here think that waving a visa in the face of these women will make everything alright and it just isn't so.  You have to relinquish the power that you have and give these women the benefit of the doubt and court them in their native soil to learn more about them.  Why tempt them with all these promises of a better life when it may create more difficulties for them.  I would rather have my wife love me for what I am and not what I can do for her.  Marry her in Ukraine and live here.  You will be better off.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine, Kiev Oblast

[thesearch]

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

Tootsie,

As usual, I very interesting post.

With my title, I am not refering to anyone here but these comments when compared to a nation if the posts below are representative of Americans in general for example..

Anyway, it just dawned on me, we American men should be the ones to have the affairs more than the Russian men. I mean you marry an AW, she decides that now she has you she does not need to take care of her body and gets fat and even tries to use that fat body as a tool of manipulation relative to sex. Now tell me, what Russian man would put up with that? Well, there are a lot of American men who do. And, they play on the fact that American men are loyal to their family (children). So, Russian men probably would laugh at many American men.

Having a mistress in Russia might work out very well. I can not comment as I am not a Russian living in Russia but, it will not work out very well here in the USA. There is simply not the acceptance for such in a hypocritical way. Why do I say hypocritical? Americans are hypocrites compared to Russians perhaps because this behavior seems to be accepted to a certain degree in Russia whereas it is not accepted in the USA and yet the infidelity rate is very high here statistics report.  

Stats suggest that our posters here represent what Americans believe in but fail to duplicate in action. What do statistics mean - there is somewhat of a problem but who knows how much is how I take it. So, we have infidelity and who knows maybe even close to what it is in Russia (I would have no idea) but, these affairs are not so on going. Many of them were only one or two encounters. These stats are based upon if one has ever been unfaithful at all.

I do not know why but I assumed the term mistress means on going. I personally have never been unfaithful in marriage which supposedly puts me in the minority by the standards of some studies. However, I feel safe in saying that people here in the USA most likely do not think that infidelity is good for the relationship, even if they are involved in such, they just do it for selfish reasons - perhaps because life gets dull - who knows - but they most likely acknowledge that it is not healthy and deep down wish they did not seem to feel the need for it. Infidelity in the USA more likely is higher than the divorce rate but what does that mean. I do not think that it means that it keeps the marriage together. I think that Russian psychologist must have had a mistress That is what me thinks.)))))

But back to another aspect of your post about most men here who are seeking a woman who is younger are most likely not doing it for anything other than a younger body. Bingo, if any guy tells you different, he is a liar or stupid. Stupid? -- Yes because a younger woman brings on challenges that one your own age inherently does not. So, if it is not for the more attractive body what could it be? You are dead correct. Now the safest woman would be a woman about 80 years or older but, you know I do not think that there will be too many takers who are in their fifties.

If I was happily married for twenty years I would never consider dumping my wife for a young new model. I could not have a mistress or an affair and face a woman that I loved either. I am stuck in fidelity whether I like it or not. It would have to be me and her till the end.

However, with me being single that is a whole different story. With the divorce rate as high as it is telling you point blank that there are no guarantees - why should I marry someone my own age if I can attract younger?
I, like CFonde, have to have a mental connection above all. So, this makes it a little harder to find the total package when looking at younger women. So what, the older I get the better the situation gets actually.

I will admit that I used to be interested in 15 year old girls. But, one must understand that I was 15 to 16 years old when that was the case. Now, to me 37 is like 15 years old. The older you get the more mature and wise your version of the 15 year old gets. Besides, if I marry a 37 year old, I will never have to deal with my wife being too old for me. So, as long as I choose wisely among the younger crowd to avoid the issues a younger bride can bring, it will never be an issue.  

And, I will suggest that some posters really do not know how they will feel about all of this until they are older. I am not saying that they would cheat on their wives just because she has gotten old or does not want sex but, they do not know how they would choose under the circumstances of being single being older until they add a few years to their life span. Now, CFonde is pretty open about it saying ask me when I am 62. MarkInTx says his x-wife at 40 still is very sexy. Dang, I hope so- she is only 40. When she is 57 and you compare her to a 40 year old you might not be singing the same tune about your x compared to the younger women - and DR at age 27 well need I say more.

However, at all ages here who have posted, we all agree that infidelity is not what we want to be a part of our future. We want one woman to cherish, to love and be faithful to and vice versa. I think is safe to say that this is what most American men want and it is reasonable to say that more American men are hypocrites than their Russian men counterpart is. So, the Russian men win on one count but we actually think that it is losing by default on the issue. Evidently we as a group statistically fail when we try whereas wirh Russian men many fail to even try to maintain fidelity.

[Rostick]

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

Dear Sir,

The story sounds just about right. The only thing is that it has no meaning, gives no perspectives. The reason why I say this, is because you apply too much rationalism to love issues. I always thought that love is a feeling that brings you happiness, a desire to live and give love, a desire to be only with one particular person, who you love more than life. I also thought that marriage as such is a mutual act of two people who are in love, when a Father gives a blessing to a couple, this marriage is concluded in heavens. I always thought that this is the only right way it is supposed to be, if you want to be happy in your marriage. What you say, states totally the opposite. You laugh at women in their 40's, by saying that you are not looking for these "BABUSHKAS", believe me it's one of the worst jokes I've heard since I got into this affairs. All I can say is that, if you don't believe in love, if you don't want to give, if you only want to take, if you are not honest with yourself, you`ll never ever be happy. You can have fun, but at the end, you`ll realize that it was just a waste of time, playing games.
A woman who is in love, gives you everything, all the feelings she has inside, isn't it a good reason to be willing to make her happy, give her what you have inside, if you have anything to share, of course.
You tend to show the depth of your thinking, your psychological skills, but will this thinking bring you love, I guess not, because you can not predict love, you can not create it. It's a gift from God.
Try to imagine yourself talking to God, telling him:
"Oh, God, here is my order for some fresh impressions, I want to fall in love, she has to be in her early 20's, she has to be a blond with blue eyes, she has to have a cute and innocent face, and a tight body, and I want her to fall in love with me, how soon can I get it, I want it now."
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it, but I just basically described your idea in simple terms.
You say that RM usually have a mistress, that it's easy for us not to get attached to a woman, generally speaking - RM have no respect for women. I wonder how many men have you met in Russia or Ukraine??? How do you know how RM treat women? What makes me wonder is how can you say anything about Russian or Ukrainian people, their behavior, their manners, character, if you are not really familiar with them. This is all based on books, and rumors I guess.

Believe me, the main idea of the post is not to insult you, even though you may think that way at some point, but to show you, that you deal with living people, who have feelings and soul, just as you do. Yes, life here is challenging, but it is everywhere else in the world. Sometimes, it gets a little harder over here, and people forget about who they are, and what they're after. Sooner or later many of them will "wake up", and understand that happiness can not be bought, it's work, it's hard work, and the major part of this work has to be done within a person. Know thyself, try to understand your feelings, and open yourself to love, treat people the way you want to be treated, and the world will reflect to it.

I really hope that you`ll get the idea and don't get upset. I want to apologize in advance, just in case if you find some of the parts of this message offensive towards yourself. I really didn't mean it.

With best wishes,
Rostick.

[Tootsie]

... in response to Re: A little more on infidelity in Russi..., posted by Rostick on Dec 11, 2001

I don't remember when I laughed so long last.

And I especially thank you for defending "babushkas" from a "babushka". It's nice to know that somebody can defend us so nice...

Thanks once again.

Tootsie

[Rostick]

... in response to Thank you so much for your post, posted by Tootsie on Dec 12, 2001

Dear Tootsie,

I`m terribly sorry if my post seemed rude to you.
I have to admit that emotions take over me when I hear about something that I consider to be wrong, in terms of relations, or anything else.
I said what I thought.

By the way I also like to make people laugh, because positive emotions make their life longer, and I really hope that it's a happy life.

With best wishes,
Rostick.

[Zink]

... in response to Thank you so much for your post, posted by Tootsie on Dec 12, 2001

I've met a few "babushkas" when in Russia. I never really considered you as one of them. You just gave me a good laugh about that. Yes, you are a little more "experienced". But hardly a babushka.

Because you helped me I talked about you with my lady from Volgograd. She was with me several times when I sent you e-mails from there. She was actually jealous of you. Infidelity does seem to be a common fear among the ladies I know over there. My girlfriend thought that maybe you were "the other woman". She had a hard time believing that I only went to Russia to meet her. The only reason that she started to believe me was because you are older than I am. RM don't usually choose older women as mistresses.

Regards,
Zink

[LP]

... in response to Re: A little more on infidelity in Russi..., posted by Rostick on Dec 11, 2001

...How the heck are ya? lol..I assure you that Tootsie
"knows" all about how R/M treat women.

Anyway, your post reflects the kind, gentle soul I remember so well through that vodka induced haze. Hope all is going OK for you.

Don't kill me, but I still speak with Vika sometimes.
lol.. who knows, you may see me again for another try at it.

Hey, how's my Lufthansa girl? I'm still waiting for her :-)

Take care.....

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: A little more on infidelity in Russi..., posted by Rostick on Dec 11, 2001

Calm down Rostick. This is not Tootsie's point of view.She was referring to a talk show on Russian TV.Anyway thank you for another good post.

[CFonde]

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

As a 42 y.o. male, I don't find much too appealing about substantially younger women. My personal criteria is no less than 32 years old (10 years my junior), but even that's pushing it a little. Presently, I've been dating a 46 year old AW, and in my opinion, there's nothing better than a slightly more mature woman. The RW I've presently been communicating with, and have visited this past August is 40.

  What's more important for me, I'm finding as I get older, is that the relationship has to work in my mind first & foremost, and not just from a physical standpoint. It seems to me that no matter how beautiful or attractive I find a woman, if I'm not attracted to her mind first, my attraction for her will not be held.

  I've turned down & continue to rebuff opportunities from women in their mid to late 20's. This just isn't what I'm personally looking for. Of course, on the other hand, at 42, I consider myself to be at the prime of my life, and wouldn't mind freezing myself forever at this age. If & when I'm 62, who knows what my viewpoint(s) will be. Stick around for the next 20 years, and I'll get back to you on that one!

 

[Del]

... in response to A little more on infidelity in Russia, posted by Tootsie on Dec 11, 2001

with your position. Moreover, more often than not, the non-straying spouse knows of the affair and chooses for one reason or another not to 'make a scene'.
This leads to a diminishing of trust with the 'straying' partner, a lowering of the self-esteem of the 'betrayed' partner, and a gradual disintigration of a relationship.
The "acceptance" is most often not 'condonance' but actually a wilful choice made from economic circumstances.
Infidelity (especially repeated infidelity) can do nothing but harm any relationship - look to the "swingers" who have experienced relationship "crashes" after the novelty has worn off.
If, on the other hand, the relationship was 'built upon' rather than 'enhanced by' the physical aspects of the relationship, you may be correct.

[juio99]

... in response to I Disagree...., posted by Del on Dec 11, 2001

1

[Del]

... in response to Del, this is NOT Tootsie's position. Re ..., posted by juio99 on Dec 11, 2001

"But still maybe there is something true about it".

[thesearch]

... in response to Look to......, posted by Del on Dec 11, 2001

Tootsie is not for her man having a mistress. Her follow up post under RW's post makes that clear.

I have a total different call on this. Tootsie simply worded herself in such a manner so as to find out what us American and otherwise men really think about this.

Things were worded specifically this way. Why did she do this? Why does she want to know how guys stand on this issue?

[LP]

... in response to You all fell for it me thinks, posted by thesearch on Dec 11, 2001

...because she *may* marry an American man in the not so distant future.

lol...It's in her best interests to know thy enemy.

[micha1]

... in response to You all fell for it me thinks, posted by thesearch on Dec 11, 2001

Because she knows that, if every cockhold, in the world, had a bell around his neck, we could not hear ourselves
talk anywhere.
It is a fact of life, perhaps some of us should read or re-read Camus  "The women, who cheated on her husband."
In her case it was with the sun.