Iranian women

[Pargev]

If I am not Moslem, is it possible to marry a girl in Iran?  How does it work?

[Andy(Original)]

... in response to Iranian women, posted by Pargev on Feb 3, 2001

Pargev,

-No! You will have to convert to Islam...OR marry a christian orthodox woman.

-You will have to be circumcized.

-Expect to pay a dowry (Amount set by the girls father, I was once asked to pay 7 camels, and on a different occasion $5000) And that simply means that You are engaged.

To reply to the other posts in this thread...

-Iran is a muslim country with a legal system based on(And very close to) Sharia...Mixing Islam with christianity or judaism is forbidden...Although the Quaran refers to both judaism and christianity as faiths of the book, the iranian priesthood(Like the majority of muslims) consider christianity to be basically paganism.

-Sex outside of marriage is punished by 100 whiplashes, and that is if the authorities catch You...If the locals get to You, You may end up on the wrong side of a lynch mob.

-Although the punishment for premarital sex is 100 lashes, You may be the lucky one receiving that...If the girls family decides that the family's honor has been soiled, You should expect the girl to be killed.

-There is no such thing as being a muslim in name only...You are not marrying a woman, but an entire family...They will make sure that You go to the mosque regularly(To pray and sit through "Partymeetings of antiwestern propaganda"), and You can be very sure that she will side with her family in case You are not ready to do this.

-You need to understand that Islam is not only a religion, it is a way of life...There are directions for everything You encounter in Your life. You are either in or out!

regards,

[Pargev]

... in response to Re: Iranian women, posted by Andy(Original) on Feb 3, 2001

I heard some say that all I have to do is pay a $50 fee to get registered as "Moslem."  And, yes I do know the salah (Muslim prayers).  I am circumcised although I am Christian.  About family dowry, I think that is up to them.  The only thing is their government.  Would they allow it?  Will I get killed by fanatics once I get there?  I don't know?  If I love that girl and see her, I probably will convert to her faith.

[cc]

... in response to Re: Re: Iranian women, posted by Pargev on Feb 3, 2001

Don't worry, you are not going to be lynched or killed by fanatics unless you behave improperly, i.e. engage in sex, act against the girl's family wishes and so on. You must make sure that you have the family on your side!!! Do not procede against their wishes. Convince them that you are serious about their daughter as well as islam!!! Again, I know several guys who married muslim women (Indonesian) and there never was a problem once they got the support of the family.

And yes, the Government will allow it. Recently, Iranian Government has become more "liberal", but naturally it is a very slow process. I talked to an Iranian couple who sat next to me on a recent plane ride, and they told me that the young generation is changing like everywhere else in the World. There are discos in Teheran and there are internet cafes! Good luck!

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Iranian women, posted by cc on Feb 3, 2001

N/T

[cc]

... in response to Indonesia is not Iran!  Good Luck! (n/t), posted by Dave H on Feb 3, 2001

Dave, you are certainly correct - I would proceede with significantly more caution with an Iranian woman, than I would with an Indonesian. I hope pargev will post his travel report after he returns!

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Indonesia is not Iran!  Good Luck! (..., posted by cc on Feb 3, 2001

cc,

Somebody has to be the first to break the ice. I certainly wish Pargev good luck and a successful journey. It has the makings of a very interesting and different trip report, the likes of which we have never seen here before.

Dave H.

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Re: Iranian women, posted by Pargev on Feb 3, 2001

Hi Pargev,

Do you already know this woman? If not, why search for her in a country where you may be hated, considered a pagan, whipped, or stoned to death? Relationships are hard enough without having to worry about your safety or that of the person you love.

Read about American Jeffrey Schilling (a Muslim convert) who is being held hostage by a Muslim group in the Philippines. His wife is a Muslim. I guess he thought he was part of the family. He will likely die soon, if not rescued. Like all major religions not everyone has the same exact set of beliefs. However, Jews and Christians don't usually kill you over it. I find it doubtful that you will ever be truly accepted.

Dave "just another pagan" H.

[markP]

... in response to Land of 1,000,000 Lashes, posted by Dave H on Feb 3, 2001

>However, Jews and Christians don't usually kill you over
> it. I find it doubtful that you will ever be truly
> accepted.

I seem to remember somthing between the Catholics and the Protestants in N Ireland...

MarkP

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Land of 1,000,000 Lashes, posted by markP on Feb 4, 2001

N/T

[cc]

... in response to Land of 1,000,000 Lashes, posted by Dave H on Feb 3, 2001

Well, nobody knows what motivated Jeff Schilling - he wasn't exactly kidnapped by the terrorists, he went there on his own accord and tried to argue islamic fundamentals with them, at least that's the story I have heard. Sure the MILF are muslims, but foremost they are a bunch of terrorists. You really should not generalize from that!

"Like all major religions not everyone has the same exact set of beliefs. However, Jews and Christians don't usually kill you over it."
Perhaps not recently, but consider the crusades, consider the witch hunts, consider the conquest of the Americas by the Spaniards and you can't really say that one religion is worse than any other in this respect. Do you agree with the occupatian of Palestine by the Jewish People???
The problem is not religion, the problem is fanatics!!! (and they can be found in every group)

[Dave H]

... in response to Jeff Schilling, posted by cc on Feb 3, 2001

Hi cc,

When posting I did consider the past (The Crusades, the Spaniards, etc.) but I am more concerned with the present world situation.  The present global threat, like it or not is Islamic fundamentalism. Ask the people that have suffered worldwide from their terrorists acts. Sure, you still can site examples of terrorist acts by religious fanatics of various religions, but on a much smaller scale.

You seem very sure that no harm will come to Pargev if he travels to Iran and courts a woman. You must be presently living there, or have recently visited. Perhaps you are  Iranian. Are you willing to go with him and keep him out of harms way? Will you explain their culture and customs. It doesn't seem worth the risk.

"Just in case: Never ever engage in premarital sex with a Muslim woman in Iraq!!! (did you mean Iran also)? If caught, they will throw you in prison or worse!!!"

cc

What if he meets the woman and doesn't like her? She could be hurt and her family shamed. They might accuse him of making sexual advances or rape. I know that it could happen anywhere. But we have no diplomatic relations with Iran or Iraq. As a foreign pagan, will he get a fair trial before he is whipped, stoned, imprisoned, or "worse?"

Dave H.

"Well, don't be scared, the news always exaggerate."

cc

Going to Iran sounds like foolish to me! Ignore the news, but should he really just ignore the State Department travel warnings? Jeffrey Schilling did, as do hundreds of people that are attacked or held as hostages every year.

Dave H.

[cc]

... in response to Hi Jeff ! Still a Muslim?, posted by Dave H on Feb 3, 2001

Your points are well taken, but I still believe those risks are exaggerated. No, I am not Iranian and I haven't been there, but we have several Iranian students at our college, so I have some Idea of what's going on there.

"The present global threat, like it or not is Islamic fundamentalism. Ask the people that have suffered worldwide from their terrorists acts."
This just shows how exaggerated the news reporting are! By far more people die from automobile accidents than through islamic terrorist acts. In that sense automobiles pose the major "global threats", not a small group of terrorists.

"What if he meets the woman and doesn't like her? She could be hurt and her family shamed. They might accuse him of making sexual advances or rape."
I think I expressed clearly that it would be foolish to proceede unless he has the family on his side. A muslim family would NOT be shamed, if their daughter agrees NOT to marry a foreigner. You are simply speculating, what if, what if....

"Jeffrey Schilling did, as do hundreds of people that are attacked or held as hostages every year."
Jeff Schilling was foolish: he went voluntary to visit the terrorists!!! Who knows what his motives were!!! Going as a tourist to Iran is not the same thing as trying to meet Mr. Bin Laden in Afghanistan!!! How many people do you know that were recently kidnapped in Iran???

"Going to Iran sounds like foolish to me!"
Nobody forces you ;-) Everyone has to live within their own means of risk taking. There are plenty of Europeans who would never visit Miami, Florida because they are afraid to fall victim to gun violence...

[Dave H]

... in response to exaggeration, posted by cc on Feb 3, 2001

cc,

You are certainly correct that you cannot believe everything you hear in the media. They are in the business to draw in viewers and often sensationalize stories. I like to watch the Spanish news and then listen to the same story in English. The Spanish news tends to be more flavorful. It is amazing! I don't know how many times I have heard that Castro was dead on Spanish news.

I read an interesting book several years ago by Mohammad Mohaddessin, titled, "Islamic Fundamentalism, The New Global Threat." Thus my inclusion of "Global Threat" in my post. Mohaddessin was(is?) a ranking member of the People's Mojahedin of Iran. Thus, written from the Mojahedin perspective, which is quite similar to the Western perspective. He speaks of how "Islamic Fundamentalism" would more correctly be called "Khomeiniism." But the previous term has now been accepted widely. He stated that this fundamentalism was "far away from the Islam of Muhammad." Well worth reading, if you can find it. It might be available at a college library.

Dave H.

[cc]

... in response to Good Book!, posted by Dave H on Feb 4, 2001

Thanks - I may check it out. I simply get "worked up" when I hear people identifying islam in general with the handful of "muslim fundamentalists/terrorists". In my opinion this is mostly the media's fault. With the end of the cold war, the West (and that included Western Europe) needed a new enemy and the "muslim threat" seemed all too convenient...

During my travels in Indonesia and Southeast Europe (Turkey) I have met nothing but friendly and hospitable muslims...