How do you all get around the languages

[RusWife]

... in response to Thanks for supporting my arguments, even..., posted by Go2Rus on Nov 1, 2001

Sorry I did not read all the thread. There are good reasons in Dan's post, but I still do not agree. I still think there is more risk in communicating with someone who does not speak English than in coming across the scammer.

All the discussions about village vs big city girls are very subjective too. It depends who you are looking for. From my observation city girls do not wait for years to get driving license, find jobs and try to make friends much faster without relying heavily on husband for everything. Some guys like that, others prefer to be "husband, teacher, English tuitor, driving instructor, nurse, father and everything else in one face".... I am not saying it's bad - it might be a very good "bonding" experience for some and driving each other crazy experience for others....

I am on your side in this reasoning. My husband does not speak Russian either, but that does not mean he does not support or understand me.  As a matter of fact, quite opposite. He also loves maps and can navigate in my home town better than me

[Dan]

... in response to Re: Thanks for supporting my arguments, ..., posted by RusWife on Nov 1, 2001

Please note that I've never refered to "village girls" per se, but rather, to girls from "smaller cities." I have met lots of women from 'smaller cities' such as Kremenchug (Olya's hometown), Ivano-Fankivsk, Mariupol, Uzhgorod and others - and as I recall, these cities had populations in the hundreds of thousands. Not tiny, and certainly not "villages" - which I tend to think of as the many little populations that are really pretty rural in nature. The true 'village' girls' I have met are usually just as you describe them - looking primarily to have a family, often not attending university - or doing so rather late, usually not driving, and certainly not speaking English.

I guess what I am saying is that there is no easy distinction between girls from different locations. True - girls that have grown up in rural areas, maybe on a farm, tend to have a few common characteristics - and girls that grew up in major metropolitan cities too, tend to have a few common characteristics. When I referred in my earlier posts to girls from "smaller cities", I was intending to describe a mix of values and characteristics that seem (to me, anyway) to minimize the scamming influences while preserving the fine cultural and educational upbringing found in many FSU countries.

I am glad things have worked out so well for you and your husband. Quite clearly, it is possible for a non-Russian speaking guy to meet and have a wonderful relationship with someone from the FSU - provided that this person has an appropriate comitment to learning English ASAP (and preferably while still living in the FSU). I see that it happens - I just felt it was not 'right' for me (for a variety of reasons, my business interests among them). I saw it then, and continue to see it now, as a necessary investment in a tangible demonstration that I am willing to meet people half-way insofar as language is concerned.

As a point of interest, once Olya arrived here in the US, we continued to speak only Russian for several months. It was not until we took a trip back East to visit some friends that she began to speak predominantly English. She now claims that my speaking only Russian initially, delayed her in learning English and we have finally settled on a compromise. When we are in any native English-speaking country, we wil both speak English. When in any native Russian-speaking country, we will both speak Russian (at least, as much as possible - I fear my Russian skills are already deteriorating from lack of practice --smile--).

- Dan

[Go2Rus]

... in response to Point of Clarification About "Villa..., posted by Dan on Nov 1, 2001

the ladies I met in SPb felt much the same way as your wife.  When I even hinted about my learning some Russian, they said, No, No, just help me with my English.

[Go2Rus]

... in response to How do you all get around the languages, posted by DaveR on Oct 31, 2001

For the below posts that suggest if the lady hasn't started to learn English, you should move on, I agree totally.

For those who say, that if the guy doesn't try to learn some Russian, he isn't serious, I totally disagree.

Everything is live is a tradeoff based on scarce resources and time is a scarce resource for all persons who are worth their salt.

So decide where you are going to be living.  Most are going to be living here.  As one poster below noted, it is nice to have some Russian to pursue the ladies, but once back here it is nearly worthless.

Go back to the scarce resource idea.  How many of you have the time to spend on something that will essentially be useless at some point.  Sure it makes the ladies and their family feel good that you are trying, but they might feel good about many other things you spent your time on also.

I would like to learn to fly a plane, play the piano, play golf, understand geopolitics, dance, judo, karate, drive a race car, skydive, etc., etc., etc.  But the time is not there.

Will I spend any time on learning Russian when I am trying to find a wife who will be living here and speaking Russian.  No I will not.

[Dan]

... in response to I agree some and disagree some., posted by Go2Rus on Nov 1, 2001

And in your case, choosing NOT to learn Russian means that:

* You have significantly narrowed the pool of eligible ladies. There are a lot of very fine ladies that will disqualify themselves from the process simply because they don't yet speak English. I recall one very beautiful and charming young lady that I met in Ukraine (in a small village called Komsomolsk) and we had loads of physical appeal and interest - but at the time, I spoke no Russian and we could not verbally communicate except through a translator. It led to the ultimate demise of what may have been a wonderful relationship. Similarly with Olya, we have discussed many times how my Russian language skills made her feel much more comfortable about nearly every aspect of our relationship.

* It is quite possible you have deleteriously impacted your ability to fully-understand your future wife. Study of the language takes you into exploring cultural nuances and differences that are fascinating. It also aids in understanding *some of* her way of thinking. These things can be overcome with time - but it is a VERY long road fraught with potential significant misunderstanding along the way.

This is all about odds. Your odds are improved if you have a larger pool to be selecting from. Is it a significant difference - well, probably it is statistically - but pragmatically, it may not be - owing to the large number of women in the FSU that now speak some English.

Just one more thought - some of the guys here have commented that many women from larger cities such as Moscow and Kyiv are more prone to be scammers, hence, perhaps the women of smaller cities are more likely to be sincere. I know some girls from smaller cities that are also scammers, but I also concur that my experience with travel around Ukraine supports the notion that girls from smaller cities are less likely to be scammers and more likely to be much sincere. It is also true that as you venture out of Kyiv and Odesa, the numbers of women that speak English drops precipitiously. So . . . one could easily argue that; a) your odds of finding a sincere woman are better in smaller cities, and b) your odds of finding English-speaking women in smaller cities is diminished - HENCE, the obvious answer is to LEARN RUSSIAN!!

Just my take on things - FWIW.

- Dan

[Go2Rus]

... in response to We All Make Individual Choices . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 1, 2001

You are absolutely right than I have narrowed my pool by going only for English speakers.  However, remember that we narrow the pool everytime we use any sort of criteria.  And you certainly had some sort of criteria!  :-))

So it ends up being a trade-off.  In my case I am making the trade-off of a smaller pool for the time saved in not learning the language.

Also, some comments on scammers, big cities ladies, etc.

As I posted below, I contacted over 400 ladies in SPb and encounted zero scammers.

I met with 13 ladies and found them all to be pretty nice, not a real callous big city stereotype in the entire group.

Why didn't I have problems with scammers?  Probably because all of my ladies were between 40 -49 years of age, a time in which they can no longer rely on their bodies alone for scamming or anything else.  :-))

And since I met mostly very charming ladies in the second biggest city in FSU (I think), man am I looking forward to even more charming ones in smaller places.  Of course then finding those with English will be more of a challenge . . . but life is fun!!

Thanks again for your well written, logical response.

[Dan]

... in response to We All Make Individual Choices . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 1, 2001

As for the time commitment and scarcity of resources - the Pimsleur Comprehensive programs each have 30 lessons. There are 3 levels for a grand total of 90 lessons. Each lesson requires 30 minutes. In my case, it was simple enough to slap on the headphones and jump aboard the treadmill (or whatever) during my morning exercise routine. In 90 days (or thereabouts), spending 30 minutes a day, while busy doing something I would have been doing anyway (exercise), I learned enough of the Russian language to be able to make myself understood and begin to comprehend native Russian-speakers.

I have a hard time understanding the priorities of anyone that would claim they cannot find 30 minutes a day for a few months to learn a skill that will help them in this pursuit invaluably. But then again - that's just my 5 years or so of experience talking. FWIW.

- Dan

[Go2Rus]

... in response to And One MORE Thought (about resource sca..., posted by Dan on Nov 1, 2001

I already do exactly as you do on the treadmill and on a stationary bike.  I have them both set up so that I can read trade magazines in my field.  This is something that I can't seem to fit in anywhere else, so I do it there.  Thus I am already using that 30 minutes you are sure I could find.  :-))

And actually, I am doing this for one hour each day . . . various physical workout that is.

But keep trying Dan with your help re my case.  I am booked up 24/7 but perhaps I have overlooked something.  :-))

[LP]

... in response to You are right again, however, posted by Go2Rus on Nov 1, 2001

....24 hours in a day. This doesn't change for any of us.

I have always held the belief that there is no such thing as not enough time, there are only priorities.

[Go2Rus]

... in response to There are...., posted by LP on Nov 1, 2001

I do have my priorities.  And it is what I do for a living in my consulting, i.e. teaching priorities, long range planning, etc.

If you are referring to my comments above, I certainly have prioritized everything I can think of prioritizing, and learning Russian is nowhere near the top or bottom of my list.  :-))

[Richard]

... in response to I agree with you, and thus am missing th..., posted by Go2Rus on Nov 1, 2001

Is the point of his post that different people have different priorities - some have made it a priority to learn Russian, others haven't?

[Bob S.]

... in response to How do you all get around the languages, posted by DaveR on Oct 31, 2001

Seriously, both of you need to learn each other's language.

You can start with the Pimsleur I series to get the basics of pronunciation.  Then move on to either the Pimsleur II series or some other self-study guide such as the Berlitz language tapes.  Better if you can find a Russian language class at your local college or university.  Better still if you can enroll in the Air Force intensive language course (total emersion!).

But unless you plan on living in the FSU or a Russian community here after you're married, she MUST learn English.  Without some basic language skills, she will be horribly isolated once she gets here.  If she is serious about a foreign husband, she should be learning his language soon after she begins correspondence.  If she hasn't at least started classes or sought a private tutor by the time you're ready to go visit, she isn't really serious and you should move on.  Lack of English skill doesn't mean she's a bad girl, only that she hasn't faced the reality of life with a foreign husband.  She simply isn't ready.

[LP]

... in response to Learn it!, posted by Bob S. on Oct 31, 2001

.....Excellent post, my compliments. IMHO, failure to make an effort on the man's part also implies a lack of seriousness, and *she* should move on.

Learning new things can be tough, it takes effort and commitment, but it shows some respect for her culture and, in cases where she speaks no English, is paramount.

A study of her culture and country's history wouldn't hurt either. I know it takes some thinking, but it can pay  dividends later. I mean come on, you're asking her to do exactly the same when she arrives in your country, except she has no choice. Show your support for her by at least attempting to make the same effort.

Unfortunately, many people would rather die than think, choosing instead to take the easy way out. (Hey, no one said this was gonna be easy.)

Knowledge is power. In addition, learning a new language can be a rewarding and fullfilling experience.

[yoe]

... in response to Truer words indeed......, posted by LP on Oct 31, 2001

nt

[spyke]

... in response to Truer words indeed......, posted by LP on Oct 31, 2001

Åñëè Âû èçó÷àåòå ðóññêîãî, Âû áóäåòå ïîðàæåíû!!! and I wont translate it for U..