"Violent Men"

[pablo]

A friend passed this article on to me that I thought would be an interesting read.  Seems like the sisters over at our beloved Equality Now organization have been doing a little reseach on how willing the "mail order bride" companies will provide services to violent men.    

This woman’s group wrote an email to various agencies disguised as a potential customer. In the email the phony customer tells the agency that he has been divorced twice and both of his wives accused him of assault and that he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct and if this would hurt his chances in finding a wife and will they help him. Almost all of the agencies said they would help. They then post the marriage agencies responses.

It’s amusing what some of these marriage agencies will say to make a sell.

http://www.equalitynow.org/reports/mailorderbride.pdf  

[lapentier]

... in response to "Violent Men", posted by pablo on Jul 2, 2005

Even though I may disagree with with their conclusion that there is a "complete indifference", I do appreciate the fact they published their all of their raw data for people to make their own conclusions.  

The catch is that if the "mainstream media" ever gets ahold of this article, they will publish the conclusion of the researcher, but are not likely to publish the actual data.  There are a number of caveats, mentioned in previous posts, that make the ficitious letter somewhat believable.  As an example, the letter mentions he is a "practicing pediatrician".  In most states, people with child abuse and/or domestic violence convictions would are not allowed to continue working with children.  Daycare providers, licensed teachers, nurses, physicians, etc. are all required background checks.  In order to remain an active pediatrician, the plead charges would have to be quite old, or low-level misdemeanors equivilent to a parking ticket.  

I would love to say the cause is "media bias", but it would more likely be "lazy journalism".  I have a class exercise for English where I have the class look up a press release for a company, and then look up phrases from that press release in various news sources.  You would be amazed at the number of times newspapers and other media outlets copy press releases and repeat them with very little or any modification or clarification.

Let's face it; their fictitious letter is well written.  Notice, they did not use the word "conviction", they said "under pressure" and "pleaded guilty".  It was written by legal experts as an exhibition piece for an audience of legal experts, but it was "to" an audience of agency owners, who are not expected to be experts in legal terminology.  The scenario is a reasonable one for blue-collar workers:  Man loses temper, ex-wife gets mad, accuses man of abuse (it could be verbal), threatens man he won't see kids unless he agrees he did, and he agrees so he can see the kids.  I am guessing agency owners probably encounter falsely accused clients quite frequently, so the e-mail was glossed-over, and they sent the ordinary response--to a situation that was not ordinary.  They read pleaded and pressured in the common sense of "I was pressured into admitting it when I really didn't do it."  They were going to REALLY get me:  long trial, lots of money, no contact with kids, possibly worse charges, etc.

The real audience are legislators.  Many of them come from legal backgrounds.  They read "pleaded" and immediately associate the word "conviction".  In their minds, if you "plead guilty" and the judge accepted it--you did it--case shut.  My major problem with it is that it is an intentional double entendre in that it means different things to the two different audiences, and skillfully manipulates the first audience to sound self-incriminating the second audience.  The third manipulation is that both agency owners and legislators are probably not fully aware of the extent to which state and federal laws protect children and screen who is allowed to work with them.  

In real life, a pediatrician is unlikely to agree to a plea, unless there is some sort of diversionary agreement that expunges the plea from the record after a length of time.  A conviction of this type is a "careeer-ender".  As such, if the good doctor were real, he would be likely to fight it with everything he has.  In real life, the women would be unlikely to accuse him, even if he were guilty, because it would destroy his ability to earn a living--and consequently his ability to pay alimony and child support.  I have heard from relatives involved in family law practices that in the case of professionals, allegations of this type may come out in the divorce.  But, both sides will seal and agree when the fight is over; neither party to the divorce wants an outside party to come in and destroy his or her source of income.  In support of the agency owners, the fact the fictitious pediatrician is allowed to continue his practice mitigates the damages of the admitted pleas; easily excusable as things said in the heat of the moment.

My advice to agency owners:  If you get a letter of e-mail of this type, reply by asking questions that seek to clarify the situation.  It's sort of like approaching a yellow light on a highway:  Approach with caution.  You shouldn't go full speed ahead, and it's a bad idea to stop as well.  The Equality NOW gang did not appear to be equipped to engage in a dialog.  Further clarification would have forced their fictitious doctor to take a more defined position.  If he were real and it were done with some sensitivity, you would have earned a very loyal customer.

[Art]

... in response to "Violent Men", posted by pablo on Jul 2, 2005

Under currents in civil societies.  They are anti-family.
Pro-Abortion extremists who make their living writing negative articles about how men are unworthy and the only happiness a woman will ever find is in the loving arms of another woman.

These ladies hide behind a thin veil of corruption and undermind the very fabric of America.  

If these ladies were really so concerned about these women in 3rd world countries well then they'd move there and voice there concerns to the country of their choice..

Instead, they attack men and seek support for their agenda which is grossly slanted in the demise of civilization.

These women are no doubt on the FBI watch list for terrorist activism... Or should be.

[doombug]

... in response to "Violent Men", posted by pablo on Jul 2, 2005

[This message has been edited by doombug]

"Seems like the sisters over at our beloved Equality Now organization have been doing a little reseach on how willing the 'mail order bride' companies will provide services to violent men."

Aint my sisters.  I work with and have met some decent AW's in many places, but these kind of "sisters" are entrapment cons, truth twisters, and cultural belligerents.  The wording in their bogus letter is illusive and hints at guilt only after you're aware that it's a fake written by a group of seemingly spiteful feminists.  

The "pediatrician" stated that he:
"...EVENTUALLY [my emphasis] pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct."

Read it through unbiased eyes, and it might come off as if this doctor had given in to the pressure of a lengthy/costly trial and simply plead out.  Yet, to nothing more than disorderly conduct???  That's like admitting to being a public nuissance.  Having a spout on the street or in a bar with your wife/novia after discovering infidelity would qualify as much. (To saner, fairer minds, of course).  Were the agencies (or lawmakers in Washington--wink, wink) supposed to equate "disorderly conduct" with "assault" (or something worse)?  Were they to assume he meant "immediately" plead guilty instead of "eventually" plead guilty?  

Their letter ploy was poorly choreographed.  The letter itself read as if written by a moderately intelligent teenager, not a doctor.  Then again, we have "Doc" Aaron "representin'," so maybe this isn't such an oversite.  Nonetheless, the letter offered plenty of phrases that hinted at his good character and innocence.  For one, they threw in the line about him being a pediatrician conducting research on HIV in children.  If they'd left this out--or, instead, made him a mill worker from Georgia--an even greater percentage of the agencies might have declined.   Such doubt is compounded even further by his mentioning "accusations" of assault by the ex-wives, instead of outright convictions.  HUGE difference, especially considering a deep-pocketed pediatrician stands accused.

These feminist wonks intentionally injected much doubt as to whether or not he was TRULY a bad apple.  They baited the agencies with the promise of garnering a wealthy client, but left in the very phrases/adjectives that hint at potential innocence.  It served their need:  In the end, they get to cry to the media and policy big-wigs how victorious they were in outing the MOB industry.  Maybe they'll even get Meryl Streep to autograph those cute shirts on their website.  
 
Today, the Women's Movement is a parable of a spoiled child run loose in a toy store with her drunk daddy's wallet in hand.  These women are the most spoiled in the world; they have--or can have--nearly anything they want.  They have protections that cater to them; most everyone (i.e. juries) still sympathizes with the word of a woman over that of a man; and how rare is it to find women "turning coats," siding with men in reflecting on how imbalanced the favoritism has grown.  Eventually, it will become financially prudent for every male to undergo a sex-change operation to get ahead.

In any event, the letter illustrates one group of scum conning another group of scum.  Pander to either at your own risk.

A true Men's Movement--with teeth.  That's what is needed.  Someone with the gall of Michael Savage, and the hype of Al Sharpton.  Otherwise, the fem hags growing Prohibition-like effort--this effort to prevent men from marrying foreigners--will be another shiny trophy on their mantel.  The agencies will take a while to topple, though.  The fem brigades need still more Hollywood A-list actresses.  

Chivalry in America is dead, dudes!  Cash in your chainmail and armor at the scrap yard.  

A reprint of Mi' Lady's deed:
(from the PDF'd version at the fembot's site)

"I have visited your website and am very impressed by your services. I am VERY interested in working
with you. I have learned about the problems of modern American relationships the hard way, having
been twice married to modern women who were too involved in their careers and my bank accounts.
However, I have not given up on the hope that I will one day find a woman who will really love me
and care for me forever. Let me give you some background on myself, and ask you a couple of
questions. I am a successful pediatrician and have had over 30 articles published in medical journals,
most focusing on my research on children living with HIV. I have two children and would love to have
more. Even though I make a substantial amount of money, much of it is now tied up in alimony and
child support payments. Also, my ex-wives both accused me of assault. I eventually pleaded guilty to
disorderly conduct. Will these problems affect my chances? Will you still help me find happiness?
Sincerely, Charles V. North, MD"

[Disclaimer:  I've never married an AW, never had kids with one, and never plan to do either.  Furthermore, I don't work for an agency, never used one, and never intend to do either.  So, my opinion on the matter is strictly from what I've observed and discovered.  Both parties involved--the feminist groups and MOB agencies--are potentially nefarious, certainly self-serving, and definitely NOT inclined to care whether or not you leave this world a happy chap.]

[doombug]

... in response to Entrapment and deceit , posted by doombug on Jul 2, 2005

[This message has been edited by doombug]

By the way, one of the members on Equality Now's Advisory Council:

Gloria Steinem

This organization is eagerly trying to put a halt to a man's "human right" to **** (engage in physical intimacy) without a lawyer's presence.  

A few of their recent campaigns are aimed at putting a halt to prostituion in OTHER COUNTRIES, asserting that it breads human trafficking.

"U.S. military personnel, as consumers of prostituted women, are effectively and substantially contributing to the demand for sex trafficking."

"United States: The Role of Military Forces in the Growth of the Commercial Sex Industry"
http://www.equalitynow.org/english/actions/action_2301_en.html

If anything, they're contributing to the affinity for foreign women over AW's.

A few other campaigns of note:

"Hawaii: Legislation Passed to End Sex Tourism and Hold Sex Tour Operators Accountable"

"Sex Tourism: Big Apple Oriental Tour Operators Indicted for Promoting Prostitution"

"Japan: The Death of Maricris Sioson" [a bit dated; and occurred in Japan]

Essentially, an endeavor by AW's to prevent AM's from going abroad to so much as wink at a foreign woman.  

Look forward to the day when this hits the headlines:

"28th Ammendment to the United States Consitution Passes!"

"The assumed right of any male citizen to engage in a romantic affiliation with a woman from any other nation is now, and will forever be, rescinded."

[AmBrazilian]

... in response to follow up to the compost from EN, posted by doombug on Jul 3, 2005

Time to go expatriot if it happens.

[doombug]

... in response to Re: follow up to the compost from EN, posted by AmBrazilian on Jul 3, 2005

Judging by your username, it looks like you might already be planning a expat life.

I certainly am.  Retirement can't come fast enough.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: follow up to the compost from EN, posted by doombug on Jul 3, 2005

I'm with you, John.

Have you corresponded with anyone in Peru lately, any new candidates?

I still have some info to share with you from our latest trip concerning beach houses, etc.

[doombug]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: follow up to the compost fro..., posted by Red Clay on Jul 3, 2005

No candidates, as I've gone into full retreat.  I don't consider it a loss though, as I really liked Peru (especially the food).

Still want to live somewhere in LA some day.  But, as everything's changed, this won't happen for quite a few years now.

Thanks for the offer of info., though.  

I can't express how much I truly envy you guys (those with Peruvian wives/novias).  From what I recall and have read here, you've met some great women, and are probably in a state of perpetual bliss.

[Jamie]

... in response to Entrapment and deceit , posted by doombug on Jul 2, 2005

""...EVENTUALLY [my emphasis] pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct."
Read it through unbiased eyes, and it might come off as if this doctor had given in to the pressure of a lengthy/costly trial and simply plead out."

Only if it happened once in this case it happened twice.
You do have 3 agencies that outright said they would not do business with the guy should have been more.

I accept your conclusion.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

[AmBrazilian]

... in response to Interesting Experiment on Marriage Agenc..., posted by Jamie on Jul 2, 2005

Just because it happened twice doesn't mean he is abusive. If his wife and lawyer from the first marriage decided to lie about him being abusive then you can surely bet that in the second one the lawyer would do the same to gain court advantage and stick him for more child and possible alimony support.

[Michael B]

... in response to "Violent Men", posted by pablo on Jul 2, 2005

I see they even quoted Patrick.

[AmBrazilian]

... in response to "Violent Men", posted by pablo on Jul 2, 2005

Pretty sad how some of these agencies tell the man he will be happy with a gentle foreign bride. Try abusing a Latina and you will find yourself dis-membered while in your sleep or if she is not afraid charge you on the spot. One stated that he was welcome to join, but Chinese women will not except screaming, and expect the man to listen and pretty much nod their head in agreement. Doesn't sound like Chinese women are weak like the feminist proclaim. Still after reading the letters makes you realize you have more honesty from a used car salesman.

The feminist agenda is bad also because they write the letter he was accused of abuse in his past relationships. This happens all the time especially in divorce after the lawyers tell the women to file false accusations. I'm sure that the wife's lawyer would use this to gain more money and custody of children, but not over push where he loses his medical license and high paying job. Lawyer's don't want him to lose all that gravy child support and alimony for their clients.